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Date Posted: 06:31:04 07/20/05 Wed
Author: Chani
Author Host/IP: 81.65.9.39
Subject: Yeah but Dru was such a selfish creature
In reply to: Rosalind 's message, "Re: The Drusilla/Spike/Angel Triangle of S2" on 20:51:45 07/19/05 Tue

She feared the Slayer because she wanted to keep her knight, but at the same time it was all about her Daddy. She was manipulative rather than jealous.

Dru was very cruel towards Spike, much more than Buffy IMO, but she had been taught by Angelus that cruelty was a way to show affection, didn't she?

She's a complex character because at the same time she had a grudge against Angelus for what he had done to her family but she took everything on Angel (it's obvious in their first scene together and later in What's My Line 2), Angel who isn't supposed to be guilty for Angelus' sins (well according to Buffy's logic). Dru knew better. She knew that Angel and Angelus was the same person and she knew that torturing Angel was best because she could torture his soul as well as his body.

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Replies:

[> [> [> I don't think it was Buffy's logic.... -- Christian, 16:19:51 07/20/05 Wed [1] (209.240.205.62)

Apparently if you were a vampire who killed lots of innocent humans and later get soul then he isn't responsible for that creature's evil doings. So why should he feel guilty? I mean that's what Joss and everyone on the board keeps preaching. Am I right?


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[> [> [> [> Hey my "HUGS" seemed to disappear from my post dammit! HUGS Chani! :) -- Christian, 16:25:04 07/20/05 Wed [1] (209.240.205.62)


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[> [> [> [> [> I never really thought Angel/Angelus were the same entity -- Christian, 17:53:19 07/20/05 Wed [1] (209.240.205.62)

They were to seperate beings in my honest opinion.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> Yes and No -- Michael, 18:42:57 07/20/05 Wed [1] (66.44.2.41)

They are different, but I see it as more complicated as that.

Angel's personality is what one could call an "untwisted" version of Angelus (in analogy to the concept that a vampire tends to have a "twisted" version of the original person's personality). In addition, Angelus is still there, still part of what Angel is, even though it isn't the dominant part.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Maybe -- Christian, 20:06:05 07/20/05 Wed [1] (209.240.205.62)


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[> [> [> [> [> *Hugs Christian* -- Chani, 05:44:52 07/21/05 Thu [1] (81.65.9.39)

Looks like I was hugging myself below...


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[> [> [> [> Actually I don't think it was what Joss kept preaching -- Chani, 05:39:17 07/21/05 Thu [1] (81.65.9.39)

It's what Angel and Angelus wanted to make everyone believe!

Besides the curse and its clause would be pointless if they were 2 different entities. I mean the Gypsies wanted revenge, they made him suffer (his whole being including Angelus), he was supposed to be punished, he could no longer have a moment of happiness. His dark side (Angelus) suffered because he was no longer on the driver seat, moral compass keeping him in the back seat and preventing him from doing evil, and his good side suffered because of the guilt...hence his brooding.

Lots of people wondered about the happiness clause, thinking it was stupid (because it was the free card for Angelus), but it's very significant, it's precisely which points out that Angel is responsible for all his actions including the evil ones.

All Angel's journey shows the opposite of what you said. After season 2 he was in denial because Buffy was hurt, and he kept speaking of Angelus as antoher person (and vice versa) but in Ats he slowly acknowledged that Angelus was a part of him and in season 5 (probably because he couldn't fool Spike) he simply said "I" when speaking of Angelus.

And think of ensouled Spike who is haunted by his crimes too. He never says he was someone else.

Angel and Angelus as two different beings is a poetic licence, good to tell a story, just like Jeckyll and Hyde was 2 different beings with 2 different names, but in the Jossverse as in Stevenson's novel, it's only a meatphor of the evil a man keeps inside and that can be unleashed.


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[> [> [> [> [> I forgot to hug you too! * HUGS* -- Chani, 05:43:21 07/21/05 Thu [1] (81.65.9.39)

But gently, because I had vaccinations yesterday and I'm weak and in pain today...especially on the right. My arm and shoulder hurt because of the vaccination for the typhoid fever.

BTW I think I'm going back to bed.


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[> [> [> [> [> But if Angel was responsible then what does it say 4 Spike? Isn't he too responsible 4 his actions? -- Christian, 14:08:12 07/22/05 Fri [1] (209.240.205.62)

That doesn't make sense does it? "Angel" responsible for Angelus' actions but not Spike?

Is it the writers fault? Or the fans?


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[> [> [> [> [> [> Who said that Spike was not? -- Chani, 13:07:11 07/26/05 Tue [1] (81.65.9.39)

Certainly not him!

It made perfectly clear that he was responsible, he never said that evil Spike was someone else!


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