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Date Posted: 16:05:39 07/31/05 Sun
Author: Christian who's nodding in agreement
Author Host/IP:
Subject: Hey to preaching to the choir here John.
In reply to: John 's message, "Re: I think we're all putting words in peoples' mouths" on 15:52:08 07/31/05 Sun

I forgot about the "cookie dough speech" she's not done baking. So yeah there is more story to tell I guess.

But I honestly don't think SMG would return to TV for a "Buffy" reunion movie. It would have to be a feature film that brings her back. I could see an Eliza Dushku doing a feature film for "Faith" and that's because she has done a few of those in the past. And she has a "screen presence" that kind of grabs you. For me anyway.

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[> [> [> [> [> I don't think I'm in a distinct minority -- Eurydice, 18:06:02 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

We only have to look at the dying fan boards and lack of fan fic to see that peoples' interests are moving on. And those of us left might be itching to see more of Buffy struggling with romantic angst and the dreary demands of daily life, but the guys who produce action/genre films sure aren't. I think the chances of any BtVS/AtS movie, TV or feature, are pretty slim but since we're trading opinions, mine is that there's a better chance of getting one made without Buffy than with her.

Serenity doesn't have to do BIG business, it has to do good business - and this isn't some kind of do or die situation, either. Joss got Wonder Woman based on his accumulated body of work, his ability to tell good stories about strong women and his ability to create long-lasting myth. Even his detractors agree that when he focuses he can turn out terrific work. It's a great opportunity for him, he's finally getting some recognition and I say good for him.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> I'm actually a bit afraid of what he'll do to Wonder Woman if you ask me... -- Christian, 18:37:14 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

While he did great for the character of "Buffy" the first five seasons he also diminished the character the final two. And you can go to any other forum and they'll ALL agree that "Buffy" wasn't likable or a character you could relate to in the end. And she wasn't the only character either to change so drastically.

So i'm basically praying "Wonder Woman" DOESN'T become a "Buffy" part deux IF the Wonder Woman film IS a hit and becomes a franchise.

Keeping fingers crossed here.

So i'm Split.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Oh and the reason i'm saying that is because I finally saw/heard Commentary 4 "Chosen" -- Christian, 18:47:26 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

JW seems very, um how can I say this, not all there? I was kind of shocked.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> huh? -- spiritus, 07:58:23 08/02/05 Tue [1] (

what on earth does that mean? he seemed pretty lucid to me. in fact joss does about the best commentaries around, imo. informative, deep, witty...i could go on. but -- i got it. sometimes artist are just shy of getting their point across. i saw what he was trying to do..i got it.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Actually no, the man came off as "confused" to me. -- Christian, 11:54:51 08/02/05 Tue [1] (

But if you really felt he was lucid then cool.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> I don't know, Wonder Woman is just one movie -- Eurydice, 19:29:57 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

It's just a couple of hours - and in those couple of hours he's got to establish who she is and where she's from and some sort of Bad Guy and some kind of peril, and she's got to figure out how to fight it and then she's got to fight it and then she's got to win - not to mention scoping out the modern world she enters and all the new people she meets and interacts with - and in between all that there might be about 3 minutes left for a bit of emotion and angst. Even if there's a sequel, we're still only talking about another couple of hours.

By the time Buffy crawled out of her coffin, we'd already been treated to 100 episodes devoted to her life and feelings - and each one had more focus on her than any movie would ever have because TV is a more character driven medium. I think that when a character becomes so finely detailed there's more risk of the audience not being able to see themselves in her - she begins to make decisions and to act in ways that we wouldn't choose or understand. I don't think this would happen in a movie about a new character, not unless he planned on making her difficult from the outset, and that doesn't seem likely.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Ooops, sorry. I mised a line in your post. :-) -- Eurydice, 19:59:18 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

I missed that your concern was if the movie was a success and if it became a franchise. Well, that would be terrific wouldn't it?

The thing is though that Joss didn't create Wonder Woman - he was hired to write and direct this film, so he'll put his interpretation on things, but he can't prevent others from interpreting her differently. I see it like the Batman franchise - they've had different writers and directors, even different actors, and sometimes Batman is broody and dark and sometimes he's lighter and campier, but he's always Batman. We say that we prefer one film over the other, but we don't say that Batman's been destroyed because he can always come back differently.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Ahhh no sorry necessary hun, I know he's capable f writing "strong" female heroes -- Christian, 21:00:37 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

He did so, extremely well the first 5 seasons of Buffy. But then, well you know what happened after that.

He wants to put his own spin on it, I think he said and I quote "No one has met Wonder Woman YET" THAT is what kind of scares me. I mean hello we know who WW is.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Well, Joel Shumacher did actually destroy the franchise in "Batman and Robin" -- Christian, 21:08:11 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

You have to go to DC message boards to understand what I mean.

He completely changed the background story of "Batgirl, which was a DISASTER with a capital "DIE" saster! He's well known for killing the Batman franchise until "Batman Begins" came along. George Clooney on paper seemed like a good choice but on screen not so. He seemed liked he wanted to laugh in a couple of scenes in the movie. And That's during a "dramatic" moment. Like Alfred being close to death. Anyway just wanted to point that out.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> He couldn't have destroyed it if it came back -- Eurydice, 22:36:35 07/31/05 Sun [1] (

Yes, people were saying that George Clooney wasn't right or that various backstories were wrong or the direction sucked or whatever, but all those comments were about the movie, not about the character. I don't hang at DC message boards but on the other boards I've been to I never saw people saying that they'd lost all respect for Batman or that he was a immoral or a hypocrite - if there was anything bad to say it was directed at the filmmakers cuz everybody *knows* that Batman isn't really like that.

People are willing to separate the character from the filmmaker in a way that they're not willing to do with Joss and Buffy, and I think that's because Joss actually created Buffy. There isn't any authentic Buffy apart from what Joss has written, so when he makes her do something we don't like, that's not some guys interpretation, that's really what she is.

Joss didn't create Wonder Woman, so even if he shows us something new and improved and utterly crappy, he won't have destroyed her - we can always go back to the original and start again.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Damn you 4 making the sense girl! Time for a duel! -- Christian, 02:32:45 08/01/05 Mon [1] (

Oh just for get it you'll just wind up winning anyway ol' ways.

CURSES Foiled again!


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Actually he didn't destroy it COMPLETELY, but he really damaged for awhile -- Christian, 17:53:08 08/01/05 Mon [1] (

I mean it took 8 years for them to come back with another one that 95% of the audience truly enjoyed.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> What Happened to Buffy? -- Rosie, 18:10:57 08/02/05 Tue [1] (

"He did so, extremely well the first 5 seasons of Buffy. But then, well you know what happened after that."

Exactly what happened? She grew up? I was never that impressed by Seasons 1 or 2. Season 1 was mediocre and Season 2 seemed disjointed. Frankly, I prefer Seasons 6 and 7, in compare to those two. I guess I'm not just into "Classic" (if you want to call it that) Buffy.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Actually Season 2 was wht put Buffy AND The WB on the map -- Christian, 21:41:24 08/02/05 Tue [1] (

You really can NOT dispute that. Season 6 the ratings went down considerably and to never really gain the audience back.

And Buffy did NOT grow up! She was a confused little girl, hated life. That's not growing up hun. That's "DEPRESSION" something that the majority of the audience did not like. Especially her speeches. And it reflected that in the ratings.

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