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Date Posted: 04:53:46 11/16/02 Sat
Author: Mike-30Oct02
Subject: Re: Avatars etc.
In reply to: ketch-30Oct02 's message, "Avatars etc." on 04:52:55 11/16/02 Sat

Ketch,

How long shall we torture logic here?

I always found Lahiri Mahashay saying he was one with Kabir and Brahman a stretch, when told it meant he was Kabir(an enlightened man) in a past life. It is always the disciples that say things like he was an incarnation of Kabir.

Lets look at Avatars and the Kabir Lahiri connection found in AOY.

"'For more than three decades I have waited for you here—waited for you to return to me!' Babaji's voice rang with celestial love. 'You slipped away and vanished into the tumultuous waves of the life beyond death. The magic wand of your karma touched you, and you were gone! Though you lost sight of me, never did I lose sight of you! I pursued you over the luminescent astral sea where the glorious angels sail. Through gloom, storm, upheaval, and light I followed you, like a mother ...

An avatar is unsubject to the universal economy; his pure body, visible as a light image, is free from any debt to nature. The casual gaze may see nothing extraordinary in an avatar's form but it casts no shadow nor makes any footprint on the ground

"'My son,' Babaji said, embracing me, 'your role in this incarnation must be played on an outward stage. Prenatally blessed by many lives of lonely meditation, you must now mingle in the world of men.


May I say that Kabir was well known in his time and mingled in the world of men. His own poems and verse show that he was already enlightened, far transencding the astral plane, and his Guru is stated by him as a well known guru of his time, not the mysterious Babaji. Why would Babaji ever say that the magic wand of his karmas touched him, if he were the already enlightened Kabir? Everyone wants to claim Kabir, Kriya Yogis claim him, Kundalini yogis such as Muktananda claim him, Sant Mat Gurus claim him. What easier way than to say Lahiri Mahashay was his incarnation. There is so much nonsense and myth in Kriya Yoga that has absolutely nothing to do with the practice of Kriya Yoga that only go to add more superstition and belief in an attempt to show the universality of Kriya in order to convince people it is the true path.

As far as Buddha being an Avatar, he of course never claimed such a thing. When asked if he was a God, Demon etc he always answered no. Finally when asked who he was, he simply stated that he was awakened. His Avatarhood was bestowed upon him by Hindus in an attempt to absorb Buddhism into Hinduism. Your idea and quote that Arya Mission is equated to SRF still falls short of being accurate. Why? Because even now that branch has living Masters of the tradition. I believe SRF claims that after Yogananda there would be no more enlightened teachers, just an organization carrying out the wishes of the great ones.

You may have the last word in all of this Ketch. It is a matter of belief and faith, and we see things due to our own needs to be convinced. I appreciate your measured responses and that you did not react in a vedictive way. You are always even handed in your actions on this board in my opinion. Take care.

Mike

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