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Subject: Daibukan dojo (Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu)


Author:
Liam Graham
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Date Posted: 14:11:27 06/08/04 Tue

Just curious what people know and / or think about the Daibukan: http://www.daibukan.com/

Ohgami Sensei was a student of Hisa Sensei, who received the Menkyo Kaiden from Sokaku Takeda Sensei. Hisa Sensei was one of only 2 people who received the Menkyo Kaiden from Takeda Sensei, the other being an honorary recipient. Takeda's own son, Tokimune Takeda, did not receive the Menkyo Kaiden: but according to Stanley Pranin, this is because he is the inheritor of the system and needs no rank.

What does this mean for Daito Ryu, with a branch under Tokimune Takeda Sensei as hereditary grandmaster, and a branch descended from Hisa Sensei, who received the Menkyo Kaiden from Sokaku Takeda? (And I know that succession in Daito Ryu, especially since Tokimune Takeda Sensei's death, is hotly contested anyway).

Also, Ohgami Sensei received a 'kyoju dairi' (teaching license), but not a Menkyo Kaiden, from Hisa Sensei ... what are the intricacies of the differences between these certificates? Was Hisa Sensei unable to confer a Menkyo Kaiden to Ohgami Sensei (whom he promoted to 8th dan) due to not being the inheritor of the system?

At one time, one of Ohgami Sensei's Yudansha students mentioned the possiblity of starting a Daito Ryu study group in Seattle (he has family here, and was visiting for the month of March 2004) ... this was posted in the Daito Ryu section of the Aikido Journal's bulletin board. I didn't see it until recently. It would be interesting if a study group of this nature was to gain a foothold ...

Anyone: post some comments, thoughts, ideas, opinions, experiences! I'd appreciate any of them as I try to dig into the variety of Aiki arts, their histories and lineages.

Respectfully,
Liam

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[> Subject: Re: Daibukan dojo (Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu)


Author:
Corey Minatani
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Date Posted: 23:50:15 06/09/04 Wed

Liam:

Good questions. The meaning is nothing, as far who is more legitimate than the other. The Menkyo Kaiden is the highest award one can receive in the older kyoju dairi license programs. If Hisa gained (or was observed) as an 8th degree as well, this is great, but it is relatively just a footnote compared to the Menkyo Kaiden. For example, Uyeshiba received only a Kaiden rank, but issued to Tohei Sensei an 8th degree sometime in 1960s, which was the highest at the time, and Tohei eventually became the first 10th dan before the founder's passing.

Tohei, like Hisa's skill, was definitely more technical and applicable. For example, not only did Tohei have more seniority and skill than Uyeshiba's sons, he was simply a better instructor to some degree. Many people (Tohei interview in Aikido Journal) went to train with Tohei after he essentially got booted from the Aikikai, and were sent home packing with their tails between their legs. One should remember that Tohei acted rash during challenges against karateka, judoka, and laymen and easily sent them all to the mat. Tohei was doing UFC stuff with aikido before Gracies and NHB fighters way back in the day.

Hisa, being more reserved than Tohei in the realm of challenges, probably had the skill, no doubt. This is not to suggest that Tokimune line was skillless, but Hisa line might have been organized and more logically based as far as teaching methodology goes. Now, there might be an argument for the Tokimune line saying that the founder will teach all the "real Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu" stuff to his son. Yeah, maybe that is true, but it depends upon how much time Tokimune had to train, and if Sokaku had enough teaching ability to make his son absorb in a short period of time before his death.

For example, Hisa could have taken years, with no stress about timeframes to learn the material. So he could think, analyize, etc., and make comments or ask questions if problems came up. Tokimune might have the technical base, but not have enough experience or time to ask all the questions that could be answered by Sokaku. In any event, one should learn from both, but the idea of seeking a "more pure" line is silly in the sense as what is pure? Techniques change from year to year, from uke to uke. Having more experience will yield more techniques.

Bottom line, you choose, but both are legitimate and valid, both are a valuable resource.

Corey

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