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Date Posted: 16:17:38 08/02/05 Tue
Author: John
Author Host/IP: 64.19.85.53
Subject: Re: O/T Joss Whedon interview for Wonder Woman has me doubting him. AGAIN!
In reply to: Christian 's message, "O/T Joss Whedon interview for Wonder Woman has me doubting him. AGAIN!" on 13:03:17 08/02/05 Tue

It all depends on whether (like with Willow) Joss will box and kneel to the politically correct. Unfortunately, thats what he is sounding like. SO much for artistic integrity.

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[> My take -- silveragent, 16:46:13 08/02/05 Tue [1] (63.199.111.93)

First off, good for Joss for thinking about structure, plot, and other framework elements of the movie, which matter a lot. Good for him. Denny O'Neil has quoted William Goldman as saying every Movie, comic, and TV show has a "story spine" and all elements within it should reflect that and stuff that doesn't should be dumped. So, good for Joss for thinking structure first.

[Hey, this is what I've said from the beginning].

However, I really think Whedon needs a collaborator. His strengths are dialogue and characterization, not plot. I am a bit shocked he hasn't gone backwards from the ending first, but then every writer has their own method. Perhaps he simply didn't want to talk about the ending and already has it mind. But a collaborator such as Greenwalt, or someone similarly very strong on plot and structure could IMHO only help Whedon, as long as he can put ego aside and work as co-equals. Something very hard for some writers. Buffy at it's best reflected this co-operative dynamic IMHO.

All that praise being said ...

It's not the job of the Writer to cast. THAT is the job of the executive producer along with the casting director. It's not the job of the Writer to develop a costume. Costume designers with often decades of experience do that job, they have the expertise and experience to know what works and what doesn't, which Joss frankly doesn't. I see creeping ego there, the idea that Joss can do the jobs of other talented professionals better than they can, which is hopefully an artifact of the interview and not what he intended. Regardless IMHO Joss should not be concerned at all about who gets cast, or what the costume looks like, because movies being collaborative he has to trust that Silver will get the best people possible and work collaboratively to get the best actor and costume on screen.

Powers, costume, and actors all start from the script. Buffy isn't Buffy because she has superpowers for example, but because she is an ordinary girl in most regards thrust into superpowerdom. I am a bit dissapointed that Joss focused on things that don't really matter for his job at hand (which hopefully is just the interviewer wandering into irrelevant tangents) instead of the central character's emotional attributes.

The big danger for Joss as a writer is that time may have passed him by. His quotes about he's all about the pain, and couldn't handle a character group like say Fantastic Four, should be a red flag. IMHO audiences are not in the 1990's anymore, and want feel-good entertainment in very uncertain and unhappy times. If he can respond to that need and produce a feel-good, happy script for Wonder Woman I think he'll find success (he certainly has that ability). If he tries to morph the character into ultimate angst (WW IMHO is an optimistic not angsty pain-ridden character) set against a go-go 90's bubble mentality, I think it will flop like the films Dark Water or the Island even if the script is good in and of itself.

What I think would help Joss immensely is just wandering around Santa Monica or Venice and talking to people who have no idea who he is (avoid the worshipful cons and such) about what they like in entertainment, and what they don't.


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[> [> Joss is also the director . . . -- MTsFan, 17:05:09 08/02/05 Tue [1] (205.175.225.24)

which gives him a wider scope and view than just a writer would have. His contract is reputed to give him even greater control, perhaps encroaching on Joel Silver's position as producer. It remains to be seen who has greater influence on casting and costumes or if indeed they collaborate.


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[> [> [> Re: Joss is also the director . . . -- silveragent, 18:36:17 08/03/05 Wed [1] (63.199.111.93)

Hmmm ... AFAIK he was just the writer. Still, script first. Worrying about costumes or casting is something else.

Joel Silver is the big boss, if Joss pushes the envelope too much he'll end up like the first Director on Bourne Identity.

Canned from the sequel because he didn't get along with the producer and exec producer. Silver brought him onto the project is my understanding.

Regardless, it all starts from the script, costume and casting can be worked on collaboratively. It'll have to be. There's just no way Joss has those skills to those who've been in those professions for decades. Silver will get the best, he just has to trust him.


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[> [> [> [> Nope, the press release said write *and* direct -- Eurydice, 20:11:06 08/03/05 Wed [1] (141.154.23.82)

And since the director is the guy in charge of the artistic side of the project, he'll be involved in all those aspects of the film, as he should be.

There's no doubt that Joel Silver will have a strong hand in the project, he does on all his projects, and it is Joss's first big feature - but that doesn't mean that Joss will be sitting in a corner, pounding out a script like a good little monkey. If Silver only wanted him for his writing skills, that's all he would have hired him for - clearly, he thinks that Joss has got the ability. And Joss might not have ever directed a big budget feature before, but he's not some kid out of film school, either. He's been in the business for a long time and has been involved in the artistic design of all his projects.


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[> [> [> [> [> Well I just hope he does Wonder Woman justice. Cuz let's face writers/directors can goof up. -- Christian, 20:16:40 08/03/05 Wed [1] (209.240.205.62)


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[> [> [> [> [> [> Sure they can, but there's not reason to think he will, especially this early. -- Eurydice, 20:38:02 08/03/05 Wed [1] (141.154.23.82)


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Yeah you are right, Watching some episodes of S.5 Today makes me have faith in him (no pun intended) -- Christian, 22:18:36 08/03/05 Wed [1] (209.240.205.62)


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> I hope for your sake that he does a great job. -- Eurydice, 23:09:12 08/03/05 Wed [1] (141.154.23.82)

But you know, it's been years since I followed WW other than taking a peek at the current artwork. What is it about WW that fascinates you? And what would you consider "doing justice"?


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