I agree Lucy. Some may not like it but the fact is Starr and Cole would have never been in bed together that night if it were not for Todd's sudden and rash decision to move them all to Hawaii... OVERNIGHT! I am not saying he is entirely responsible but he certainly set the wheels in motion. -- The Official Kassie DePaiva Message Board

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Date Posted: 16:10:49 05/21/08 Wed
Author: tonya
Subject: I agree Lucy. Some may not like it but the fact is Starr and Cole would have never been in bed together that night if it were not for Todd's sudden and rash decision to move them all to Hawaii... OVERNIGHT! I am not saying he is entirely responsible but he certainly set the wheels in motion.
In reply to: lucy 's message, "I was so freakin' giddy when Blair declared to Starr from now on, Blair is in charge and she was going to make sure that starr is ok. I love seeing Blair in control like this. Its been while too long. Also, I have no problem with what Blair said about Todd today. Again, her guilt take over, and she began to think maybe if she killed Todd's idea about Hawaii from the get go, then Starr would not have rush off to meet with Cole at Langston's. Its very realistic for Blair to think what if." on 15:52:39 05/21/08 Wed

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[> [> Most of all, Blair did not say that Todd was responsible for Starr&Cole having sex. She just wondered if maybe she put her foot down about Hawaii, then maybe Starr would not have gone to see Cole at Langston's. Its going to be a long time before Blair forgives herself for not being there for Starr. However, she is doing her best now to make sure Starr knows she can count on her like she told Starr today they will think about what to do with the baby together. -- lucy, 16:24:24 05/21/08 Wed

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[> [> Oh, please!! Starr and Cole were in bed that night because they wanted to be. She got knocked up because they didn't use protection. That is not Todd's fault. So what he wanted to move to Hawaii, doesn't mean they have to sleep together. This storyline is dumb and insulting. No one is taking any responsibility for anything- they are just blaming Todd. I am so dissappointed in this storyline. Wake me up when Starr and Blair start acting mildly intelligent!!! -- Heather, 17:19:35 05/21/08 Wed

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[> [> [> Heather, Blair has been very intelligent since the moment Starr run away. In my opinion, Blair has not been this strong and this much control in such a long time. I really do not get where you got the impression that Blair&Starr blamed Todd today for Starr's pregnancy. -- lucy, 17:50:28 05/21/08 Wed

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[> [> [> [> Cole and Starrr would;nt even been at Langston;s House if it was;nt for Todd wanting move them to Hawaiii,alll i don;t know how people can blame Blair for it,need to put the blame where it belongs,And Blair is very intelligent.i am proud of Blair standing behind Starr.Blair Rock.She is the best. -- shelia, 18:31:28 05/21/08 Wed

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[> [> [> [> [> I do not know why Blair is getting blamed. Since Starr took off to VA, Blair has been very smart and in charge. However, its evident by watching Blair yesterday and today, she feels alot guilt for being so passive over the last few months. She feels if maybe she was not so acquiescent, then maybe things would have been different. The what if game is very normal human reaction. Blair is dealing with alot of emotions right now, but she knows she has to be strong and in charge for her children because they need her. -- lucy, 18:39:43 05/21/08 Wed

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Blamed for what? I don't see much blame falling on Blair for what did or didn't happen. What's ridiculous is blaming Todd for what Starr and Cole decided to do. Todd's Hawaii move was dumb but it wasn't about keeping Starr and Cole apart no matter how anyone at the Cramer house wants to rewrite it. Todd's behavior has been horrible and ridiculous but he didn't force Starr and Cole to do anything that night. He made rotten decisions and so did they. To put it all on him is ludicrous. -- Dandesun, 19:22:15 05/21/08 Wed

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> I do not get why some view Blair as the irresponsible parent in this mess. I rewatched today's scenes again thinking maybe I missed something, but I still did not hear or see anything from Starr or Blair today that implied they blamed Todd for Starr being pregnant. In my opinion, the whole Starr&Blair are blaming everything on Todd is just fan spin. -- lucy, 19:40:46 05/21/08 Wed

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> I usually lurk but I just want to say the following. I don't think anyone is saying Blair is an irresponsible parent. They are simply saying that Todd is not responsible for Starr and Cole having unprotected sex. They (Sole), and only they, are responsible. Todd has a lot of blame to bear in this but Sole having unprotected sex is not part of it. -- Lexi, 05:25:17 05/22/08 Thu

What are we saying here? If a family suddenly has to move, the responsibility and fault lies with the parents should those children choose to have unprotected sex? I don't think that is an argument we want to make here.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> I guess I just do not see what others see. In my opinion, I do not see tptb pushing the point that Todd is responsible that Starr&Cole having unprotected sex. Everyone has their own perspective, but from I have been seeing Blair is dealing with her own guilt, but at the same time, she is determined to make things right with Starr. Also, Starr&Cole did admit to each other that they were so wrong for not using protection. I do not see Blair&Starr blaming Todd for Starr running off to have unprotected sex. -- lucy, 06:04:17 05/22/08 Thu

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> I think it's the "IF...THEN" phrasology the characters keep using. IF Todd had not suddenly said they were moving, THEN Sole would not have had sex AND none of this would have happened. I take issue with that. Sole had a choice no matter where Todd said they were moving. The "IF...THEN" phrasology strongly implies that it's all Todd's fault. Simply. not. true. -- Cathy, 10:32:26 05/22/08 Thu

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Blair did NOT say that at all yesterday, I do not know if you watched yesterday or read viewers' recaps, but this is what Blair said, and I quote, "When your dad started on those stories about moving us all to Hawaii, I should have stopped him right there. Otherwise, MAYBE you wouldn't have run off with Cole and ended up pregnant." There was no IF...THEN. Blair PUT the BLAME on her NOT Todd. I am not getting why people are taking what Blair actually said yesterday out of context. I just don't get it. -- lucy, 10:48:31 05/22/08 Thu

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> I didn't see the show yesterday, lucy. I know in the past Blair has said directly to Todd, "if you hadn't wanted to move us all to Hawaii, Starr and Cole would not have gone to that house to MAKE LOOOOVE." Also, Todd himself has said to Starr, "if I hadn't wanted to move us to Hawaii, you and Cole would not have gone to the house that night, am I right?" Sorry I can't provide exact eps and airdates, but trust me, this stuff was said. Don't be upset though - it's just a soap opera. -- Cathy, 10:54:04 05/22/08 Thu

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Trust me, I am not upset, Cathy, in fact, far from it, I am confused by the spin some are putting on Blair right now, but I am not upset. I have talked this subject to death so I moving on from it. Everyone has a right to their opinion. -- lucy, 11:08:27 05/22/08 Thu

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Yes, lucy. Definitely everyone has a right to their opinion. :) FYI, here's a quote from Blair from the 4-23 episode (to Todd who is talking about seeing Sole naked in bed)... Blair: "Starr and Cole wouldn't have even considered making love if you hadn't...none of that would have happened if you hadn't told the whole fam we were moving to Hawaii." -- Cathy, 12:49:22 05/22/08 Thu

And here's a quote from Todd to Starr on the 4/28 episode:

Todd: "I can't believe I'm going to say this...what happened between you and Cole probably wouldn't have happened if I hadn't insisted we all move to Hawaii. Am I right?"

Those are just two examples of why I suspect some people have the impression that the show is suggesting that Sole sex is Todd's fault. IMO, it's wrong to suggest such a thing. Sole made their own choice, and Hawaii or no Hawaii, Todd isn't the cause of what they did. Yet the dialogue has, in the past, quite clearly stated that it is.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> I understand what you are saying, I just think that Starr & Cole would have never had any kind of sex "that night" if they had not thought it was their last night together. I'm not saying it is only Todd's fault. Cole & Starr did make the decision, but Todd has to accept that his actions lead to their decision. Like him constantly beating up Cole lead to why they ran away. I thinks Blair has some fault in it too. She should have gotten Todd under control sooner or at least tried. My problem with Todd is he acts like nothing is his fault and that he doesn't regret one thing he has done. -- tonya, 10:11:13 05/22/08 Thu

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Definitely Todd acts like he doesn't regret anything he's done. He's clearly lost touch with reality. I guess he'll regret it when all of his children are taken away from him. Sadly, Jack and Sam will suffer the most - the only ones in all this would did absolutely NOTHING to deserve the consequences. -- Cathy, 13:36:43 05/22/08 Thu

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Lexi - I think that's exactly what people are saying. I know that's how I view it. Starr and Cole had choices just like Todd had choices. All three made the wrong choices. Cole's mother moved him halfway across the country just a few years ago, but he didn't sleep with his girlfriend as a reaction to it. I don't care if Todd said he was moving them to Timbuktu, it was Sole who decided to go for unprotected sex. -- Cathy, 10:26:06 05/22/08 Thu

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