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Well it's not really secondary, more like subtle -- Ramses 2, 22:52:22 08/06/05 Sat [1] (69.242.120.180)
It may be something that when it happens once or twice it doesn't seem like anything much, but then you look back and notice that it happens often enough and that not only is there the repetition but that what's repeated might actually have a say on the larger story. Like Buffy and fire.
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i'm intrigued by the bronze scenes, too. under the stairs?... -- spiritus, 14:27:28 08/08/05 Mon [1] (4.252.145.144)
let me try a small part of this one
i noticed that the 'under the stairs' action happened a lot during pivitol moments between buffy and spike
--faith/buffy hit on chipless spike under the stairs. then rage and the thrown bottle
--buffy asks for spike's help finding out who she is and they share a beer at a table under the stairs. spike also learns about buffy getting chomped for the first in a long time
--the infamous snogging scene. spike pushes buffy further under the stairs
--first time buffy is seen by spike. he is lurking under the stairs spying on her doing her homework then creeps out from under the stairs to watch her dance.
there are probably more but just off of the top of my head
what about willie's?
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Nice catch spiritus -- Ramses 2, 16:53:59 08/08/05 Mon [1] (69.242.120.180)
And now I'm thinking of Normal Again Buffy reaching out and tripping her friends as they descend the basement steps. I think we could probably pretty safely see stairs and what goes on underneath them to symbolize all the stuff percolating away in the subconscious.
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yeah but i a little different from 'the basement' -- spiritus, 17:50:19 08/08/05 Mon [1] (4.252.149.21)
it seemed to be buffy and spike's pivitol moments about feelings- towards each other,--suprise revelations on someone's part or at least, led directly to some suprise revelations--that of course, were subconsiously hidden. it seemed to be their 'thing', though.
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Actually, according to the ATS DVD's, this was something they'd planned. -- Joe, 23:26:01 08/10/05 Wed [1] (24.49.244.38)
In the commentary for "City of...", it's mentioned that they'd originally planned on Angel having an accomplice who worked at the public library, who would allow him access after hours. However, the plan was eventually scrapped.
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Shhhh, Michael, I was just perfecting my peach sangria technique -- Ramses 2, 09:03:15 08/07/05 Sun [1] (69.242.120.180)
blathering on erroneously is a very crucial step:) It is at times like these I wish we had the ability to edit.
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Re: Well that is a triangle -- chuckit25, 12:55:15 08/09/05 Tue [1] (65.31.232.191)
A very light motif--basic mythological symbolism, for example: Buffy carries her weapon ( deer drop their horns each season and she got a new boyfriend in trying to deal with all that would hold her from changing) and lets just say she was a protector of her herd, that symbolically became the whole world, both as a "melodramatic" young person and as the life force associated with the stag. She stands with the eagle on both sides of the Bridge of Death—negotiator between earth and heaven or the involutive and evolutive, the subterranean and heavenly and is a messenger of the gods. Stags were believed to have intuition to healing plants and are shown with the cross between the antler branches, which is intersection of male and female elements, and the secret door to the All. She is also antithetical to the he-goat. The fact that Buffy is Capricorn cusping Aquarius also gives the idea that a human being is the all, the paradox.
The stag is associated with the Tree of Life—antlers like branches and the idea of renewal. The stag is heavenly with the lion (also eagle, noted as griffin on Angel’s back and even his endless associations with all Hyperion and Apollo signs) are secular enemies of the snake, the subterranean, the fecund.
The wolf is mated for life and this is his curse, he is a fearsome predator, but is all about family. Angel was willing to do * anything * for his family and he thus crossed several lines in understanding what is right. We can’t forget Loki’s wolf who would break from his shackles (temporary chained chaos) eat the sun and either water or fire would destroy the earth. Buffy’s transformations occur underground in the presence of fire. Angel’s occurred above ground in the presence of rain. Both present means the union of opposites, the end of the world
His journey is two fold, to gain the female principle within (notice every woman he encounters tells him the secret to self-renewal, but he can't locate it within. He just goes into a useless static brood or is all male principle in action. The other part of his journey is to free himself from his curse was something completely ignored, his fear of oblivion--Not being material even as he kept using the alchemical rules toward the return to innocence.
Of course, this is precisely a slayer's job, to return all to the natural cycle. Human dust to dust and the “vampire” spirit is freed from the torture and imposition of flesh that only serves to starve spirit twisting him to evil. But, of course, then he would no longer be vampire, so, "bingo," oblivion.
She does question what it is to be a woman, but psychologically her power here comes in darkness, in fecundity. This is actually the female principle—all that goes before and lays to rest what isn’t useful into new potential. We all, whatever sexuality that is probably unique to each individual, hold male and female principles within that interact with these same principles without and when these interact in balance we are consider adult and have the mechanism in a perpetual life cycle to grow, die and renew.
She is both male and female principal, but the nature relationship to not harm—deer are vegetarian afterall—and to ultimately sacrifice her life and even to spend her life as leader of her "harem." Is the great life cycle. The stag eats the grass and lays down his life that would provide for all his kind and thus his immortality. She even used the line she would go stag to the prom. She had her last dance with her darkened knight, the awakener to her journey from girl to woman. Also note the endless relationship that is wolf and stag. Both watch and a wolf will not allow exceeding injury from a stag or he will die.
See above in magic regarding her idea as many seeds that are hidden to be awakened by “the goat-foot god” in a phantasm of rut with Willow’s goddess. The power of the hell mouth is the secret and dark passage to all that it is to be a woman and understand her paradox.
Ram is Spike and this one is so central of all creatures. The agricultural cycle was female based and “stayed put” The warrior cycle began because of sheep needing pasture, forcing nomadic lives and the forging of weapons against those they encountered for obvious reasons. The Ram is the god of love and war and always, always, the ultimate sacrifice. He is the male principle who lays down his life that all may live and be nourished.
. This is Spike’s journey as both Shiva’s dance of fire and in the use of Thor’s hammer. Thor was the union of what we know of Aries (ram and god of war) and Venus. It is important to know that the Ram is the first sign and the source of all whose horns split and these are male and female principles, love and war, chaos and order, etc. So Spike is signaling he himself is the union of opposites even as the Ram lays down his life. (the material for the spiritual). He leaves the subterranean, material and is the sun, the source, from within that fills the heaven, enabling all to live. Spike is actualized, human and enlightened. He was rather wasted on ATS having repeated the same thing and was merely used as foil in perception and disciplined chaos.
The sun sign also is The Scythe given as that of the grim reaper (death) and here we have in “Chosen” Spike and Angel in union with Buffy, the full cycle of creation death and light’s triumph over darkness. She further is lanced through by the sword of Apollo, wielded by a monster—the weapon by which she kills—and lets go. She shares her power with the chaotic and dark truth of herself ( Faith) in union to be the spiritually unified and individuated woman. This also signaled the changing of the Titans to the gods meaning human beings now exist in relationship to gods. Buffy is in the world.
Sorry to give Spike such short shrift, but I have to run. Sorry!
Chuckit25
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