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Date Posted: - Tuesday - 06/27/06 - 1:42pm
Author: Will Holoman
Author Host/IP: host2.brwncald.com / 65.198.3.2
Subject: Oversize mizzen
In reply to: Mark 's message, "Taller Mizz." on - Sunday - 06/18/06 - 6:12pm

Our Mariner 31 has an oversized mizzen mast and boom. I'm not sure if the headroom has been increased as I didn't do the modification. I can tell you that the oversized mizzen helps only in the lightest winds. Once the wind pipes up over 10 knots or so, I start sheeting out the sail, then reef, then douse it altogether at 18+ knot winds. I know it's time when I get excessive lee helm. I don't think the oversized mizzen is an important modification to this boat.

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Replies:

[> [> [> Mizzen and Lee Helm -- Bill Kranidis, - Wednesday - 06/28/06 - 12:26pm (ool-18bd4a0e.dyn.optonline.net/24.189.74.14)

Will,

I suppose you're talking about sailing to windward. If you get an increasing Leehelm, you should utilize your mizzen. Instead of reefing it and finally dousing the sail altogether, this is the time where the mizzen becomes vital in keeping the bow to the wind. Think of the dynamics of wind against the sail area. You remove the mizzen and the COE moves way forward.....result, Leehelm.

Best,
Bill

[Edit]
[> [> [> [> Lee or Weather? -- Randall, - Wednesday - 06/28/06 - 2:11pm (64-161-221-132.opentable.com/64.161.221.132)

Actually I agree w/Will's description, except for the reference to ***lee*** helm. For me it's ***weather*** helm.

In moderate winds (say, 10 knots, +/-) when climbing to windward, I often find the mizzen contributes enough to weather helm to neutralize its benefit. I.e. w/it up the bow wants to climb into the wind, and so correcting helm is required, where as w/it down in winds like this nearly no helm is needed. Speed through the water is about the same in either case.

This is only the case when one is really climbing uphill in moderate winds. With the wind freer, the relationship is less delicate. I.e. on or around the beam, I can carry full sail deep into the day and just plow away. In really light stuff, nothing helps.

RR

[Edit]

[> [> [> [> [> Lee Helm in "strong winds" -- Bill Kranidis, - Wednesday - 06/28/06 - 7:12pm (ool-18bd4a0e.dyn.optonline.net/24.189.74.14)

Hey, Randall.....

What I described to Will is the advantage of the mizzen beating in "Strong" winds. Without the mizzen the sailplan is very much forward and leehelm is almost guaranteed. What the mizzen will do in such conditions is bring the bow closer to the wind. At least that's what worked for me :-)

Bill

[Edit]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Gotcha! -- Randall, - Thursday - 06/29/06 - 3:05pm (64-161-221-132.opentable.com/64.161.221.132)

I'll have to try that. I must admit I've not noticed much lee helm when close hauled, but then we don't get very strong winds here in San Francisco Bay. hee hee :)

[Edit]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Lee helm? -- Will Holoman, - Thursday - 06/29/06 - 7:34pm (host2.brwncald.com/65.198.3.2)

My wheel has a brass cap on the handle that points upward when the rudder is straight. As the wind pipes up, I have to compensate for the mizzen by turning the brass cap toward the downwind side of the boat (port on a starboard tack). Is this lee or weather helm?

I know it's time to reef (or douse) when the cap points straight down.

[Edit]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> lee vs weather -- Randall, - Thursday - 06/29/06 - 8:40pm (c-69-181-46-182.hsd1.ca.comcast.net/69.181.46.182)

Think of it this way. On a close reach, if the bow wants to go into the wind (to weather) and you need to employ helm to correct this, that correction is weather helm. Conversely, if the bow tends to move off with the wind, and you need to employ helm to correct it, that's lee helm.

My guess is the term originated when tillers were the rule. So, if you have to pull the tiller to windward to keep your course, it's weather helm; to leeward, it's lee helm.

What you describe above is weather helm.

(It's confusing.)

RR

[Edit]

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