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Date Posted: - Tuesday - 05/ 2/06 - 7:42am
Author: Mike Anthony
Subject: Wood Rudder on a M-40
Good Morning All,
We have a Mariner 40 that we am trying to get ready to launch this summer. One of the things that I think I need to do is epoxy the rudder. I have been told that I should put a few layers of epoxy over the wood. Does anyone have any experience or advice on this subject. The rudder is in fair shape, I am just wondering if the epoxy will throw the weight off or somthing like that.
Thanks in advance for any help or advice.
Mike & Paula
S/V Tivoli
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Why would you need to? -- Randall, - Tuesday - 05/ 2/06 - 10:09pm
Interesting question.
When I hauled Murre (M31) for the first time, I was convinced (for reasons I now don't recall) that there was a largish spot of rot about 2 feet down on the rudder that would need dealing with. I expressed this to the yard boss as Murre was coming keel-up in the cradle, and he laughed at me, laughed out loud. "Boats in the big salt don't usual rot from underwater, now do they?" he said.
The rudder was good and hard after 32 years in service, and all I did (or have done since) was apply more bottom paint. I did epoxy (barrier coat) the HULL in 2003, but not the rudder.
I ‘d imagine our rudders are as vulnerable to worm as any wood on any wooden boat. But keeping the paint on is all that requires. And my suspicion is that glassing or barrier coating FULLY submersed wood could actually cause problems. For example, seems you’d have to guarantee the wood was bone dry before application (it’s saturated now) or risk blistering.
Water penetration into fiberglass is dangerous, but into wood is expected. That’s my understanding.
Curious to hear if others have felt this necessary.
RR
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Wood rudder on a Mariner 40 -- Doug Wilson, - Tuesday - 05/ 2/06 - 11:42pm
I found an old survey on "Cactus Tree" that recommended coating the rudder with West System epoxy. I don't know if it was done, but I just hauled out and the rudder looked good except for a small weep at the base.I was out for two weeks. The yard guys all said it looked good to them, they put a heat gun on it and painted it.
These guys were good, so I have to trust them.
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wood rudder on a 40 -- Mike Anthony, - Wednesday - 05/ 3/06 - 7:49am
Tivoli has been out of the water for aprox 4 years, the rudder appears to be in good shape, it is certainly bone dry. However, there are checks or gaps in the wood that will shrink as the wood swells Im sure. I only ask this question because I have had a couple of people say I should coat with an epoxy, I am not convinced that I should do it, hence the question here? I really do not know what to do here, my biggest concern is that it would throw off the balance of the rudder should I coat. Again any more advice would be greatly appreciated.
Mike & Paula
S/V Tivoli
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Randall Thanks -- Mike Anthony, - Wednesday - 05/ 3/06 - 8:04am
Randall, what you say makes a lot of sense, and unless there is some other compelling reason to coat, I guess I will just put plenty of bottom paint on.
Mike
S/V Tivoli
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So, what'd you do, Anthony? -- Randall, - Friday - 07/14/06 - 9:20pm
Anthony, I've been meaning to write back for a while to inquire. I also wanted to say that after your post and my reply, I saw several vintage boats (the likes of an old Pearson Wanderer, for example) with wooden rudders that HAD BEEN glassed over years ago.
None of them were blistered exceptionally as I thought they might be. On the one boat where the sheathing was intact, there were small blisters, but no more so than on the rest of the hull. Most often the rudders had areas where the glass had delamed and been pulled off altogether by the rush of water. Even the ones without delam were dripping.
So, it was clear that wrapping the rudder didn't cause damage, but I'm still hard pressed to see the benefit.
Some old boats in the yard have rudders on which the wood has begun to seperate along the grain, and sometimes by a wide margin. My bet is that sheathing is intended to add strength to an area that may be weakened by this. But given what I saw, keeping the sheething in tact seems to be a challange over time.
RR
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paint -- Mike, - Wednesday - 05/ 3/06 - 1:07pm
Call West Marine technical group, they have all the info on do's and don'ts
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M-40 Rudder -- Mike Anthony, - Sunday - 07/16/06 - 9:43am
After a great deal of research I am going to sand down the rudder, put on a good primer and 3 coats of a good bottom paint. Basically that is what I am going to do for the whole bottom. After looking into this, I think that often a barrier coat causes more problems and expense than it is worth. Could be wrong, however, Tivoli is over 30 years old, it was never done before and the bottom and rudder are in good shape. I am not going to start changing things now.
Mike & Paula
S/V Tivoli
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Epoxy -- John & Jan, - Monday - 07/17/06 - 3:00pm
I'm not sure how this would relate to the rudder, but I put on a layer of penetrating epoxy before I paint or varnish as a matter of habit. It helps seal the wood and certainly shouldn't change the "balance" of the rudder. Glassing is a whole different can of worms.
Cheers,
John
S/V Santa Teresa
San Diego
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M40 Rudder -- Peter Karczmar, - Tuesday - 08/ 1/06 - 9:56pm
Mike,
I'm not sure what would be the point of putting epoxy on the rudder. Salt water doesn't rot wood. You've seen our M40 which is 40 years old and the rudder is in great shape just with paint. I'd be concerned about the epoxy cracking as the wood expands.
Best regards,
Peter Karczmar
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