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Date Posted: - Monday - 01/23/06 - 1:19pm
Author: Randall
Subject: Panic

Very successful weekend.

Got the cockpit sole out (half of it was rotten) and the framing popped out easily too, too easily. Not really jointed so much as jammed together and glued. Bad rebuild at some point in the past.

Then in a fit of idealistic perfectionism, also removed the starboard cockpit sideboard, which had some dark wood.

Suddenly there is no cockpit to speak of--just a really big hole. Granted, it has nice clean lines, as holes go, but yikes! Have I gone too far? What looked like a simple job suddenly is a vision of Beowolf snarling! Should I toss in the hammer and buy an old Hunter?

Hoping a sense of panic is more or less common in situations like this... :)

RR

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Replies:

[> Don't loose your cool !!! -- Bill Kranidis, - Monday - 01/23/06 - 1:59pm

Take a deep breath and start measuring :-)

The first 100 hours are the pain in the ass. It gets kind of enjoyable after that.

Now....get back to work.

Bill

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[> [> Bill, your'e the best! -- GeneVT, - Tuesday - 01/24/06 - 10:01am

If my wife and I had the courage to do this kind of repair,
your words of encouragment would have been EXACTLY what we would have needed!!

Best wishes to all.

Gene & Donna

"SANDPIPER" T/MC36

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[> [> [> You're very kind, Gene -- Bill Kranidis, - Wednesday - 01/25/06 - 10:45am

A project like that can get very defeating at first glance. Once you start though, it's a breeze. Alot of work, but also very rewarding.

Best to you my friend.

Bill

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[> Breathe Deep -- Mark, Aeolus, - Wednesday - 01/25/06 - 7:35pm

Hats off to ya Randall,you've done the hard part(starting).Now the fun begins, for some inspiration check out my pics on the owners pg.M31 Aeolus #62,(Bill doesn't show she has pics but the're there)
Good Luck!
Mark

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[> [> Oooops......sorry, Mark -- Bill Kranidis, - Thursday - 01/26/06 - 12:05am

correction has been made.

Bill

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[> [> Breathing better, but cold sweats persist... :) -- Randall, - Monday - 01/30/06 - 11:50pm

Thanks for the comments guys.

I am clearly entering where angels fear to tread. And not just because I’ve now ripped out all four cockpit sides either. I suspect that the old motor cruiser next to me which is closely wrapped from cabin top to waterline in a blue plastic tarp is more than just a sad and derelict live aboard. Each weekend now for three I’ve buried myself in Murre’s cockpit, and each weekend there has been a steady stream of visitors to this odd yacht.

One by one throughout the day they approach and gently lift the tarp, entering without so much as an ahoy. They’re always local live-aboards, and it may help to understand that though this marina is with in spitting distance of the freeway, it is of the off-the-beaten-path variety. On the boat in question there is a second brown tarp under the blue one, so I never get any view inside. And I rarely see anyone leave. What is one to think? Is this a floating opium den? Is it a miniature, run down Mustang Ranch? If the latter, it’s awfully quiet in there. Maybe my habit of turning on Public Radio is putting an undo damper on the festivities? I am half tempted to yell “POLICE, POLICE, RAID!” just to see what will happen.

The stern and starboard cockpit sides are back on. I’ve made a bulkhead out of the stern piece, taking it down to the hull for extra stability. Am using ¾ Okume ply and 1 ¾ x 1 ¾ Santa Maria for framing. Plenty of glassing to come later.

The fuel tank is out and on the dock, but I haven’t figured what to do about its replacement. This shocks my girlfriend who can’t understand how I’d start such a job without having a solution for this important problem in hand, so I’ve been reticent to tell her that my only research thus far has turned out to be a dead end. After a moment’s pause, the harbor master recommended I talk to a heavily bearded local named Crispy who lives aboard Great Scott, a rusty old Colin Archer ketch across the slough. I found him behind the bar at the bate shop, and my first thought was that Crispy was an entirely apt name--I think he’s done all the inhaling our former president swore not to, and thus far has never exhaled at all. When I asked if he’d weld me up an aluminum fuel tank, I got a big long laugh, and then a rambly conversation about how he was in the middle of doing laundry (an annual event I’m guessing by the state of his overalls), the poor construction quality of new outboard motors, and how he needed to make a run in Sucker as soon as the dryer stopped. All this by way of saying my idea was a bad one. Sucker, I learned, is the name of the local pump-out boat.

So, for the moment, the pitted, old tank sits on the dock beside Murre looking about as happy and useful as a sclerotic liver.

That’s my report for today.

RR

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[> [> Mark, thanks for the photos. -- Randall, - Tuesday - 01/31/06 - 12:03am

Especially like the "samson posts" at the stern.

Any notes you care to share on the process of replacing the aft cabin structure would be greatly appreciated.

RR

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[> [> [> Cold Sweat -- Mark,Aeolus, - Thursday - 02/ 2/06 - 5:24pm

Hey Randall if I can be of help with the bulkhead let me know. be fore-warned it was 17 yrs. ago.You'll need to remove the coamings if the're not off. The other main problem I had, was the removal at the teak hatch. If I remember right it's got a blind fastener from above, I had a hell of a time! Also take a couple of horiz. measurements pt. to pt. at the top and bott. of the aft cabin sides (mine expanded alittle).The samson post were inspired from the yacht "Tar Baby". Good Luck!
Mark

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[> [> Fuel Tank -- Wes, - Friday - 02/ 3/06 - 10:29am

Hea Randall,
Maybe I can help repay you after all for the rigging spec work. I replaced our old iron tank last year with a 55 gallon aluminum tank from west marine. It fits perfectly with a little wood work to form a cradle. You loose about 1.5-2 inches of depth in the cockpit sole due to the vent and fill connect, but hea the extra 20 gallons of fuel (especially in baja) is worth it.

Look under "Engine Systems" in WestMarine.com and they have several tanks to choose from including 30, 40, 55 gallon varieties. They are pricey, but as I found out, way less expensive than a custom one I was quoted.

The bonus of these tanks is they include a sending unit to tie into a fuel gauge which is much easier than the "dipstick" meathod of the old tank. You will have to add a "fill" cap somewhere on the deck, but this is perfect timing since you are rebuilding the cockpit and sides anyway.

I hope to someday get the project in a format for Bill to post under the "project" heading on this site. Stay tuned...

Let me know if I can provide any further info...
Hope this helps
Wes

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[> [> [> Thanks for the lead, but... -- Randall, - Monday - 02/ 6/06 - 3:27pm

Wes, all the tanks I find at WestMarine are rectangular, including the 55 gal you refer to. Is that right? Murre's current tank is a 40 gal, but is "radically" tapered to fit the space behind the engine. Can't see how that 55 gal tank is gonna fit... Am I missing something?

RR

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[> [> [> [> Fuel Tank Modification Considerations -- Wes, - Tuesday - 02/ 7/06 - 2:27pm

You aren't missing much because it is completely counter inuitive to think that that tank will fit. As long as your original cockpit well is with in a 1 inch similar dimension as mine things should fit.

You are correct on how the radical taper occurs on the old tank. The Westmarine tank tapers as well, not nearly as radical as the old one but enough to make it work.

It will involve building a "cradle" if you will, for the forward end (middle and aft more to secure the tank and add mid support) to keep it level. This is built on to and secured to the already in place braces/cross members that supported the old tank (The tank is also secured with a cross member and securing bolt on top to keep it sliding from forward to aft or vice versa, you might need to see photo's to get a real sense for this one).

I simply augmented a custom pretreated/watersealed Oak cradle and fiberglassed it in for extra reasurance. The Cradle is "padded" with a rubberized type material that won't (theoretically) break down or interact maliciously with aluminum so as to not allow the hard part of cradle to rub/vibrate its way through the aluminum (again theoretically). This needs to be accounted for no matter what tank you install.

I admit when I first purchased the tank, got it via UPS, took it out of the box, I was convinced it wouldn't fit when I got it to my boat 1500 miles away in Mexico. I figured at worst I would consider myself a lunatic (for even having such a silly notion) with a cold pacifico in one hand and a leaking iron tank beneath my bare feet that would just have to suffice. It still wouldn't change the perty sunset.

It did fit, albeit it is a snug fit. And actually fits perfectly to the lengthwise and width wise dimension of the cockpit sole (at least on Cool Change's cockpit), so it was a realitively easy install without demolishing the entire cockpit. I measured twice hoping to cut once and not have to haul the tank home, it worked!

You do have to compensate for the tank "fittings" on top of the tank and adjust the cockpit floor and loose about 1.5 - 2 inches in depth from the original. A decent compromise for me since fuel is on short order or difficult to obtain around baja, and limited deck space for spare fuel, water etc...

Pros:
-Larger tank capacity
-more cost efective than a custom tank
-fuel gauge sending unit included (need to purchase gauge)
-utilizing unused boat volume for something beneficial
-Fill port receiver along with vent is aft and you can lead fill hose to a convenient out of the way location, don't have to pull up grates anymore to fill.
-You can easily attach a "fill" warning device to prevent fuel overflow into surrounding water (or cockpit well).
-Much easier to install with cockpit disasembled.
-Any of the smaller tanks will definately fit.


Cons:
-Adds significant weight to the aft end of boat when tank is full (a consideration for the true sailor looking for performance).
-Cockpit well slightly shallower.
-You have to build in "access" ports to the cockpit well for access to hose connections, sending unit, etc... (I accomplished this by installing two 5 inch (? maybe 6 inch) watertight removable screw ports at each end of the cockpit well over the fittings, (routered out 3/8 inch circles in bottom of grates to accomadate ports so grates still sit flush)
-Aluminum tank
-More difficult to "polish" tank than the original (although access ports should work fine when getting to fittings).
-Still pricey.
-Takes up some access for the boat midget working on the shaft or transmission or aft end of engine or some thru hulls. You still have access, but the tank makes it slightly tighter to get to. (I am still able to access everything, it just takes some more work at flexibility and a willingness to suffer through the fiberglass abrasions).
-Need to adjust cockpit drain location slightly. But this is fine, I added much larger drains to compensate for the shallower well (in the event it fills unwantingly), and you need to rebuild the floor anyway.

I will try to get you photo's when I get to my other computer.

Hope this helps!
Wes

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[> [> [> Thanks for the lead, but... -- Randall, - Monday - 02/ 6/06 - 3:27pm

Wes, all the tanks I find at WestMarine are rectangular, including the 55 gal you refer to. Is that right? Murre's current tank is a 40 gal, but is "radically" tapered to fit the space behind the engine. Can't see how that 55 gal tank is gonna fit... Am I missing something?

RR

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