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Date Posted: 04:55:26 11/16/02 Sat
Author: Hendrik-30Oct02
Subject: Re: Avatars etc.
In reply to: Mike-30Oct02 's message, "Re: Avatars etc." on 04:53:46 11/16/02 Sat

I always found Lahiri Mahashay saying he was one with Kabir and Brahman a stretch, when told it meant he was Kabir(an enlightened man) in a past life. It is always the disciples that say things like he was an incarnation of Kabir.

Not exactly. Once more: In his notebook - as published by Satyeswarananda - Lahiri Mahasaya wrote:

69. Who is Kabir? He is sun, and he is Brahma, myself.

70. In Satyayuga Lahiri Mahasay was born as Satyasukrita, in tretayuga he was Munindra; in dwaparayuga Karunamaya; and in kaliyuga he was Kabir. Later, he became Shyama Charan.

The first one could be dismissed as a mythological allusion, but the second one?

Then there is Satyananda's story:

When I was a boy, I was once in the company of the venerable Bhattacharya Mahasaya. I heard him say, "The Lord was Kabir," And Bhattacharya Mahasaya also said that the Lord Himself had stated this. [...] whether He was intoxicated with Kabir, was He born as a part of Kabir or did He incarnate as Kabir in a previous life - which of these Bhattacharya Mahasaya was trying to let people know I have not understood.

This is the statement of a disciple, he does not claim that Lahiri Mahasaya was Kabir, but that Lahiri himself believed so and said so, overheard by one of his principal disciples. At least in the first part, whereas in the second part of the quote Satyananda seems to partly contradict himself.

I do not see why this should be a "matter of belief and faith" -- it is a matter of authenticity of sources. Belief and faith come in as soon as there is interpretation of original material.

If someone would finally publish Lahiri Mahasaya's notebooks we could see for ourselves and not have to trust Shibendu and Ashoke Chatterjee who interpret his notes according to their own convictions and motives. Interpretation is all right, but not if the interpreter at the same time holds back the sources. It is like the medieval priests who taught Christian doctrine, but no one else was able to check this as they either did not have the original material or could not read Latin or not read at all. Their aim was to erect a doctrine that cannot be falsified by counter-evidence. 'Do not ask. All of us who hold the truth tell you the same thing: "Jesus and the Church are the only one and supreme truth. There is no other truth. Everything else is delusion and the devil's work.'

Shibendu by withholding the sources, which he owns, is, as I see it, doing quite the same (the psychological mechanism is exactly the same), though making use of different pretexts.

His first excuse is that family lore should not be made public. But why then did Lahiri Mahasaya take care himself to have his writings published, and this in his last, 'enlightened' years? Surely it is no family lore. - Another excuse is that these notes would misguide people -- which makes me wonder all the more what may be in there.

This secret-mongering produces the opposite of what may have been intended: Something that is locked up in a casket gives easier rise to speculation and mystification than something that lies open under the sun.

Hendrik

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Replies:

  • Re: Avatars etc. -- ketch-30Oct02, 04:56:27 11/16/02 Sat
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