VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, [2], 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 01:29:10 06/13/03 Fri
Author: Lance
Subject: In reply to Johns response to my response to John's post HAHAAAA!!
In reply to: John 's message, "Hate Crime Laws" on 10:32:11 06/10/03 Tue

And you better pack a lunch! HAHA!



And you told ME to be gentle!! You're great at this! You could easily kick my ass with one arm tied behind your back, but I intend to cheat, lie, flirt, whatever it takes, (as usual) so you don't stand a chance! haha!


I appreciate you comments about Matthew Shepards death. *hugs* I can't begin to imagine how horrible it must have been for you to actually be there in Wyoming and hear everyone saying such awful things about him.

If there is one thing that really gets to me, it's people who disrespect his memory. He suffered enough.

I hope that he knows how much he is loved by so many people. How much he is mourned and how many times I've thought about who tiny and defenseless he was and I've wished I could have been there in that bar and stopped it. I guess we all do.

I have a friend, Brian, that looks so much like Matthew Shepard, its uncanny. I watch him sometimes, out on the dance floor, laughing and flirting, and I think about Matthew Shepard.


As to your responses to my responses to your 4 basic points - haha!.

I'm not here to debate the legality of Hate Crime Laws or the Constitution. The fact is, Hate Crime Laws exist to protect other minorities that experience extremely high instances of hate crimes EXCEPT gays.

If we could I would be all for rolling back the HCLs.

I respect that you feel that way. But you can't roll back HCLs and imho they will never be rolled back. The NAACP and the JDL aren't going to lie down for that.

Which brings us back to the question, why aren't gays protected under the HCL? If we look at the statistics, we can see that they have a disproportionately high instance of hate crimes, and were they any other group, would be protected. The only reason gays are not protected is homophobia on the part of our Congress.


Why do you or anyone feel that one person's well being or life is so much more valuable than anothers?

You asked me not to put words in your mouth, and I would ask you for the same consideration.


Why can't there be one law to cover all people equally, as we now have?
I'm sure on the Planet Perfect this plan would work, but here in the real world, as you very well know, one law does NOT cover all people equally because gays are second class citizens. All men are NOT created equal in the United States. We pay our taxes the same as everyone else, but we are not equal when it comes to laws.

Why special treatment?

I agree.

Why DO gays get special treatment?

Why do gays get special treatment when it comes to employment, being fired just because of our sexual orientation? Businesses openly fire LGBT employees, and every year, lesbians and gay men are denied jobs. The nation’s largest employer – the U.S. military – openly discriminates against gays and lesbians.

Why do gays get special treatment when it comes to parenting? Mothers and fathers still lose child custody simply because they are gay or lesbian. Gay men and lesbians are denied the right to be legally recognized as co-parents or to adopt children.

Why do gays get special treatment by being denied access to housing, hotels and other public accommodations?

Why do gays get special treatment when it comes to personal relationships? Why are gays not permitted to marry or have their domestic partnerships recognized? Why is there a failure to recognize lesbian and gay families?

Why do gays get special treament when it comes to law enforcement? Why are gays afraid to even report a crime to police when physically attacked, of their home's and car's vandalized?

Why do gays get special treatment when it comes to crime? Why are gays being murdered, physically attacked, harrassed, and having their home's and car's vandalized at such a disproportionate rate compared to the general population?

Why do gays get special treatment when it comes to sex laws? Why do gay teens face 18 year sentences for the same crime that a straight teen would get at most a year? Why do gay men in committed consenual relationships get arrested for having sex in the privacy of their own bed? Why is it a crime to have sex at all if you are gay?

Why do gays get special treatment when it comes to having an extra curricular club at school? Why do they have to go to court just to hold a meeting like all the other student clubs are allowed to do?


2. Laws were made to equally protect all of society. Oh get out!! HAHAA!! Come on!! You know better than that!

That isn't true!! Just off the top of my head, if you look at sodomy laws and age of consent laws, and you can see that these laws are NOT made to equally protect all of society. There are different laws for straight people than there are for gays. There are different punishments for the same offense for straight people than there are for gays.

We are discussing laws which DUPLICATE laws already on the books but impose a harsher penalty in some cases, on the perpetrator.

Blah blah blah. haha
I've already discussed this but I will reprint it here for benefit of clarity. Please just skip over it if you've already read it. And don't make me repeat myself again. Pay attention!! I'm the one with ADD. Do you have any idea who difficult this is for me! Jeeeeze!! HAHA.

OK - ONE MORE TIME! YEEEE HA!

Since 1995, the Republican-controlled Congress enacted more than 35 laws that create new federal crimes or impose new federal criminal penalties for conduct that is already criminal under state law. These laws address a wide range of issues from punishing "deadbeat Dads" to protecting Veterans' cemeteries to a bill signed into law on August 2, 2000, that protects animals used in law enforcement. The bill protecting animals used in law enforcement was considered so non-controversial that it sailed through the House by voice vote. Although criminal law is traditionally the domain of the states, Congress has regularly criminalized behavior in areas with broad national implications, including organized crime, terrorism, corporate fraud transcending state lines and civil rights. In fact, the federal government has enacted more than 3,000 criminal statutes since 1866, many of which have concerned civil rights.

::whew:: Got it?? OK Moving on. Head 'em Up! Move em out! RAWHIDE! HAHA ::cracks whip:: (sorry, couldn't resist.)

And by God, if emposing a harsher penalty for hate crime laws will help stop little johnie from getting the words "Faggot" carved into his stomach, then I don't give a fuck if they duplicate, triplicate, or quaduplicate laws. The fact is, there are many states that do not have any hate crime laws for sexual orientation. I ought to know. I live in one.

And you know what. I know two very prominent local gay rights leaders - one is president of Stonewall no less, and the other belongs to lambda. Both of them had the living shit beat out of them.

Here's what happened to the president of Stonewall, a man with so much intelligence and quiet dignity. Someone I respect so much.

"date - (his name), The President of Stonewall and an activist from (my city) was sent to the hospital after being beaten by two men in (another town that he was visiting in my state). Just before they began beating him, the two men reportedly said, “You’re a f***ing faggot, you wanna suck my c***?”

This language, this dehumanization of the victim because of his perceived sexuality is what makes this a hate crime. Does anyone think this crime had the same effect on his LIFE as a simple assault?

I can tell you that it didn't but that's how it was treated.

Someone, I think it was Chris, mentioned my friend who was beaten half to death just for waiting in line at Dennys after he had been out dancing. At the time of his assault, he was out and proud, wearing his eye liner and looking all hot. That asshole bashed his face to pieces, knocked out 4 teeth, broke his nose.

After his assault, he was so afraid, he dropped out of school (he was a senior. When he went back to school, he didn't got back to his old school, he transferred to my university. I recognized him because as an activist, I had visited his campus shortly after the beating to talk to him, but I found out that he wanted to be left alone and wasn't talking to anyone. Some of my friends on that campus pointed him out to me. He was sitting all alone in the grass on a little hill. I respected his privacy and left a note under his door saying if he ever needed anything, just call. When he showed up on our campus, my friend Martin who was v.p. of my gsa, and I, the president elect, went over to him to say hello and make him feel welcome. We introduced ourselves, and invited him to come to a GSA meeting.

He was scared to death to even be talking to us. He said, "get away from me. I dont want anyone at this school to know who I am or that I am gay. Leave me alone." He went from being an activist to trying to be invisable.

That's what a hate crime does to people. And the police wrote it up as just another bunch of rowdy drunk college students who got in a fist fight.


Why would you even try to equate that with abolishing laws for murder? My rationale for treating everyone equally under the law is in no way close to abolishing laws allowing people to go out and commit murder.

You said and I quote
2.They accomplish very little in the punishing or deterring of criminal actions, just as the death penalty doesn't deter homicides in the states that have a death penalty.

First you say they don't punish criminal actions yet you think its awesome if they add even one minute more to a hate crime punishment - so which is it? They punish more or the punish very little??

and second you said they don't deter criminal actions and I'm saying neither does having a law against murder. People in the heat of a crime don't stop and think, gee, it's illegal to murder someone.

whether or not they get the death penalty is not the point. the point is, it is against the law to commit murder. People who get caught will be punished in some harsh manner, whether it is prison term, a life sentence, or the death penalty. Having a law against murder doesn't PREVENT people from being murdered all the time so WHY bother to have a law against murder??



As to your beliefs that HCL will deter criminal acts against gays, I can only say that I respect those beliefs. But unfortunately that is all they are.

And that's only your opinion as well. You have your opinion and I have mine. I may respect your beliefs but I don't share them. Since we don't have a Federal Hate Crime Law, we'll never know if it could have saved Matthew Shepard's life, or any of those lives on those lists that me an Chris have posted.

The fact is, more hate crimes are being REPORTED because law enforcement started to keep better records, the FBI started keeping better records, people felt more comfortable going to the police as police depts (in some instances) stopped beating the crap out of the victims, and instituted programs to train police officers in the proper way to treat a hate crime.

John, you can't sit there and tell me that blacks still get lynched all the time like they did before. You can't tell me that blacks experience physical assaults as often as they did before (except in places like Cincinnatti).

Regardless of how many more hate crimes are REPORTED I firmly believe that having a federal hate crime law that protects blacks has had a very positive effect in reducing hate crimes such as burning crosses on a black person's lawn, assault, and murder. And I firmly believe that having a federal HCL that covers gays will help reduce hate crimes such as vandalizing gay people's property, assault, and maybe even murder. It will call attention to the fact that gays are targeted by hate crimes, educate the general public, it will send a message that the government of the U.S. will not allow gays to be targeted anymore, and parents will teach their kids not to mess with gays because its a federal offense, and THAT IS A DAMN GOOD THING! That alone is worth passing the federal HCL.


Since the first HCL were enacted in 1969, that means that crimes against gays should be way down since they have been around for 34 years.

There aint been no HCL that includes gays since 1969 where I live. I don't know what planet you come from, but its open season on gay people here.

(You done got me fired up now! LOOK OUT!! hahaha)

And if you want to know why hate crimes against gays keep going up and up, it is in direct response to the influence the religious fundamentalists have on our government. We have a fundamentalist in chief sitting in the White House. We have a holy roller lunatic running the Justice Dept. We have fucking homophobes like Trent Lott, Jesse Helms, and now Santorum standing up on the floor of the US Senate and declaring that we're all a fucking bunch of perverts, deviants, pedophiles, and every damn vile name they can come up with. The fundamentalists have stopped believing in Jesus and have made their new religion hateing and persecuting gays and the damn administration not only doesn't do anything about it - the president of the United States gets up and says he fully supports Rick Santorum for his remarks.

The Republicans and Fanatical Religious "Wrong" are responsible for the hate agenda in this country.

That's why fucking anti-gay hate crimes keep going up. The people who have been in congress since God was a little boy HATE GAY PEOPLE.

They're the reason why we don't HAVE a federal hate crime law right now. Bill Clinton talked until he was blue in the face trying to get a HCL passed after the death of matthew shepard and those hard hearted bastards in congress prolly threw a fucking celebration that another faggot died. If they could have, a few of them would have prolly participated in the beating.

But in your opening statement you stated that crimes against gays are increasing. So since you state that these crimes are increasing I can only gather that my statement about HCLs not deterring these crimes is a valid point.
well I'm glad I got to set you straight on that one! haha. As you can see, you gathered wrong as far as I am concerned. Don't presume to tell me what I'm talking about mister! haha.

The sentencing of these criminal acts under the HCL provision usually adds 1 year sometimes 2 to the sentence imposed. But since most lesser crimes allow for early release and parole, these added penaltys become miniscule at best.

And your point is???? No one here is very concerned about adding more to the sentence. We're concerned about having the Feds available to back up local law enforcement if they drop the ball. We're concerned about local rural police depts that have no money, no experience, and no desire to arrest and presecute a hate crime committed against a gay person. We're concerned for the victims who get a raw deal and want to take their case to the federal courts where they don't have to deal with sheriff joe bob homophobe. Thats what I'm talking about. I don't give a rat's ass about adding another year on someone's sentence -

However, I will say, this - take for instance the law's where if a crime is committed and a fire arm is used, they add a mandatory 5 years onto the person's sentence. Now if they committed a robbery at the local convenient store and used a knife, or just beat the crap out of the clerk, ISN'T IT STILL A ROBBERY? Why should the same exact crime carry an extra five years just because they held a gun instead of a knife or a baseball bat or whatever?? hmmm??
hahaa! Just thought I'd throw that in there for the hell of it.

And lastly, your statement about enforcing the law is probably the most significant.

In fact I think that's where the problem really lies. All the legislation in the world is useless if the laws aren't enforced. And for that topic I can't give any good solution since it relies on the integrety of law enforcement officials.

HOLD ON THERE JUST A COTTON PICKIN SECOND!! I beg to differ. With a federal HCL in effect, if the laws aren't enfored, then the Feds will step in and kick ass, I don't give a damn if the crisco kid is the head of the DOJ. He prosecutted the first federal hate crime case didn't he. Even ole holy roller knows he can't get by with not doing his job. He even backed down on the gay pride celebration. and you know why? BECAUSE HE IS AFRAID OF GAY PEOPLE AND HE DOESNT WANT US BUGGIN HIM ABOUT ANYTHING! He is so homophobic, he caves in everytime a bunch of queers get on his case. haha. He's a fucking coward, and a total moron.

::watches the steam coming out the ears of the feds monitoring this board!:: HAHAHA!

HEY - FUCK JOHN ASHCROFT!

heh heh

Let a gay man get arrested for speeding in some rural redneck county by a bigoted homophobe sherriff and I don't care what laws have been passed. Chances are that gay man is in serious trouble. I don't mean to sound frivolous but no laws will protect him. He will be at the mercy of his captors.

He might be at the mercy of his captors for a brief time, but when he gets away or when his loved ones collect his body, God forbid, there will be almight hell to pay and I guaran-damn - tee you that those bastards WILL be charged with committing a hate crime - something that can't happen right now.

The feds will be called in. They will be hot to trot over enforcing the brand new federal hate crime law. They will hold every kind of special investigation known to mankind. Ever last detail of that police dept will be taken apart six ways to sunday and all the dirt is going to come spilling out. Every donut they ever ate will become public knowledge.

The media will crucify the homophobes. The news will spread like wildfire around the whole damn world. They will be subject to federal charges and last but not least - when the smoke clears, and all the criminal charges have been prosecuted then the bastards will be subject to civil lawsuits and they will pay out their ass.


Lance's response:
3."I'm very suprised to see you using that argument, John."

HaHaHaHaHa! Nice try Lance, but please don't try to pigeonhole me with the wacko religious right wingers on this one. I gotta give you credit though. You do believe all is fair in these discussions. WHEN DO WE HEAR ABOUT THE WELFARE MOMS?

I thought you'd like that! HAHAHA!!

Lance's response:
"Hate crimes legislation would in no way limit freedom of speech much less thoughts. In order for hate crime legislation to be applied in a specific case, a criminal act must first be committed"

Check out the following and check the ref for further details.

*****In the followong examples words and phrases are used which are offensive to most but are included as part of the actual acts committed, so please do not think I condone the use of these words or adhere to their meanings. These are actual cases which contain the facts as presented.*****
blah blah blah.

because the son called neighbor Two a "cocksucker" and a "faggot.
and
"niggers" and "black motherfuckers."

How many times has any of us said things in the heat of an argument or fight that weren't really intended.

I can honestly say I've never ever in the heat of an argument called anyone any of the words used above. If you expect me to have any sympathy for these people, you've got the wrong person.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. People who use words like faggot when they are angry don't get anything from me except a punch in the face.

And people who use the "n" word to a black person, FUCK THEM. That's my opinion on this. I don't give a damn about them.

Well under the HCLs the above were prosecuted for what they said because it was their intent or thoughts that were interpreted.
I don't give a damn. They can cry me a river. Fuck 'em.

AND JUST WHO DO YOU WANT DEFINING WHAT YOU WERE THINKING WHEN YOU COMMITTED WHAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED AN UNLAWFUL ACT?

WTF? I'm not sure what you're yelling at me about! haha! But I will say those assholes in your examples had some sorry ass lawyers imho.


The above site shows another example of how similar crimes are treated differently. It's too lengthy to post here and I'm not trying to bore you.
sorry. didn't go look at it. maybe i will later if I get some time.

I just want you to be aware that thoughts play a very important part in determining whether or not a hate crime has been committed. There are numerous cases like these and I'd be happy to share them with you. So please don't say thoughts or speech are not involved in HCL. Let the case facts speak for themselves.

I didn't say that but thank you for putting words in my mouth. You and Geoff both like to "intrepret" what I say as though I'm not speaking plain and simple English.

Maybe I should try interpretive dance?? HAHAHA!

Allow me to repeat this and both of you read it very carefully. Don't put your little spin on it. It is very simple and very easy for everyone else to understand, so I'm sure if you both give it a shot, you will see that there are no hidden meanings. it says exactly what is says. nothing more. nothing less.

:: speaks loudly and veeeeeeery sloooooowly:: hahaha

Hate crimes legislation would in no way limit freedom of speech.

In order for hate crime legislation to be applied in a specific case, a criminal act must first be committed.

Preaching hatred against a particular group of people such as Jews, Afro-Americans, women, gays, lesbians, etc, or stating that God hates a specific group of people have always been protected forms of speech.

Such speech is in no way a criminal act.

Freedom of speech is protected under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

Now you can agree or disagree but don't tell me what I'm saying.


Sen. Robb might try reading some of these cases before misleading people with statements like you quoted. The neighbors dispute and criminal act itself was not motivated by hatred and wasn't a hate crime until certain words were uttered.

Tell it to Sen Robb. haha


Lance's response:
4."That is in essence blaming the victims. It's gay people's fault that they get targeted because they have in some way drawn attention to themselves?"

I stated that by demanding these fruitless and unfair laws, ("fruitless and unfair laws" HAHA! Nice try! That is YOUR opinion, not everyone else's and certainly not mine, so please don't state it like it is a fact.)

you put the gay community at the forefront and make them appear to be whining individuals who are demanding special treatment, which they are.
Oh are we? You know.... I say, fuck whoever says that. I don't give a shit what kind of opinion someone who already hates me pretends to have of me. I'm not out to make homophobes "like" me. I don't give a fuck if they ever like me or not because I don't like them, I don't respect them, and I'm not kissing their fucking ass just so they won't say I'm whiney. Let some fucking homphobic asshole say that to my face and they see how whiney I am! HAHAHAAAAAAA



This is used to influence and convince otherwise indifferent or borderline people to think gays are demanding special privileges and hurts the advancement of otherwise worthwhile causes, such as gay adoptions, gay marriages, etc.

oh puuuuullllleeeeeeeeeeze. John, you KNOW better than that! HAHA! Trying pull a fast one are you?? nope, not gonna let you by with it!

Dont sit there and tell me with a straight face, that getting a federal hcl passed through Congress - something that the American public, even the fucking Republican voters overwhelmingly favor, is in any way going to jeopardize equal rights for gays. I may be dumb but I'm not stupid! HAHA!


Lance's response:
"Whether or not you believe that a federal hate crime law would be any sort of deterent for the hiengous and vicious crimes that occure to queers, racial minorities, or women, I strongly believe that congress must move foward with a national standard as a statement to the United States that gays will be treated as equals, as human beings. "

So, you believe the way to get equality for gays ( which HCLs do not do) is to do it at the expense of denying other people their equal rights under the law? I'm sorry, but how about if we treat all people equally and punish the lawbreakers w/o all the added legislation?

Go back and read what I said and stop interpreting it and putting your own little spin on it. Don't put words in my mouth.

I said it was a statement from Congress to the United States, that gays will be treated as equals, as human beings.

Passing a federal HCL will send a VERY LOUD statement to every homophobe in this country, serving notice on them, that the days when gays can the bashed without recourse are over. It sends a message that gays are human beings, and not some sub human deviant second class thing to be used as a punching bag. It forces people to become educated. It forces parents to teach their kids not to bash gays.

It is a TOOL to help us eventually gain equal civil rights. A MASSIVE TOOL. It is a GIANT of a tool. When a federal HCL is passed to protect gays it will be HUGE. It will reverberate across this country and advance the cause of gay civil rights in ways we can't even imagine.

(did you like those word choices? HAHAA)


I would rather see time and energy spent getting legislation through that would help the millions of abused kids out there than worrying about tacking a year or two onto some criminal's sentence which as I mentioned earlier, wouldn't mean much in the end.

Whether or not we get a Federal HCL has nothing to do with whether or not millions of abused kids out there will get any help or not. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. There's no reason why we can't have both except the Republicans are in control. HAHA.

If you've been paying attention, you already know that "tacking a year or two onto some criminal's sentence" is not at all why I want a federal HCL.
But what the hell. If I don't list them all and spell it out, someone will say, "I don't understand what you mean." even though they know damn good and well what I mean.

So let's repeat it ONE MORE TIME:

Now did everyone get that this time?? Cuz from now on I'm going to copy and paste the whole thing evertime someone asks me why I want more prison time added to a life sentence. I don't see anything in that list about adding a year or two to a prison sentence, so don't put words in my mouth! HAHA!


And just as a side note: The murderers of Mattew Shepherd did receive the ultimate penalty with no assissatance from any HCLs.

As did the two murderers of of James Byrd in Texas.They all received the death penalty although Mattew's killer's sentences were reduced to life w/o parole upon the request of his parents.

But the fact remains that BOTH of these local law enforcement agencies BEGGED the feds to take over both of these cases because they didn't have the MONEY, the EXPERIENCE, the LABS, the MAN POWER, etc. etc. etc. and the fed's hands were tied BECAUSE WE DID NOT HAVE A FEDERAL HATE CRIME LAW. Both of those police depts lucked out and they both freely admit it. They were both scared to death that they were gonna fuck something up and blow the case.

Under the Local Law Enforcement Enhancement Act, (LLEEA) the FBI is allowed to step in and take over a hate crime case if local law enforcement requests that the Justice Department assume jurisdiction. This would take an enormous financial burden off small police depts trying to prosecute a big murder case.

So what HCL would have prevented either tragedy or increased the severity of punishment? NONE

We'll never know, will we?

I believe that every time we take a stand against homophobia, every time we do something, no matter how small it is like throwing a pebble into a calm lake. The ripples expand and grow and touch shores that we can't even see.

Who is to say? I think about Matthew Shepard and I hear the words his father spoke,
"You, Mr. McKinney, with your friend Mr. Henderson, killed my son.

By the end of the beating, his body was just trying to survive. You left him out there by himself, but he wasn’t alone. There were his lifelong friends with him—friends that he had grown up with. You’re probably wondering who these friends were. First, he had the beautiful night sky with the same stars and moon that we used to look at through a telescope. Then, he had the daylight and the sun to shine on him one more time—one more cool, wonderful autumn day in Wyoming. His last day alive in Wyoming. His last day alive in the state that he always proudly called home. And through it all he was breathing in for the last time the smell of Wyoming sagebrush and the scent of pine trees from the snowy range. He heard the wind—the ever-present Wyoming wind—for the last time. He had one more friend with him. One he grew to know through his time in Sunday school and as an acolyte at St. Mark’s in Casper as well as through his visits to St. Matthew’s in Laramie. He had God. I feel better knowing he wasn’t alone.

Matt became a symbol—some say a martyr, putting a boy-next-door face on hate crimes. That’s fine with me. Matt would be thrilled if his death would help others. On the other hand, your agreement to life without parole has taken yourself out of the spotlight and out of the public eye. It means no drawn-out appeals process, [no] chance of walking away free due to a technicality, and no chance of lighter sentence due to a “merciful” jury. Best of all, you won’t be a symbol. No years of publicity, no chance of communication, no nothing—just a miserable future and a more miserable end. It works for me.

My son was taught to look at all sides of an issue before making a decision or taking a stand. He learned this early when he helped campaign for various political candidates while in grade school and junior high. When he did take a stand, it was based on his best judgment. Such a stand cost him his life when he quietly let it be known that he was gay. He didn’t advertise it, but he didn’t back away from the issue either. For that I’ll always be proud of him. He showed me that he was a lot more courageous than most people, including myself. Matt knew that there were dangers to being gay, but he accepted that and wanted to just get on with his life and his ambition of helping others.

Matt’s beating, hospitalization, and funeral focused worldwide attention on hate. Good is coming out of evil. People have said “Enough is enough.”

You screwed up, Mr. McKinney. You made the world realize that a person’s lifestyle is not a reason for discrimination, intolerance, persecution, and violence.

This is not the 1920s, 30s, and 40s of Nazi Germany. My son died because of your ignorance and intolerance. I can’t bring him back. But I can do my best to see that this never, ever happens to another person or another family again. As I mentioned earlier, my son has become a symbol—a symbol against hate and people like you; a symbol for encouraging respect for individuality; for appreciating that someone is different; for tolerance. I miss my son, but I’m proud to be able to say that he is my son.

If anyone is undecided about whether or not you support a federal HCL, ask yourself, do the families of gays murdered because of who they were support a national HCL? Ask yourself, do the people who have been gay bashed, harrassed, had their property vandalized, support a national HCL?

The over whelming majority of gay people in America support a national HCL for gays. The overwhelming majority of straight people in America support a national HCL for gays.

To those of you who had your mind made up before this discussion started, I realize that NOTHING I can ever say or do will change your mind. But I do thank each and everyone of you for participating and allowing this issue to be explored and discussed.

Please feel free to continue to your heart's content, but play nice. This is a very emotional issue for me, and I'm sure it is for most everyone. Keep that in mind before you say something that hurts someone's feelings.

If I said anything in this post that offends anyone, tuff shit. hahahaa deal with it! haha.
*hugs everyone*

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

Post a message:
This forum requires an account to post.
[ Create Account ]
[ Login ]
Forum timezone: GMT-5
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.