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Date Posted: 11:46:11 07/29/05 Fri
Author: TGWShark
Author Host/IP:
Subject: Time will tell
In reply to: justmytwocents 's message, "Prinze says no SMG in Buffy role" on 19:17:55 07/28/05 Thu

It will all boil down to economics in the end.

I like SMG. I don't expect her to ever be an "A-list" actor, or to enjoy the control a Cruise has. She may surprise me. She's had some good box office out of things I didn't enjoy, but I'd say the Scooby Doo movies would have been box office successes with trained hamsters made up to look like the cartoon characters. You'll never go broke underestimating the tastes of the public. And I'll never understand why "The Grudge" made a dime after the first weekend, but that's a matter of my personal taste.

I like Joss. I don't like all his creative choices, but he generally entertains me.

If the time comes when Joss has a script and backing for a "Buffy" movie, SMG may fight to reprise the role. Until then, any words by Joss and/or Mr. Gellar are just so much jockeying for position.

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[> Re: Prinze says no SMG in Buffy role -- John, 19:37:22 07/30/05 Sat [1] (

There is virtually NO way they can get the money for a good movie without SMG. That is the bottom line. Unless Serenity is a huge hit- Joss will never have the clout on his own to get a big movie budget deal.
Most fans DID NOT LIKE Season 6- every board and every source I have seen has shown that those that liked season 6 are in the DISTINCT minority. Not to mention how fast the ratings fell in season 6. Season 6 was unrealistic- depressing- and, frankly, distastefull in many respects. the damage done to many of the charactors was never repaired in any way- and there was very little attempt in season 7, which was messed up as well. Joss LOST a lot of the luster he had gained up through season 5- he was - rightfully- blamed for it all; he WAS the man in charge, though Marti certainly has a lot of the BLAME as well.
Right now, he is up against it in that the Serenity movie must do very well, or he will NOT be doing much in movies again. As regards TV, he still has clout there; but it is limited to certain areas.
SMG needs a role that is not a franchise like Scooby Do; or a remake like the Grudge; something original that works and makes money. BUT, inhe movie world, she is in better shape then Joss is; TV- since she has no interest in another movie it does not matter.

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[> [> I don't see what season 6 has to do with a movie -- Eurydice, 20:16:41 07/30/05 Sat [1] (

I wasn't all that fond of it myself, at least the second half, but I can't imagine why any Buffy movie would revisit her issues from season 6. And as much as we all love BtVS, it's not such a well known franchise that anyone would commit a big budget movie to it, anyway. And as far as Joss's movie career is concerned, he's already got a big bidget film coming up - it's called Wonder Woman. So it seems as if he's doing pretty well for himself.

All this harping about SMG's hard feelings and Joss's hard feelings and blah, blah, blah seems pretty irrelevent to me. The entertainment business is filled with egos and emotion and tensions and slights, both real and imagined. If the players can't handle it they should get out of the game, and it looks like these players *can* handle it - it's the fans who can't handle it.

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[> [> [> I think it has alot to do with events of season 6... -- Christian, 20:51:45 07/30/05 Sat [1] (

As John has stated it was so unlike what the show was originally like/about. And it was the catalyst for all "the hard feelings" between Joss/SMG.

Anybody can say what they want but even James Marsters couldn't save Angel from being cancelled. I doubt any TV Exec would want ANY type of spinoff/movie involving the Buffy/Angelverse. Especially so soon.

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[> [> [> [> Re: I forgot to add that...... -- Christian, 20:58:17 07/30/05 Sat [1] (

I don't think anyone would want a movie of the "verse" tht DIDN'T include any of the main characters ie: Buffy/Angel.

Secndary characters like Spike, Faith and Willow just won't work. IMO

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[> [> [> [> [> I guess I'm a little confused then -- Eurydice, 22:00:26 07/30/05 Sat [1] (

Because I never thought there was ever any serious talk about a Buffyverse feature film, except maybe by the fans. All the chatter I've heard has been about TV movies and I think that secondary characters could carry one of those - it wouldn't cost as much and the target audience would be right there - and quite frankly, I think it would be more interesting to explore characters we don't know as much about than the two we know everything about.

I think that might be part of the reason why Serenity made it to feature status - it's the beginning of a franchise with new characters who have yet to be explored and there's already a devoted fan base - there's a lot of room for growth, not so much for Buffy and Angel.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Serenity is in a totally different arena. SCIFI -- Christian, 15:53:49 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

And Firefly lasted like what 6, maybe 7 episodes before FoX cancelled it? Not enough time to really get into the characters 100% or their stories. Totally different from Buffy in every aspect.

I do agree with you that Buffy's story is quite done. I think all of their story is quite done which is why a spinoff is really a moot point.

As I said before they'll need to re-start the franchise with a bunch of "NEW" characters. And that will take awhile.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> That was my point -- Eurydice, 17:46:47 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

It doesn't matter if Firefly is sci-fi, when you're putting money into genre you want it to be at the beginning of a potential franchise, not at the end. Firefly was on FOX only very briefly, but it sold a gazllion DVDs and since then the fan base has grown. The fan base can grow even more as the story and characters develop -not to mention that there'll be a new market for all the ancillary merchandise.

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[> [> Re: Prinze says no SMG in Buffy role -- John, 08:12:54 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

One of the reasons that the movie was discussed was that you have a lot more freedom in movies then on TV, unless you are talking cable. Even there there are some restrictions. Also- what has been big in the last 10 years or so? Feature movies of TV series, comic book movies- so Buffy is right there in the mix of what is hot now.
Not to mention the MONEY- salaries in movies are pretty big.
Another reason that a movie has been a hot topic is the feeling of many people, not just the fans, that there are a lot of unanswered questions, and still a lot left to see in the Buffyverse.
Serenity was green lighted when Joss was pretty hot, and the circumstances were favorable. But it is not the biggest budget around, and Joss needs it to be a big hit, if he is going to keep making movies.
Firefly was a cult show. somewhat like BUffy in that way, but NOWHERE near as big. There would be a LOT more interest in a Buffy movie. If it bombs, the only movie that Joss will get greenlit after that would be a Buffy movie WITH SMG.
The hard feeling between SMG and Joss are not anything new in Hollywood, but it is still something that must be taken into account. SMG, most of the cast, and many of the fans felt abandoned by Joss after season 5; he was so into Firelfy that he pretty much let Marti do what she wanted, and as we all know that was NOT a good idea. Joss felt that SMG and company should be gratefull for what he did for them- but he forgot that they did a lot for him in how well they made the Buffyverse come to life. And there are usually differences between the creator and the actors that play the parts: both feel they have a unique point of view and that is true; often those points of view do not agree.
GIven the time that has passed, I think a lot of the heat is gone from the feud, but Freddy is certainly NOT helpfull.
Really cannot see what SMG sees in him, but you know what they say: Love is blind. I wonder, since SMG is doing pretty well outside of Buffy, just how much interest she will have in reprising the role. I think it would take a VERY good script to tempt her.

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[> [> [> I think we're all putting words in peoples' mouths -- Eurydice, 11:55:58 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

Regardless of what been spread around the internet, we really can only guess how Joss and all the actors felt then and feel now. From what I've seen, it seems that SMG has never been much interested in identifying herself with Buffy, even during the years when we all think things were going well - so I don't think that even a VERY good script would tempt her - but that's just my opinion.

You're right that there were a lot of unanswered questions in the Buffyverse, but I don't think that any of them related to Buffy herself - her story is over. However, there's lots more to say about the true nature of Slayers, what happens next now that there are zillions of them, what about the Watchers, what about Willow and the coven, who are the Guardians, and so forth. We don't really need Buffy for any of that. And that's why I think a TV movie would be more appropriate - for one, TV is the better medium for telling a serialized story and for another, a big budget feature would require the name recognition of Buffy who has nothing more to say for herself.

And geting back to Joss - Joss is hotter now than he was when Serenity was greenlighted - the success of the advanced screenings and good press have seen to that. That's one reason why he's got Wonder Woman coming up - I'm not quite sure why you keep ignoring that.

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[> [> [> [> Re: I think we're all putting words in peoples' mouths -- John, 15:52:08 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

If serenity does not do BIG business then it is allon wonder woman- and frankly, I have a hard time thinking that that will be a big hit. Its all about two things- money and awards: neither of those movies will win awards, so they MUST make big money. Joss is not all that hot- UNTILL he makes a big movie that hits hard. Simple facts of Hollywood.
You are in a distinct minority about Buffy's story being over (that cookie dough is not done yet). Also- what are the chances of even a TV movie getting a decent budget if SMG is not playing Buffy? As time goes by (and Hollywood OFTEN has a very short memory) the chances of that movie slowly decrease. I disagree about SMG's interest in Buffy- she is fully aware that she is where she is because of it- and if a really good script comes up she will probably take it. That depends on how successfull she is at the time. ALso= she has expressed a lot of interest in starting a family; that would take her out of the business for at least a year- in that case, when she is looking to start working again, that kind of offer might hook her.
There is a lot of interest in the other charactors by the fans- but is it enough to make the studio's or the networks pony up good money? That is a question. The way Hollywood is run anymore, they do not want to tamper with the cast of a movie based on a TV series when the actors are available. If Joss gets early approval of such a movie, SMG being in it would probably be a must.

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[> [> [> [> [> Hey to preaching to the choir here John. -- Christian who's nodding in agreement, 16:05:39 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

I forgot about the "cookie dough speech" she's not done baking. So yeah there is more story to tell I guess.

But I honestly don't think SMG would return to TV for a "Buffy" reunion movie. It would have to be a feature film that brings her back. I could see an Eliza Dushku doing a feature film for "Faith" and that's because she has done a few of those in the past. And she has a "screen presence" that kind of grabs you. For me anyway.

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[> [> [> [> [> I don't think I'm in a distinct minority -- Eurydice, 18:06:02 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

We only have to look at the dying fan boards and lack of fan fic to see that peoples' interests are moving on. And those of us left might be itching to see more of Buffy struggling with romantic angst and the dreary demands of daily life, but the guys who produce action/genre films sure aren't. I think the chances of any BtVS/AtS movie, TV or feature, are pretty slim but since we're trading opinions, mine is that there's a better chance of getting one made without Buffy than with her.

Serenity doesn't have to do BIG business, it has to do good business - and this isn't some kind of do or die situation, either. Joss got Wonder Woman based on his accumulated body of work, his ability to tell good stories about strong women and his ability to create long-lasting myth. Even his detractors agree that when he focuses he can turn out terrific work. It's a great opportunity for him, he's finally getting some recognition and I say good for him.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> I'm actually a bit afraid of what he'll do to Wonder Woman if you ask me... -- Christian, 18:37:14 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

While he did great for the character of "Buffy" the first five seasons he also diminished the character the final two. And you can go to any other forum and they'll ALL agree that "Buffy" wasn't likable or a character you could relate to in the end. And she wasn't the only character either to change so drastically.

So i'm basically praying "Wonder Woman" DOESN'T become a "Buffy" part deux IF the Wonder Woman film IS a hit and becomes a franchise.

Keeping fingers crossed here.

So i'm Split.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Oh and the reason i'm saying that is because I finally saw/heard Commentary 4 "Chosen" -- Christian, 18:47:26 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

JW seems very, um how can I say this, not all there? I was kind of shocked.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> huh? -- spiritus, 07:58:23 08/02/05 Tue [1] (

what on earth does that mean? he seemed pretty lucid to me. in fact joss does about the best commentaries around, imo. informative, deep, witty...i could go on. but -- i got it. sometimes artist are just shy of getting their point across. i saw what he was trying to do..i got it.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Actually no, the man came off as "confused" to me. -- Christian, 11:54:51 08/02/05 Tue [1] (

But if you really felt he was lucid then cool.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> I don't know, Wonder Woman is just one movie -- Eurydice, 19:29:57 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

It's just a couple of hours - and in those couple of hours he's got to establish who she is and where she's from and some sort of Bad Guy and some kind of peril, and she's got to figure out how to fight it and then she's got to fight it and then she's got to win - not to mention scoping out the modern world she enters and all the new people she meets and interacts with - and in between all that there might be about 3 minutes left for a bit of emotion and angst. Even if there's a sequel, we're still only talking about another couple of hours.

By the time Buffy crawled out of her coffin, we'd already been treated to 100 episodes devoted to her life and feelings - and each one had more focus on her than any movie would ever have because TV is a more character driven medium. I think that when a character becomes so finely detailed there's more risk of the audience not being able to see themselves in her - she begins to make decisions and to act in ways that we wouldn't choose or understand. I don't think this would happen in a movie about a new character, not unless he planned on making her difficult from the outset, and that doesn't seem likely.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Ooops, sorry. I mised a line in your post. :-) -- Eurydice, 19:59:18 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

I missed that your concern was if the movie was a success and if it became a franchise. Well, that would be terrific wouldn't it?

The thing is though that Joss didn't create Wonder Woman - he was hired to write and direct this film, so he'll put his interpretation on things, but he can't prevent others from interpreting her differently. I see it like the Batman franchise - they've had different writers and directors, even different actors, and sometimes Batman is broody and dark and sometimes he's lighter and campier, but he's always Batman. We say that we prefer one film over the other, but we don't say that Batman's been destroyed because he can always come back differently.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Ahhh no sorry necessary hun, I know he's capable f writing "strong" female heroes -- Christian, 21:00:37 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

He did so, extremely well the first 5 seasons of Buffy. But then, well you know what happened after that.

He wants to put his own spin on it, I think he said and I quote "No one has met Wonder Woman YET" THAT is what kind of scares me. I mean hello we know who WW is.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Well, Joel Shumacher did actually destroy the franchise in "Batman and Robin" -- Christian, 21:08:11 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

You have to go to DC message boards to understand what I mean.

He completely changed the background story of "Batgirl, which was a DISASTER with a capital "DIE" saster! He's well known for killing the Batman franchise until "Batman Begins" came along. George Clooney on paper seemed like a good choice but on screen not so. He seemed liked he wanted to laugh in a couple of scenes in the movie. And That's during a "dramatic" moment. Like Alfred being close to death. Anyway just wanted to point that out.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> He couldn't have destroyed it if it came back -- Eurydice, 22:36:35 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

Yes, people were saying that George Clooney wasn't right or that various backstories were wrong or the direction sucked or whatever, but all those comments were about the movie, not about the character. I don't hang at DC message boards but on the other boards I've been to I never saw people saying that they'd lost all respect for Batman or that he was a immoral or a hypocrite - if there was anything bad to say it was directed at the filmmakers cuz everybody *knows* that Batman isn't really like that.

People are willing to separate the character from the filmmaker in a way that they're not willing to do with Joss and Buffy, and I think that's because Joss actually created Buffy. There isn't any authentic Buffy apart from what Joss has written, so when he makes her do something we don't like, that's not some guys interpretation, that's really what she is.

Joss didn't create Wonder Woman, so even if he shows us something new and improved and utterly crappy, he won't have destroyed her - we can always go back to the original and start again.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Damn you 4 making the sense girl! Time for a duel! -- Christian, 02:32:45 08/01/05 Mon [1] (

Oh just for get it you'll just wind up winning anyway ol' ways.

CURSES Foiled again!


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Actually he didn't destroy it COMPLETELY, but he really damaged for awhile -- Christian, 17:53:08 08/01/05 Mon [1] (

I mean it took 8 years for them to come back with another one that 95% of the audience truly enjoyed.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> What Happened to Buffy? -- Rosie, 18:10:57 08/02/05 Tue [1] (

"He did so, extremely well the first 5 seasons of Buffy. But then, well you know what happened after that."

Exactly what happened? She grew up? I was never that impressed by Seasons 1 or 2. Season 1 was mediocre and Season 2 seemed disjointed. Frankly, I prefer Seasons 6 and 7, in compare to those two. I guess I'm not just into "Classic" (if you want to call it that) Buffy.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Actually Season 2 was wht put Buffy AND The WB on the map -- Christian, 21:41:24 08/02/05 Tue [1] (

You really can NOT dispute that. Season 6 the ratings went down considerably and to never really gain the audience back.

And Buffy did NOT grow up! She was a confused little girl, hated life. That's not growing up hun. That's "DEPRESSION" something that the majority of the audience did not like. Especially her speeches. And it reflected that in the ratings.

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