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• YES! Come to me Jamie! (NT) -- Chrissylass, 23:17:52 02/08/10 Mon
• And it isn't even Wednesday! Can't shock Jamie often, great when it happens. (NT) -- jayn, 05:25:47 02/09/10 Tue
• Claire making Jamie feel better when she is hurt is so sweet. Sometimes in these situations humor is the best medicine. (NT) -- LisaW, 06:56:48 02/09/10 Tue
• I have a harder time with this than I do with the Claire and John scenes. I understand, Jamie wants to be sure 1 - that if a pregnancy results there's a chance it's his, 2 - that Claire will still share his bed. However - if it were me I think I would needing to crawl into a dark closet for a bit to pull my shit together before I let a man, even my own husband, touch me again. (NT) -- kgp, 06:58:43 02/09/10 Tue
  • I have no idea how I would behave. But I did appreciate this scene for what it meant to them both. And how it played out worked in the story, I thought. That Jamie tried at first to be gentle and loving and comforting with her, but Claire was scratching and clawing; being violent. It was like she needed to do that to get back some sense of control of herself. Sort of an echo of her advice long ago to Jamie to 'hit something.' At that moment it wasn't loving that she needed, it was violence. (NT) -- Tess, 07:12:20 02/09/10 Tue
  • I'm not very sure of Jamie's and Claire's ages when the abduction happens. A couple of questions then: How old is Claire when she's abducted and raped? If I'm right in my assumption she is in her lates 50's or not? If not, how much time has passed between ABOSAA and Echo? She's abducted twice in ABOSAA: first by the brigands and second by the Governor *G*, but it doesn't seem that she experiences flashbacks and the trauma of the rape/abduction during her time with the Governor. She has a worse time with it in Echo. Secondly, and maybe this will make more sense for those who have experienced domestic violence at one point or seen it happen: most victims seek comfort in the same place they found violence. Clarifying: Claire found violence through men, she will seek her comfort from a man, reassuring herself that not all is dangerous and that she can trust and believe and love again...even though Jamie is a man, he's also her safe place...I don't know if I'm making sense. (NT) -- Ayira from Panama, 07:25:26 02/09/10 Tue
    • It does make sense, and she pulled Jamie through by inciting violence in him, driving him to strike back at the spector of BJR in an opium haze - but this is different, imo. (NT) -- kgp, 08:39:13 02/09/10 Tue
• I think this moment is Claire's way of whistling in the dark. I also think that it is a tiny referrence to the fact that, once "engaged", Jamie didn't have to worry, the equipment would take over. (NT) -- Whiskey Eyes, 08:34:44 02/09/10 Tue
• I was thinking this also that Claire is too old to get pregnant again. (NT) -- Lady Elizabeth, 08:53:33 02/09/10 Tue
  • Exactly! sorry, I meant to put that in...she shouldn't be concerned about pregnancy if she was in her late 50's right? She should have gone through the change already, and the chances of her getting pregnant were close to null. But I think they discussed this from her scientific point of view, and ruled against pregnancy. (NT) -- Ayira from Panama, 09:06:28 02/09/10 Tue
    • I saw DG discuss this. She said that Jamie wasn't really worried about the possibility of pregnancy, but was worried that Claire might be so traumatized that she would withdraw emotionally and be lost to him. So this is his way of pulling her close and turning her focus to be on him, rather than on what's happened. (NT) -- maddiej, 10:46:33 02/09/10 Tue
      • It was a faint possibility - but his needing to be sure she didn't pull away from him was rather selfish then. He can't give her a night's rest in a clean bed first? (NT) -- kgp, 12:53:15 02/09/10 Tue
        • Jamie was hesitant about this - remember the talk with Roger? Part of their knowing each other so well was Jamie knowing intuitively that Claire needed 'him' this way, I think had she shown any sign he would have backed off immediately and just held her, or whatever. For the two of them making love, in whatever style, makes them whole together so it does make sense that this is how Jamie brought her back. Re pregnancy, didn't Claire say there was a .05% chance, but a chance still? I believe a woman can still get pregnant after menopause has begun, with the odds lessening until the end (that's when late surprises happen). (NT) -- jayn, 13:32:11 02/09/10 Tue
        • The risk of pregnancy was just an excuse used to do this. Jamie of all people would know what being raped would do to a person. He was unable to be touched by Claire in the abby...so much so that he told her he couldn't be her husband anymore & tried to send her away. And I think the time made it worse at the abby, although he was too sick for so long. I think Jamie's experience told him that to delay would make things worse for Claire. And I don't think it was selfish. Besides they discussed it openly before, and she didn't balk at his suggestion. (NT) -- Tess, 13:56:56 02/09/10 Tue
        • I agree, Tess - he would have stopped if she had wanted him to. Remember after he takes her from the ship when Tom confesses in order to give Claire her freedom - she and Jamie begin to make love, and she just can't, so he stops and holds her. I think this is right between them here because they both want it - being together is a very important part of their connection and how they heal each other. (NT) -- lori v, 14:51:34 02/09/10 Tue

• May I ask, what series is that book going to be in? Is it the next in the J & C story, or is it a Lord John book? I never, never read the exerpts, but am just curious as to what series she is working on at the moment. Thanks! (NT) -- Debbie H., 11:25:48 02/09/10 Tue
  • It's a LJ book but I don't know if we are certain who the Scottish prionsor is or when it is set? Or are we? Any idea of a tentative release schedule? (NT) -- jayn, 12:09:15 02/09/10 Tue

• At the bottom of the Ocean with the first sinking ship? On a cart half-way between Charleston and Boston mired in winter mud? TBD in next book. (NT) -- swarl, 11:45:52 02/08/10 Mon
• I don't think the darn printing press is mentioned again...It would have been mentioned as they travelled to Lallybroch and from there Jamie went to France with Jenny...the sheer cumbersomeness (is that a word?) of carrying a humongous printing press would have had to be mentioned! I think I'm going to have to re-read Echo, right away... (NT) -- Ayira from Panama, 12:06:56 02/08/10 Mon
• Yes, it's mentioned. Jamie arranged for Richard Bell (the man who was forcibly kidnapped and "deported" to Great Britain; his wife and daughters come and ask Jamie to find him) to go back to his family in North Carolina, and he entrusted Mr. Bell with transporting the printing press. So it's probably in North Carolina, waiting for Jamie to come or send for it. (NT) -- maddiej, 12:20:32 02/08/10 Mon
• Doesnt Jamie have a meeting with Mr. Bell and he determines that rather than just storing the printing press for him, Mr. Bell has actually been using it. As compensation, Jamie has Mr. Bell print a number of copies of Claire's medical book. At least that's what my feeble mind remembers...but I could have it all mixed up. :) (NT) -- CarolSR, 13:32:55 02/08/10 Mon
  • It was Richard's brother Andy Bell that had been entrusted with Bonnie, and had been using 'her.' Andy Bell was the one who cut a deal with Jamie, for absolution, he would print the books for Jamie & Claire and also forgive Jamie the cost of 'storing' Bonnie all those years. Richard was the one who accompanied the press back to America. With the build up of Jamie's printing abilities and sharp mind since VOYAGER, I am looking forward to seeing what he finally does with his printing press when he is reunited with 'her.' (NT) -- Tess, 13:37:41 02/08/10 Mon
    • I am at a blank...I remember all of that, save for the part when Richard Bell is entrusted with bringing the printing press back to North Carolina. Can someone point to the chapter? BTW, do you all know that Andy Bell, the dwarfish, potato nose character is a real character? He was an engraver from Edinburgh and together with a printer (whose name escapes my memory) created the Encyclopaedia Brittanica... (NT) -- Ayira from Panama, 14:29:32 02/08/10 Mon
      • I think that's all in Ch. 74, but don't have time to investigate for sure. (NT) -- fionaj, 16:00:32 02/08/10 Mon
        • Yes, Chap 74. The whole matter of the printer is dealt with very quickly and much of it is left to our assumption. I believe the plan to have R Bell return with Bonnie was dreamed up much earlier when Jamie realized the Richard/Andy connection and I don't think the printer went on the ship that sank, I think we are to assume they left Edinburgh asap while Jamie, Claire and Ian went to their family. (NT) -- jayn, 16:12:56 02/08/10 Mon
• Wasn't Jamie going to send it back with Archie Bell's cousin, the one whose family came to see them in NC and gave them the tip on the ship that was going to Edinburgh? (NT) -- Stargove, 15:13:40 02/08/10 Mon
  • Sorry - looks like others posted the info with the correct names! Knew I should have looked it up in the book before posting! (NT) -- Stargove, 15:15:42 02/08/10 Mon
• Putting my neck on the line here... but I thought it a bit contrived to go all the way to Scotland just for a printing press. (NT) -- Piper-Mom, 08:26:32 02/09/10 Tue
  • Well, yes and no. One of the reasons for going back to Scotland was the printing press, but it wasn't the only one. Remember at the end of ABOSAA, when we were all left wondering about who was Laoghaire shagging with? That was the other reason, to check up on that, so he can stop the alimony payments. Another reason was to bring Young Ian back to Jenny. But I don't think they ever thought about staying in Scotland for the rest of their lives, as they didn't have anything for them there anymore. And in Echo, Jamie mentions that he cannot be a soldier forever...so, what was he supposed to do with his life? He was a printer...same as he was a soldier, a smuggler and a farmer. He has lands to keep on being a farmer, but he's not of an age to keep on soldiering, but he could be a printer and an editor for a loooong time yet...And it wasn't just a printing press, it was 'Bonnie' (NT) -- Ayira from Panama, 09:14:26 02/09/10 Tue
  • Where else would he have found one? They weren't made in the Colonies; everything manufactured or made of metal had to be imported from Britain. Besides, as Ayira says, it was *his* press! Those weren't the only reasons for going to Scotland, either; he also wants to *not* meet Willie on a battlefield, and he knows Willie's in America. (NT) -- maddiej, 10:50:00 02/09/10 Tue

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• This always made me grin too - it's such an everyday domestic disagreement, and it's very heart-warming to read after the ordeal Jamie just went through - a sign that he's returning to his old self. (NT) -- MariaM, 20:39:23 02/07/10 Sun
  • I agree. The whole BJR episode is terribly upsetting to read, but I do love this recovery bit. And I love Claire for it, it's as though she instinctively encourages the fight in him because it means he's still got the will to live. She needs to see it as much as he needs to show it. (NT) -- Erin McN, 22:11:09 02/07/10 Sun
• I also enjoyed this scene. I like Murtagh - he doesn't say much, but when he does it is meaningful. (NT) -- MonicaW, 02:32:16 02/08/10 Mon
• I love those two!! Cannot wait for the graphic novel! (NT) -- Lady JenF :), 04:52:57 02/08/10 Mon
  • Can't wait too! (NT) -- LisaW, 06:48:03 02/08/10 Mon
  • Oh, I hadn't thought about that. We're going to get to see Murtagh again. yeah. (NT) -- Ellen P., 15:38:00 02/09/10 Tue
• Men are so funny and I love Murtagh, I wish he hadn't died, I agree can't wait for the GN. 'He's smashing things so he must be feeling better' - it reminds me of Jamie saying to Claire - 'I must be allright because you're yelling at me'. (NT) -- jayn, 06:20:17 02/08/10 Mon
  • Like father like son..in the future...Doesn't this smashing of things reminds you of the William's rage? the chandelier, the bannister... I can't wait to see them facing each other again...and Brianna...because they all have to be together...it is going to be the only chance they will ahve as a family...and LJG is going to be part of that family...ay no! what a mess... (NT) -- Ayira from Panama, 08:11:21 02/08/10 Mon
    • I think that's why Jenny makes the statement later, even though she has only just seen William, not even properly introduced, that "Like father, like son." Who else's son could he possibly be?! :) (NT) -- Missa, 16:18:26 02/08/10 Mon
• I love this! Jamie feeling better and Murtagh smiling. (NT) -- LisaW, 06:47:10 02/08/10 Mon
• I never thought about "Brother Roger" before, but is he a foreshadowing for our Rev. Roger? (NT) -- Kathy in PA, 06:51:59 02/08/10 Mon

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• I thought this also, good point........seems like there were a few inconsistencies (NT) -- Catherine, 10:20:16 02/07/10 Sun
• 1) Dottie may not have mentioned it, knowing Denzell would not care about titles. 2) Hal was better know for quite a while as Earl of Melton. 3) He may have known she was the daughter of a duke but as a relationship between them would be unthinkable he may not have paid attention to duke of what. or 4) as Rachel was unaware of Lady Dorothea perhaps he was covering his surprise so as not to alert his sister's curiosity. I'm willing to entertain the possibilities fo the sake of the story. (NT) -- kgp, 10:28:50 02/07/10 Sun
• I don't think there was any thought of a romantic attachment between William and Rachel other than in William's head, could be wrong. I agree though, if I told someone to name drop this way I would also explain the connection, just mentioning the name would be akin to me saying I know Queen Elizabeth....not much use if I can't explain how (no, I don't know her *G*). Quakers don't care about titles per se but I don't think Denny would be above using the name if they were in trouble. (NT) -- jayn, 10:45:29 02/07/10 Sun
  • What sort of reaction should there be? Even if Denny did recognize the name, he isn't about to tell either his sister or William about his love-affair with Dottie, certainly not while standing on the road saying good-bye. (NT) -- MsNaugha, 10:59:11 02/07/10 Sun
    • Oh gee, I never made that connection. Brain napping I guess. I was only thinking of the William/Rachel quasi-romance and what I said about needing to know how you're able to use a name before using it. It would have been interesting if Denny had made the William/Dottie connection, but, come to think of it, I don't remember him really saying much when he does see them together. Still, (had she chosen to and not 2nd guessing), DG could have given us Denny's reaction without him revealing anything, only thinking to himself. (NT) -- jayn, 18:45:14 02/07/10 Sun
• as focused as W. was on R., would he have noticed a reaction if a slight gulp or start made it through D.'s control? (NT) -- shellb, 12:55:52 02/07/10 Sun
• For some reason I always thought that William knew about Denny and Dottie and he was helping her get to America so they could reunite...But I don't think Denny knew that William was Dotty's cousin and the one helping them get together...Or is there another explanation given? As for saying things at inappropriate moments...well, what do you think abt LJG blurting out "I have had carnal knowledge of your wife..." while he and Jamie were running (and hiding) from the British Army? Terrible timing... (NT) -- Ayira from Panama, 08:03:23 02/08/10 Mon
  • William knew Dottie had someone, I don't think he knew who. William never met Denny's in Britain so I just guess that Dottie never gave a name. (NT) -- jayn, 14:15:24 02/08/10 Mon

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• I have always, always loved this line. It is so something that would happen to us. For instance, we took my little brother and his guinea pig on our honeymoon. Long story, dad had a kidney stone, he and mom spent two days in the hospital. So, yeah. This line always reminds me of that. I love how she underplays it by saying "slightly less so". (NT) -- Lisa L., 23:09:37 02/06/10 Sat
  • The 'slightly less so' is what makes this priceless! (NT) -- jayn, 10:47:15 02/07/10 Sun
• This reminds me of how much I hate camping out. Also reminds me of being crammed into a small yurt with Lynne, Dan, and three large, damp golden retrievers, one of whom was incontinent (old age). I was so relieved when they finally built a house on their otherwise incredibly gorgeous land in the wilderness! (NT) -- Lemora, 08:27:51 02/07/10 Sun
• Very, very funny. DG lures you in with the lovely and then makes it so real with true life. Wet men are almost as bad as wet dogs, having had to spend six hours inbetween my DH and DS last summer in a tent during a very intense thunderstorm at 9,000 feet in the Sierras. After two hours of making a trench around the tent so we wouldn't float away in the tent. (NT) -- LisaW, 10:52:20 02/07/10 Sun
• I loved this whole portion of the book, seeing them make their place in the new world and each finding their place in the family. But Claire's right! It's much more fun to read about than experience. (NT) -- DawnW., 10:53:06 02/07/10 Sun
• Well, she's done both before and shows us how equally well she can adapt. I can almost smell the discomfort. Hi Traci! Good pick. (NT) -- Niseold, 14:26:44 02/07/10 Sun

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• DG says it was Jamie. (NT) -- Lady Elizabeth, 19:07:25 02/06/10 Sat
  • Okay, thank you. But it's never mentioned in the books that you know of? I'm just curious if I missed reading the answer. (NT) -- Erin McN, 20:44:29 02/06/10 Sat
    • Nope. Its never clarified in print. We just have Ms. DG's word for it. *VBG* (NT) -- swarl, 09:54:53 02/07/10 Sun
• If DG says Jamie then ok but I expected this to be one of those bombs that gets dropped later somehwere - or maybe one of those scene herself wrote at random then had to insert somewhere *G*. IMO though Jamie was too drunk to be the fondler but I don't see it being PW either, I didn't really 'get' the whole episode but it wasn't important enough to bother me. (NT) -- jayn, 10:50:53 02/07/10 Sun
  • Perhaps Jamie was soooo drunk that he acted out this way but had ~just~ that much sense to back off and crawl away and sleep it off for fear of waking any of the other ladies? You know he isn't much shy about his attraction to Claire and thought to go see her, but then realized (drunkenly) what a stir it would cause to be caught .........ahem.........wanting Claire, so thought better of it after she started to wiggle from the foot masage? Or thought she'd know to get up and follow him---but he couldn't know she wouldn't follow him out for fear of it being Wylie? What surpised me was that he didn't mention it later in passing to her, but maybe it was one of those things people just blow off without a second thought......... (NT) -- Missa, 13:25:46 02/07/10 Sun
    • I was thinking more in terms of someone that drunk isn't usually able to be so quiet and co-ordinated. But then Jamie can do anything, can't he? *G* (NT) -- jayn, 18:47:29 02/07/10 Sun

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• I think Jamie has dreams of Brianna and the children in the future--like he has a dream about someone watching the children, and the rocks, I can't remember exactly, but Claire seems to realize when Jamie has one of these dreams and wants to know what he "sees." Maybe since he apparently can't TT, that is his "gift." (NT) -- WeeWelshLass, 10:07:57 02/06/10 Sat
• In ABOSAA, ch.68, "The Bones of Time"; sec1 Jamie tells Claire he wants her to "go back" if he's killed. He tells her that he's dreamed of her there, in her own time, with electric light. They discuss if it might be the past or the future, but then Jamie makes "the thoroughly Celtic remark" [Claire's words] about being able to dream of the past, "why would I not dream of the future?" (NT) -- fionaj, 12:32:49 02/06/10 Sat
  • Jamie definitely told Claire he dreamed of her - he was her sitting at a desk writing but the ghost saw her brushing her hair, I believe DG clairifed that was just a continuity error though. I don't think it had anything to do with Bree though,could be wrong. This is what makes me wonder about a timeline for all the time Jamies dreams of the kids vs the times they 'feel' him - are they the same times? They have similar details etc (like the kids in the field with the butterflies). (NT) -- jayn, 10:53:05 02/07/10 Sun
    • Are you saying that DG has said somewhere that in *this particular dream*, Jamie *is* the ghost in the first chapter of Outlander? (NT) -- fionaj, 12:06:46 02/07/10 Sun
      • I think she said that, I could be wrong and I don't remember where. Which, of course, means I could have dreamed it *G*. (NT) -- jayn, 18:50:00 02/07/10 Sun

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• This says it all doesn't it? Those who worry about Jamie's reaction to John's revelation at the end of Echo should remember this, I think. (NT) -- DawnW., 06:50:54 02/06/10 Sat
  • Yes, Dawn, it does. Their love transcends all else - 20 years of separation, hardship, rape, abduction, etc. Nothing trumps the love between Jamie and Claire. (Sigh) This is the reason I'm SO addicted to these books. (NT) -- TerriC, 08:07:48 02/06/10 Sat
  • Most of us don't worry about Jamie's reaction-it is what happened that we just don't like and just find a bit unbelievable. I know it's not my story to tell, and my opinion makes no difference whatsoever, but that is the way I feel about it, and through all the discussion on the Echo Board, I have not changed my mind-so I don't really want to open up that can of worms-so to speak :-), and start more arguing about that in particular. Although I cannot speak for anyone else, the feeling I got was not concern over Jamie's reaction, but more of it not meaking sense to us. I don't mean this to sound rude, but that is the feeling I have gotten from what I have read. (NT) -- Rollaine, 08:30:08 02/06/10 Sat
    • I have always gotten the feeling that those who don't like the John/Claire stuff are in the minority. Am I wrong? (NT) -- Judie, 09:28:05 02/06/10 Sat
      • I really don't knwo-you are probably right. I may be in the minority, but it hasn't been the first time, so I don't mind :-). No matter what the arguments for it have been, I still disagree. I simply go by my own experiences with the (unfortunately) many people I have known who have lost their life partners. But, this is just a story, the characters are not real, so, in the long run, its just a part of the whole that I just don't like :-). I tend to be in the minority in a lot of what I do and/or believe, so this is just normal for me! I kind of like bucking the trend :-). (NT) -- Rollaine, 09:47:27 02/06/10 Sat
        • The only reason I asked is because you said "most of us..........." and I thought that it tended to be the other way around. Just my feeling. (NT) -- Judie, 18:41:17 02/06/10 Sat
          • See what you mean...should have clarified. I meant most of us who have don't like the Claire/John thing :-). (NT) -- Rollaine, 20:39:31 02/06/10 Sat
            • AH! Hoser! :D (NT) -- Judie, 21:37:43 02/06/10 Sat
            • another disbeliever standing up to be counted :-) (NT) -- Gwen, 09:57:08 02/07/10 Sun
      • Hi Judie. I think that there are more of us who find the John/Claire sexcapade unbelieveable. We still may be the minority, but we own our beliefs. We remain some what silent and less vocal as we don't want to "get into it". That doesn't mean we disrespect what others believe. rity (NT) -- Cara, 10:32:44 02/06/10 Sat
      • I thought their first encounter understandable, the second one not so much, but I'm not upset by either. I'm curious to see how it plays out, Claire is/was John's legal wife. I'm looking forward to the untangling of the relationship ties and boundaries. John will certainly give up Claire with alacrity, no problem there. Jamie was able to get beyond her going to Louis. I'm more concerned about William catching up to his fathers and which one is going to have what to say about anything. Will Jamie take back seat to John in dealing with their irate son? (NT) -- kgp, 10:34:52 02/06/10 Sat
        • Well, again, for me, I cannot speak for anyone else, but it doesn't upset me. Again, no disrespect intended, but I simply don't get upset over books-not matter who writes them. I only get emotionally involved if it is a true story that deals with real people-then I tend to have more emotional reactions (Tuesdays with Morrie is the perfect example for me). Personaly, I found neither encounter understanble or believable (maybe the secind the was worse). Even though Claire was his wife, I really don't think it has anything to do with it-it was sopposed to a marriage for protection. That I understand-the rest, no. Am I curiousas to how it plays out, sure I am. I am, ofcourse, only human :-). And as Cara so nicely pointed out, I most certainly respect everyone's POV on this. Again, when all is said and done-it is a story and there is no reason to be disrespectful to what others feel. (NT) -- Rollaine, 10:50:00 02/06/10 Sat
          • OH...and kgp...I hope I did not sound like I thought your post was disrespectful. I was just making a general statement. :-) (NT) -- Rollaine, 10:56:09 02/06/10 Sat
        • Kgp, you sum up very well my thoughts on this as well. I imagine, as a matter of practicality, and especially now that the Brits have left Philly, the marriage can simply be annulled quietly and not made common knowledge to the 'Americans'. In those uncertain and modern communication-free times it was not without precedent to remarry then have your (dead) spouse return. (NT) -- jayn, 11:02:46 02/07/10 Sun
      • I haven't gotten to that part of 'Echo' yet, but I find the Claire/John sexual romp implausible. Yes, they "can" do it, but I have to echo Jamie in wondering "Why would you want to?" (NT) -- Lemora, 12:12:57 02/06/10 Sat
        • Hey there Lemora! How are you? Wondering if you had finished the book yet! (NT) -- Rollaine, 13:54:40 02/06/10 Sat
          • I'm approaching the half way mark. Brianna has just been hazed by her co-workers and passed over a TT force field in the tunnel w/o actually TT-ing. (Huh?) J&C have been embroiled in a game of Musical Ships off the New England Coast. I'm de-cluttering our house. (NT) -- Lemora, 16:05:31 02/06/10 Sat
  • I too don't like the John/Claire thing and don't get it. From Claire's point of view I can kind of (a very vague kind of though) understand it when it happened the first time. She was drunk and missed Jamie. But the second time? I also hated the morning after scene where Claire and John went "I'll show you mine if you show me yours". And from John's perspective - I have gay friends and I know they don't find women a turn on!! Also, it's struck me that Claire wasn't as sad this time as she lost Jamie the first time. She could hardly function when she went through the stone back to her own time and pregnant with Brianna. She couldn't even resume a relationship with Frank, whom she had loved, because she ached for Jamie. But her sadness seemed a bit superficial to me this time. (NT) -- chrissylass, 04:14:56 02/08/10 Mon
• Verra nice week of quotes, MariaM. Thank you. (NT) -- fionaj, 12:36:42 02/06/10 Sat
  • Ditto...yes they were. This is a beautiful quote. I feel the same as Jamie... I cannot/will not deal with the thought of my DH ever being gone. I've only asked him once what his wishes are, but I avoid it like the plague. (NT) -- Rollaine, 13:57:08 02/06/10 Sat
• I remember this.. powerful! (NT) -- Piper-Mom, 14:01:09 02/06/10 Sat
• In a way I dread reading more of the story. As much as I enjoy it, in the back of my mind I know that they will one day die. I just hope that they die at the same time. It would be bad enough to read about their deaths. But reading about one of them dying and the other grieving would be too much. (NT) -- Lady Grey, 16:31:50 02/06/10 Sat

• I wondered the same thing when I read it! I looked and looked and couldn't find a reference to an Amanda. The way he names her, though, seems like the reader should understand a connection. I'd love it if someone could answer this! (NT) -- Erin McN, 21:31:22 02/05/10 Fri
• Amanda means "worthy of love" - I think he's in love with his daughter. That's enough connection for me. (NT) -- kgp, 05:16:51 02/06/10 Sat

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• To me, this is one of the most beautiful, elegant way to spice up a 'let's give our relationship a go' speech/thought. (NT) -- MariaM, 21:33:48 02/04/10 Thu
• So sweet, I love how much Roger loves Brianna. (NT) -- WeeWelshLass, 03:54:59 02/05/10 Fri
• They are figuring out things together. I love how Bree kind of catches Roger off guard sometimes, he likes to show her his feelings and she is shy about showing hers, at first. But then she lets her guard down and Roger gets to see her real feelings. (NT) -- LisaW, 06:04:54 02/05/10 Fri
• Amazing writing!!! (NT) -- Whiskey Eyes, 07:36:29 02/05/10 Fri
• I completely forgot this passage. Thanks for sharing it. : ) (NT) -- Piper-Mom, 07:54:38 02/05/10 Fri
• Oh! I was just thinking about this part the other day! Just beautiful! (NT) -- fionaj, 11:06:59 02/05/10 Fri
• I had forgotten this passage too--how could that be? It is lovely. (NT) -- AnneJ, 18:06:37 02/05/10 Fri

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• DG mentioned that she got it from an earlier time.... I forget if this is the one tho. (NT) -- Piper-Mom, 18:53:47 02/04/10 Thu
• I can see Desire Lines on my shelf--haven't read it yet but have read his book on the Black Douglas. I saw him twice at the Williamsburg Scottish Festival, and he was fantastic! Sadly, he died in January--age 51 from a heart attack. I do seem remember that DG used a real model for Geillis. (NT) -- WeeWelshLass, 10:06:18 02/06/10 Sat

• There is much debate about the beating scene as well as the scene a bit later when many readers feel Jamie "raped" Claire. Many of the readers have a hard time with both, our modern sensibilities getting in the way. As for me, I just take it as part of the story and recognize that it probably was a pretty common thing back then. It reminds me of when Jamie was so shocked that Bree would want to have control over when she got pregnant and that Roger was ok with it. (NT) -- Lady Beth, 10:21:17 02/04/10 Thu
• It didn't bother me at all, thats the way life was back then and I was happy with that. I understood that what I was reading was based 200yrs ago so I was quite surprised at the furore the scene caused for some people. I guess we just all see things differently. (NT) -- Gwen, 10:26:23 02/04/10 Thu
  • Same here. (NT) -- Piper-Mom, 10:48:17 02/04/10 Thu
  • I agree with Gwen. One other thing I think was happening here was that Jamie was being scrutinized by Dougal and the other men. They wanted Claire to understand that she should not put the others in danger, and Jamie, as her husband, had to let her know. I think Jamie may not have done this if there weren't so many eyes looking down on him for retribution. (NT) -- LisaW, 11:13:42 02/04/10 Thu
  • Didn't bother me either. For one thing, we see that's the culture of the clan life. Laoghaire was almost whipped in front of all of Leoch if Jamie hadn't stepped in & taken her punishment. Claire put the whole group in danger, and had she not been married to Jamie, Dougal would have done far worse (thinking of his initial threats to her if she tried to run). She was considered Jamie's property, and therefore it was up to him to discipline her. Upon further readings I actually find this whole bit humorous. (NT) -- Tess, 11:28:47 02/04/10 Thu
  • Nope, didn't bother me at all. Claire was warned, but she ran off anyway. For that particular time and place, it was absolutely justified. (NT) -- ladyphantom, 16:27:06 02/04/10 Thu
  • I also agree with Gwen here. Acceptable for the times, and the other men were watching. For Jamie not to have beaten her would have been unrealistic. (NT) -- Lemora, 19:41:48 02/05/10 Fri
  • Well it bothered me. I had an instant, visceral reaction of such anger I threw the book against the wall and it laid on the floor for over a week. But I couldn't quit thinking about the d**n book. When I finally got control of my temper, I thought all the things you folks mentioned above, trying to figure out why I was upset. I wasn't perturbed by the thrashing, I went ballistic because JAMIE did it. I had accepted him as a hero, heros can use violence in defense, but to beat Claire was the act of a thug. I had trouble seeing a hero I liked act like a bully. I was upset that I still kind of liked him and that didn't fit with the person I thought I was. When I couldn't quit thinking about that *&#! book, I picked it up and read on. This scene and Claire's thoughts on the night march changed this book from a rip-roaring, enjoyable adventure tale to a thought provoking deeper literature. Ten books later, I can't wait for the next words DG writes. Accolades to the author of the century. (NT) -- Carol P, 09:17:05 02/07/10 Sun
• Yoohoo!! Right here, I cried the first time & every time since. I understood why Jamie did it. I can even see reason in it. It's the same thing a parent does to a child, the law does to criminals, BUT for me Jamie did NOT protect her when he gave her a whipping. This all stemmed from her fear of being left alone and of course trying to get back to her time. What I thought was hypocritical was that Jamie acknowledged that she had a fear from the time they were held at gun point and she was almost raped. In his mind he had a reason of where this stemmed from and it was justified but then he still belts her to make sure she gets the message. She begged him to go and he said no, for good reason. But good or bad he was partly to blame for this so I don't think he should have done this. He did not perform is role of PROTECTING her. IMHO!!! (NT) -- Latinlassie, 10:32:33 02/04/10 Thu
• As for the whole scene later, where some believe it was rape....well lassies, I find that scene incredibly erotic!! I LOVE that scene!! I love all the details, the basic human instincts that are involved in that scene. LOVE IT!!! (NT) -- Latinlassie, 10:33:50 02/04/10 Thu
  • I agree, it was *so* not rape and incredibly erotic. (NT) -- DawnW., 13:38:43 02/04/10 Thu
    • I agree to mucho erotic!!!!! (NT) -- BrandyC, 13:51:27 02/04/10 Thu
  • I don't like this scene. I don't think it's rape, but I am not a fan of the rough stuff. I was wondering what Claire'd do if she got cystitis. (NT) -- Lemora, 19:44:13 02/05/10 Fri
• I think that Jamie was very young and just didn't know what to do with a woman like Claire. I think that Jamie not being able to control Claire is frustraing to Jamie...but also attractive to him. I think that he regretted whipping Claire...but I think that he enjoys the memory of it... (NT) -- Dana, 10:45:03 02/04/10 Thu
• That scene didn't bother me as much as later when Jamie realized why Claire ran away and then felt guilty for beating her for it. Either she deserved it or not, whether she had a reason doesn't matter, I'm not making a lot of sense but Im not sure how else to say that. As far as the physical punishment issue, it was a physical time, death came easy, it was just the times, if Jamie had let her 'go'it would have been less believable. (NT) -- jayn, 11:17:09 02/04/10 Thu
• It's funny--I'm not so much bothered by the fact that he beat her, but his reaction the next day, when he clucked her on the chin before going to breakfast. I think that one paragraph bothered me more than the beating itself! Thanks everyone for giving your viewpoints. I agree that the beating was a sign o' the times; I'm just amazed at my own reaction to it! (NT) -- AJ, 12:35:45 02/04/10 Thu
• I found the whole beating scene highly erotic (as I do the "raping" scene later at the castle). Maybe it's the whole, take charge, take control kind of thing that I find hot...I don't know. The next day when Jamie and Claire are walking and talking, I found to be extremely romantic and sweet...Jamie telling her of his own "beating" stories and just being totally honest with her. (NT) -- krissn78, 21:25:48 02/05/10 Fri
• I didn't cry. I got ANGRY. I still have issues with the beating, and when I think of this scene and the scenes after, I feel a burning rage at Jamie for it. I even understand why he did it, but I just can't completely forgive him. I still love his character, I just also think that he definitely has his flaws. As for Claire, I was ticked that she forgave him so easily. And as for the "rape," no I did not see that as a rape. He did ask her first if she will have him and then warned her that he could not be gentle about it. It could have been a very hot scene, too, but it was just too damn close to the beating for me, which made it a little uncomfortable for me to read. BTW, after the beating, I did not truly begin to like him again until he came through for her during the witch trial. (NT) -- hosed lurker, 20:37:29 02/08/10 Mon

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• I should have added it's by Vicki Leon... (NT) -- devenhuis, 00:17:42 02/04/10 Thu
• I'll look for it - I love uppity women! (NT) -- kgp, 05:36:05 02/04/10 Thu
• Sound like my kind of book. I just put a reserve on it through my library :-) (NT) -- LizT, 06:36:59 02/04/10 Thu
• Sounds great! See inside for another female Rev War hero!! >>>>>> -- Piper-Mom, 07:17:40 02/04/10 Thu
  • Wow, I had no idea. Women Rock!! Thanks Vicki! (NT) -- LisaW, 08:16:22 02/04/10 Thu
    • Oh my! This gave me goose bumps and brought tears to my eyes. What a brave little woman! (NT) -- Cyndi, 09:10:21 02/04/10 Thu
      • They have made a movie about her. : ) It is to be released in March, I believe. (NT) -- Piper-Mom, 09:11:37 02/04/10 Thu
  • Excellent!! Love feisty Nutmegger women. (NT) -- kgp, 18:23:27 02/04/10 Thu
  • She's in the book--and if I recall rightly, is mentioned as having completed the job Paul Revere couldn't! (NT) -- devenhuis, 00:15:53 02/05/10 Fri

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• This is just so sweet. Isn't Jamie the most romantic man EVER? I believe also by this stage he knows that the end is inevitable and that he must part with Claire soon... (NT) -- Chrissylass, 01:40:44 02/04/10 Thu
• Sigh...how incredibly beautiful and romantic! (NT) -- WeeWelshLass, 03:32:58 02/04/10 Thu
• I loved loved loved this quote. And he certainly does haunt her dreams as evidenced by the dream she had in the very beginning of this book. He can come haunt my dreams anytime. (NT) -- MonicaW, 05:12:56 02/04/10 Thu
• Heartbreakingly sweet!!! (NT) -- Whiskey Eyes, 05:51:39 02/04/10 Thu
  • Amen to that! (NT) -- Piper-Mom, 07:19:33 02/04/10 Thu
• I always loved this moment, it is so sweet to see Jamie overflowing with love for Claire. (NT) -- LisaW, 06:44:50 02/04/10 Thu
• Beautiful! This part always reminds me of Jenny explaining to Claire, shortly before J and C leave Lallybroch for war why Jamie could share his innermost feelings with wee Kathryn when they both couldn't sleep. (NT) -- fionaj, 06:48:43 02/04/10 Thu
  • Not to go off topic, but, to me, that scene at Lallybroch with Kathryn and Jamie is one of the most touching in the entire series. If I directed a movie of that book, I know just how I would do that scene. Damn.... (NT) -- AJ, 07:16:16 02/04/10 Thu
    • I'd love to see what you would do with it. (NT) -- DawnW., 07:40:01 02/04/10 Thu
    • I know just what you mean AJ, that is one of the scenes I can see very plainly in my mind. The window, the shadow of Jamie with the wee one on his lap. (NT) -- LisaW, 08:18:45 02/04/10 Thu
      • Yes! I picture him seated by the window with his legs drawn up and the baby resting against his knees. He's got his head bent, whispering, and the tears are falling down his cheeks. DG describes it so well that's it's hard to improve on the visual of it, but I'd sure like to be on a movie set to try! All in all, it's one of the most beautiful images from the stories. (NT) -- AJ, 08:28:53 02/04/10 Thu
• This part just breaks my heart. This is what sets these books apart for me, this heartbreaking honesty. Like Chrissylass says above, I think he knows the end is coming. To find a way to prepare himself for what must come by speaking his heart to his wife while she sleeps....well. That's the goods, right there. Beautiful. (NT) -- Erin McN, 18:12:50 02/04/10 Thu

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• Wow, that's freaky! I know that J & C aren't real people, but it feels right that their love is still so strong after 20 years. All of those flashback scenes in Voyager and you can almost feel how bereft Claire is without Jamie, living in the apt in Boston. I cried right along with her for all she had lost. (NT) -- AJ, 19:06:05 02/03/10 Wed
• I'm wondering if the Times will follow up on it. I think the daughters had something to do with it. I wonder what they did with the poor man. (NT) -- Lemora, 08:09:21 02/07/10 Sun

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• Ahh... Roger *swoon* This passage right here has always made my heart flutter, if not more. To me, this is the moment he's proven his strength as a man; different than Jamie's apparent fierce strength, but strength nonetheless. Ahh... Roger... (NT) -- MariaM, 23:15:31 02/02/10 Tue
• This moment always makes me catch my breath. I love Roger!! (NT) -- Whiskey Eyes, 05:34:50 02/03/10 Wed
• I love Roger!!! : ) Yes, he is strong.... in his own way. Gentle strength.... yet fierce when he needs to be. (NT) -- Piper-Mom, 06:25:44 02/03/10 Wed
• Roger, that man, yes! (NT) -- LisaW, 06:44:00 02/03/10 Wed
• AHHHH!!! love it (NT) -- BrandyC, 06:55:01 02/03/10 Wed
• I was so happy that he finally decided to clear up matters between them, and he did it so beautifully. (NT) -- kgp, 12:54:10 02/03/10 Wed
• I'm not afraid, Roger - I feel anything you want me to!!! ;o) (NT) -- lori v, 13:49:52 02/03/10 Wed
• I love Roger! Brianna, however, is another story, but I do love Roger, for all of his "don't-ness" (I forgot who said that recently). (NT) -- WeeWelshLass, 16:46:07 02/03/10 Wed
• * sigh* Aye Roger, I can feel your hewartbeat. (NT) -- Miss Michele, 17:12:36 02/03/10 Wed
  • spellcheck Michele, spellcheck. (NT) -- Miss Michele, 08:43:45 02/04/10 Thu

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• I love it. It's great to have the Board up again. (NT) -- DawnW., 19:33:43 02/02/10 Tue
• Oh my!!!!!!!! My temp is rising!!!! HOT!!!!!!! :D (NT) -- Piper-Mom, 19:40:33 02/02/10 Tue
• Beautiful :) I always felt like DG writes really intense scenes that are not the typical smut; she's gets down to the barest, most intimate parts of her characters. I never feel like I'm reading about sex but about two people who made to be joined together as one. She really has no equal in her ability to do that (IMHO). (NT) -- AJ, 19:56:18 02/02/10 Tue
• Oh that was worth the wait!! (NT) -- LisaW, 21:12:12 02/02/10 Tue
• Yes... well... with phrases like "exquisite torture"... *phew* (rapidly fanning myself). That Jamie really knows how to... ahem... please... (NT) -- MariaM, 21:37:18 02/02/10 Tue
• I do love wednesdays. (NT) -- jayn, 04:39:30 02/03/10 Wed
• Ahhh the pleasure of Wednesday!! I missed my boards yesterday and am so happy they're back! (NT) -- CarolSR, 06:21:00 02/03/10 Wed
• I agree with AJ. DG writes erotic but not smutty. And no one does it better. And she can come up with so many different situations. It is just one of the things that makes the books so good. Love Wed. (NT) -- Lady Beth, 10:59:51 02/03/10 Wed
  • Yes, LB, erotic is the word I was going for. Thank you!!!! (NT) -- AJ, 14:32:29 02/03/10 Wed

• Claire actually says it in the last pages of the book. (NT) -- BrandyC, 19:40:12 02/02/10 Tue
  • pg. 975 in trade paperback Claire is standing with Jamie after the big house has burned and it is snowing. He took her in his arms and the breath of snow ashes cold around them...... (NT) -- BrandyC, 21:01:37 02/02/10 Tue
• Look inside for Diana's explanation of the "shape" of ABOSAA >>>>> -- Karen Henry, 04:21:16 02/03/10 Wed

• My only question about Willie in the Fog as a little kid at Helwater is: What stone circle is near to Helwater that we were never told about? I guess 'Echo' posting is okay here now.... (NT) -- Lemora, 09:12:39 02/01/10 Mon
• I don't know id he was referring to a stone circle...but I think he referred to rocks in general...the kind of rocks you find in the country side, I guess. He also heard voices in the Fog..his mum's voice, Geneva's. He said it was a sound without 'words'...I'm beginning to like Willie a lot...I'm glad he turned out to be a 'man' not some sissy...LJG is a man in spite of his sexual inclinations, and he did a great job at raising Willie...plus the traits that he inherited from both his biological parents... (NT) -- Ayira from Panama, 09:36:16 02/01/10 Mon
• There is a stone circle in the Lake District -- it's called Castlerigg :)I went there but couyldn't here them humming:( (NT) -- ali cat, 12:37:58 02/01/10 Mon

• LOL! Oh, I remember those days....Mac n Cheese for the kids night after night, no clean laundry, dirty house.... Fond memories! (NT) -- Mia, 05:42:38 02/01/10 Mon
• My husband is FINALLY reading the series also. He is on Dragonfly and he is enjoying it much better than Outlander. I think he will really enjoy the books as they get into the Revolutionary War stuff...he loves history:) (NT) -- Dana, 08:46:57 02/01/10 Mon

Last edited by author: Sun January 31, 2010 21:39:38   Edited 2 times.

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• This has made me bawled my eyes out. Every.time. (NT) -- MariaM, 20:18:39 01/31/10 Sun
• And again. (NT) -- Gayle, 20:35:31 01/31/10 Sun
• I just can't imagine how I'd deal with choosing such sacrifices. (NT) -- kgp, 05:22:01 02/01/10 Mon
• It beaks my heart every time I think of all those years of longing. And the way my (not so d) d is behaving today I'm not sure I'd go with Claire's choice *G*. (NT) -- jayn, 05:55:22 02/01/10 Mon
• What a hard choice, it would be hard to choose my child over my husband or vice versa. They both make me who I am. (NT) -- LisaW, 06:51:13 02/01/10 Mon
• I wouldn't have left. Selfish of me I know to choose my husband over my unborn child, but to leave him would be asking more than I could give. If it does make me selfish, so be it. He is quite simply, my life and I could not live without him. (NT) -- Rollaine, 07:02:28 02/01/10 Mon
  • I will agree with you if it was the matter of a choice between my husband and unborn child(pending the first child and I did not have children waiting for me somewhere) I would choose DH. I remember when we were in labor for our first chlid and all others, my husband told each doctor that if there was an emergency and the choice was child or mother, my DH always said my wife I cannot live without her. (NT) -- BrandyC, 09:11:32 02/01/10 Mon
• Believe me I've regretted my choices a number of times, especially now, seeing the way my oldest daughter and my only son are behaving...but it was my choice to birth them in the first place and I am sticking to my decision...It really wasn't a matter of choice...I knew if push came to shove, I was choosing my children. Regardless. Now I know that you raise your children for the world not to keep them...and at the end I will end up alone if I always choose them... I better begin to appreciate my H a bit more... (NT) -- Ayira from Panama, 08:17:23 02/01/10 Mon
• Voyager...hands down favorite of the series:) I remember when I read this...how heartbreaking for both Jamie and Claire...that their daughter was so far away and that Jamie would only know her through stories from Claire (or so we thought). How wonderful for Jamie that Bree knew about him, was proud of him, and entrusted him with her mother. How bittersweet that the child that could acknowledge him was 200 years away...I really hope that Bree will be reunited with her parents. What a gift for them...and us:) (NT) -- Dana, 08:57:08 02/01/10 Mon
• Claire told Bree she had hated her (pre-birth), in her grief because she had to leave Jamie to protect her. I think this was her statement to Bree, from a calm, mature viewpoint that the sacrifice she and Jamie made was great, but Bree was worth it. Bree probably needed to hear this. (NT) -- DawnW., 11:50:45 02/01/10 Mon
• I think it's really interesting that people seem to be one of two minds about Voyager: they either loved it so much that it's their favorite in the series, or they didn't care for it much at all. Out of all the books it's certainly the one that stressed me out the most, waiting for the ball to drop with all of Young Ian's "But what about...?" knowing that SOMETHING was going on. I enjoyed so much of that book, but it kept me awake thinking many a night! (NT) -- Erin McN, 14:04:02 02/01/10 Mon
  • AND...I DID NOT see the Laoghaire thing coming...I almost puked during that little scene...I think this is why I jumped ahead a little with the next books and I also read excerpts...my heart can't take a shock like that again:) Of course...the end of Echo almost had the same effect...but that is a whole other can of worms... (NT) -- Dana, 15:00:55 02/01/10 Mon
    • I didn't either! Aaaak. I nearly dropped the book. I mean, you expected another woman to be involved somehow, right? Just based on the behaviors of everyone else. But HER? Oy. (NT) -- Erin McN, 15:19:47 02/01/10 Mon

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• Thanks Karen, hope that let her go to sleep easier. :) (NT) -- LisaW, 08:32:28 01/31/10 Sun
• The link to my blog above has a typo in it - sorry about that! Look inside >>>>> for a working link. Thanks, Bedelia, for letting me know! -- Karen Henry, 16:25:01 01/31/10 Sun

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• This is one of the quotes that have stuck with me since the first time I read it, and always evoked strong emotion from me. So this week's theme is simply DG's written words that had made my heart flutter, my eyes bawl, and everything else in-between. (NT) -- MariaM, 23:52:59 01/30/10 Sat
  • Excellent theme! I can't wait. (NT) -- DawnW., 06:43:13 01/31/10 Sun
    • What she said, MariaM! (NT) -- fionaj, 07:43:28 01/31/10 Sun
  • This is going to be a fun week MariaM! I know what you mean, there are certain one liners that just catch me. (NT) -- LisaW, 08:34:46 01/31/10 Sun
• Beautiful. I really look forward to your week, Maria! (NT) -- ladyphantom, 07:56:10 01/31/10 Sun
• Swooning now.... (NT) -- Lady Grey, 08:37:16 01/31/10 Sun
• Looking forward to a great week! (NT) -- WeeWelshLass, 12:46:27 01/31/10 Sun

• On the Geillie TT issue: It's never too good to analyze Diana's timelines. But, my thought is that Geillie made a blood sacrifice of her yahoo husband, plus she had studied methods and requirements of going through the stones. So, maybe she deliberately steered herself to 1733 or so. She had already been back there for years before Claire got there in 1743. That's my theory. (NT) -- Lemora, 22:03:09 01/29/10 Fri
• About Laoghaire. Maybe marrying Jamie was a long-term dream come true, but the reality was that Jamie had no feelings for her. Anyone would become unhappy as the spouse was absent-minded and clearly he missed Claire all those years. There's some of this relationship in ABOSAA and a lot in the Echo. In ABOSAA Jamie said that he didn't care about L. even if she tried to annoy him, he wasn't tempted to discipline her. She didn't matter enough, hence the unhappiness. (NT) -- Helka, 22:47:21 01/29/10 Fri
  • I agree, Helka. Jamie didn't want to "possess" Laoghaire like he did Claire, and she could feel the difference. She was living a life in which she knew she was not as loved as a person who had been out of the picture for 20 years; and in a marriage based on Jamie's need to feel needed--a marriage based not on love but obligation. It would make anyone sad, I think. (NT) -- fionaj, 08:20:19 01/30/10 Sat
    • I agree. I think their marriage wound up being an honest try at a new beginning for both of them, but it turned out to be about as empty as a marriage could have been. I think it's good that Jamie was able at least to enjoy the fatherly part of it toward Marsali and Joan, though. By the way, hello, fionaj! Welcome back. (NT) -- Erin McN, 10:12:34 01/30/10 Sat
      • Thank you very much, Erin McN. :-) (NT) -- fionaj, 13:27:20 01/30/10 Sat
• Helka is right about Echo pretty having a lot of the Loaighaire explanation, but I think it was also partly taht she just wanted Jamie for so long then the reality wasn't the fun 20 year old she remembered. Culloden changed everything and maybe L didn't change with it. I think she is also a bit psycho. I think it said somewhere that Gellie was aiming wrong, there were others (Otter Tooth, Raymond and again a bit in Echo) who didn't go 202 years, I think 202 is the 'default' but steering is done by thinking of a person or time (someone else said this earlier on the Echo board, I am stealing your idea but I agree).. (NT) -- jayn, 05:31:42 01/30/10 Sat
  • I don't think anyone lives through something like Culloden and the Clearances and isn't changed by it. Laoghaire's first husband died at Culloden and her second husband was arrested so that their land could be seized and he died in prison, leaving her alone with two children. I'm pretty sure Geillie made a point to go further back than 202 years specifically because she wanted to change the outcome of the '45 [like Ottertooth tried to do with the Iroquois]. She used fire and blood to "steer" and I think had concentrated on Colum MacKenzie because he was Clan Chief. [She tells Claire in the thieve's hole -something like: "it was him that should have been mine...he was the fitting match for me", but she hadn't known about the disease, and settled for influencing Dougal instead. (NT) -- fionaj, 08:40:06 01/30/10 Sat
  • L seems to me to be immature and shallow. Not a good match for Jamie. (NT) -- Lady Grey, 09:50:17 01/30/10 Sat
    • Right. It goes along with what "Auld Alec" says in Outlander, about Jamie needing a woman, and that Laoghaire would be a girl forever (or something to that effect.) (NT) -- Erin McN, 13:29:13 01/30/10 Sat
• Jamie was desperately lonely, and saw that L needed someone. However Jamie never needed her and could never find the connection to please her so he gave up trying. L. needed someone to support her and her children, Jamie was a means to that end. Jamie's heart would always belong to Claire and L. would resent Jamie...and Claire for that matter because of it. (NT) -- CarolSR, 08:46:35 01/30/10 Sat
• I think there's more to it than "he didn't love her," or "her expectations were changed." They were both changed in the intervening 20 years. Laoghaire is a lot like Jenny in having never travelled outside her small area, only she was not nearly as educated as Jenny, so with all of Jamie's travels, education and experience, what could they possibly have in common anyway? Even if they loved each other, which they didn't, they had such a huge chasm between who and what they were, that I don't think they ever could have meshed. -- Missa, 09:52:42 01/30/10 Sat
• In ABOSAA, Marsali mentions to Claire a memory of when her mother was married before Jamie, and how the man (she can't remember which husband it was) hit Laoghaire against the fireplace. So maybe Laoghaire had some issues with men and marriage from previous experiences....that coupled with the fact that it was obvious Jamie didn't want to be with her. (NT) -- krissn78, 11:19:15 01/30/10 Sat
• Thank you all so much for your insights! (NT) -- AJ, 13:18:56 01/30/10 Sat
• Leoghaire also had some sexual issues too due to the way she was treated by previous husbands and she was also terrified of becoming pregnant again. She must have had a hard time with one of girls. (NT) -- Lady Elizabeth, 13:26:09 01/30/10 Sat

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• Oh, busybody Lizzie!! Why couldn't she have just kept her mouth shut instead of giving her interpretation of events? She ste the whole terrible set if incidents in motion. Great week of quotes, Dawn!! (NT) -- TerriC, 06:04:26 01/30/10 Sat
• You have selected many pivotal points, Dawn, and I've loved being aware of them again. But this one, This One . . . while there is an awful lot of bad luck and misadventures in the books, this is one that wouldn't have happened except for Lizzie's big mouth. And say, we don't see her have this much spunk again For Years, do we. (NT) -- Gayle, 06:56:24 01/30/10 Sat
  • That is what I was thinking Gayle, Lizzie was so shy and then she finally stands up and says the worst thing she could ever say. Darn her!! Great week Dawn! It was fun to see these moments when all changed for the characters. (NT) -- LisaW, 08:57:18 01/30/10 Sat
• Great week of quotes. I really enjoyed them! Thanks. (NT) -- Shel, 07:23:18 01/30/10 Sat
• Lizzie is visibly upset, and understanding things as she does, no wonder she is, imo. I agree with Whiskey Eyes that Jamie has 20 years of pent-up parenthood that comes bursting out here; but I also think that his response is partially due to his own experience at Wentworth. Oh, how different things would have been if people had just communicated with one another.... (NT) -- fionaj, 09:03:41 01/30/10 Sat
  • I agree his reaction is filtered through his Wentworth experience. (NT) -- DawnW., 09:21:15 01/30/10 Sat
• So many small things that led to such a huge mistake! Why didn't Roger say they were handfasted? Why didn't Brianna? Why didn't anyone think to mention to Jamie Roger was also a MacKenzie? Why didn't Claire tell Jamie about Bri and Bonnet? Why didn't Jamie and Ian drag Roger to the cabin after beating him to a pulp? (NT) -- kgp, 12:38:25 01/30/10 Sat
  • LOL! (NT) -- GN, 21:24:05 01/30/10 Sat
• I just want to tell Lizzie to shut the hell up! "Someday you're gonna expect people to accept the fact that you have two husbands, missy!" (NT) -- shy gal, 12:58:08 01/30/10 Sat

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• I hate to be a nay-sayer, but this scene kind of had me scratching my head. As keen a reader of other people as Jamie is, I would have thought he would have known something was ~off~ about the easy, open way Roger approached him to introduce himself. Would the man who had raped his daughter just walk up to him, confirmed his identity and offered his hand in greeting? Jamie can be so passionate and resolute when he wants to be, and maybe he's just blind as a rabid dog where his honor is concerned, but I think a ~little~ bell should have gone off in his head with Roger here. But then, I'm partial to Roger anyway so I just plain didn't appreciate his treatment at all. Still, Jamie should have sensed ~something~ and held himself in check. (NT) -- Missa, 17:49:31 01/28/10 Thu
  • I hated this whole scene, but I do understand why Jamie didn't recognize that Roger was very open with his greeting. Jamie has finally met the daughter he was sure he would never know. I think he's completely blinded by fatherhood. He has 20 years (or so) of parenting he feels he has missed, so I think he is just berserk with the thought that anyone would hurt his "little girl" and can't take time to listen to the little bells. (NT) -- Whiskey Eyes, 06:06:07 01/29/10 Fri
• RUN, ROGER!! RUN!!!!!! (NT) -- kgp, 17:50:37 01/28/10 Thu
  • Run, get the heck out of dodge... before these 2 barbarians beat the living sh*t out of you. *sigh* poor Roger. (NT) -- ladyphantom, 08:05:11 01/29/10 Fri
• And of course there was Ian, wanting the pleasure of blowing Roger's brains out. I would not want Ian and Jamie after me! (NT) -- DawnW., 18:02:58 01/28/10 Thu
• Jamie and Ian are a Deadly Duo... (NT) -- Lola, 18:34:49 01/28/10 Thu
  • Can you imagine running into those two in the woods?! Even Roger, who was of a same height, must of almost pooped his britches. :) (NT) -- LisaW, 06:57:33 01/29/10 Fri
• I too thought this situation was a bit contrived and unlike most of DG's story. If Roger had said "I came through the stones" this all would have been avoided but then so would a major storyline. Not only Roger's rescue but the growth of the relationship between Jamie and Roger. (NT) -- Lady Beth, 22:06:25 01/28/10 Thu
  • The growth of Roger and Jamie's relationship is one of my favorite parts in the books. Seeing the respect and then love grow between them was very real. I also loved when Roger watched Jamie and Claire to learn about a loving marriage. This was one of the reasons I really liked The Fiery Cross. I enjoy when Diana concentrates on their domesticity. (NT) -- DawnW., 07:08:15 01/29/10 Fri
    • Me too, I really love the time when Jamie and Roger go to buy Roger a sword. You can just see the two men understanding each other so well. (NT) -- LisaW, 07:23:29 01/29/10 Fri
• Once again I was hollering 'Roger say something' . Like 'Bee and I are married'. At least that would have made Jamie hesitate enough for Roger to explain, but, like last post - bingo, no story. (NT) -- jayn, 03:36:39 01/29/10 Fri
• I think one of the reasons I love Roger is because he's so "human", compared to Jaime, who rarely makes a misstep. Roger is more like most of us, fumbling our way through life, speaking up when we shouldn't , saying the wrong things, or keeping silent when we should speak up. He goes through so much. And in the end, earns an entirely new kind of respect. I love the LJG line near the end of ABOSAA, where he is observing the meeting between Briana and Willie, noting Roger's presence and making a mental observation that he's sired two children on Bree, which he considers a remarkable feat. (NT) -- jayne, 04:35:58 01/29/10 Fri
  • Haha, I love that part. I have this picture of a little weeny guy and a great huge goddess and him rogering (forgive the pun) her when she isn't looking and doesn't notice.. (NT) -- jayn, 05:41:48 01/29/10 Fri
  • I love LJG...and I tend to forget how gay he is and how in-love he is with Jamie, because he is so manly in everything else...I love his humour, his sarcasm, his loyalty...I REALLY, REALLY like him...and although I haven't gotten to "that" part on Echo, somehow it makes sense, in a way... (NT) -- Ayira from Panama, 06:51:52 01/29/10 Fri
• I always wondered why Roger didnt yell out that he and Bree were handfasted! I love it later when Jamie and Ian are searching for Roger and Bree sketches a picture of him and Ian "gulps" now recognizing the man they beat and sent off to the Indians. Poor Roger. I always felt he got a raw deal. (NT) -- CarolSR, 06:35:34 01/29/10 Fri
• I wished that Roger had said something like "Yes, MacKenzie, but you may know me as Wakefield." As WE says above, Jamie was blinded by fatherhood, and he wanted to protect his daughter. Lizzy had told him one thing, and Bree hadn't said anything, so all Jamie had was the knowledge that something bad had happened to Brianna, and he was going to take care of it. (NT) -- LisaW, 06:55:52 01/29/10 Fri
  • I always wanted to slap Lizzie silly...She had no business talking, and if she did it, she should have told Bree that she had talked to Jamie and told them all about the "rape"..no doubt Bree would have squashed her head in for butting in, but it would have opened the way...even if they had beaten Roger to a pulp and sent him to the indians...Her rage would have been epic... (NT) -- Ayira from Panama, 07:39:58 01/29/10 Fri
    • I was irritated with Lizzie, too. A personal servant shouldn't be revealing secrets about "a man's seed" being in her mistress' clothing to anyone, at all, ever! (NT) -- shy gal, 16:08:44 01/29/10 Fri
• When I first read this, I thought that Roger must be thinking, "What has Jamie done with Claire and Brianna?" It was the first time Roger met Jamie. Roger knew little about him. I guessed that was why Roger didn't speak up and defend himself. He was going to beat up Jamie and then go and rescue Claire and Brianna. (NT) -- DianeClaire, 10:21:59 01/29/10 Fri
• Does my previous post make sense? I always seem to have these strange ideas that no one else ever thinks of! LOL!! (NT) -- DianeClaire, 10:23:30 01/29/10 Fri
• Here my heart sinks to my guts. I had this in my QOTD as well as I had theme about Roger and Jamie, such a powerful moment. Great quote. (NT) -- Helka, 22:49:58 01/29/10 Fri

• In a a few moments you might want to check the Social Forum to see that pic of Jamie... (NT) -- Ayira from Panama, 14:33:30 01/28/10 Thu
  • Can't wait! (NT) -- Miss Michele, 15:41:17 01/28/10 Thu
• Very nice. Quite easy on the eyes! Thanks for posting. Yes, close. I guess it's just easier for me to imagine an older, more mature Jamie-closer to my own age. Your friend is close to a younger Jamie, though. Next pic, have him donn his kilt and plaids and lets have another look! :) (NT) -- Missa, 17:54:26 01/28/10 Thu
  • Well, he's not that young...he just turned 40, two days ago...so that would be close to Jamie's age before leaving Helwater? More or less? (NT) -- Ayira from Panama, 06:45:31 01/29/10 Fri

• Well . . . if he's not Jamie, I would be willing to pretend he is. He's a beautiful man! Forget the fact I've got underwear and shoes older than him! Heck, I could (biologically) be his grandmother if I had gotten an early start! No mind . . . he's lovely. (NT) -- CathyS, 15:25:00 01/25/10 Mon
  • He's a very pretty man, but he doesn't look Celtic at all to me. (NT) -- Tess, 06:59:02 01/26/10 Tue
• Very good looking...but I think he resembles more of Rogers description than Jamie. Then again, I find the description of Roger's looks much more my taste than Jamie. (NT) -- Rollaine, 15:27:01 01/25/10 Mon
  • He would make an excellent Roger. THUD (NT) -- ladyphantom, 16:05:38 01/25/10 Mon
    • Doesn't he look just like the description she wrote of Roger? (NT) -- Rollaine, 16:22:38 01/25/10 Mon
  • I have to agree Rollaine, he is more Roger for me. Make his eyes green and I could see that. (NT) -- LisaW, 17:12:54 01/26/10 Tue
• Ok, I could see that... -- Sheree, 15:28:39 01/25/10 Mon
• OMG, OMG,OMG...he is perfect, he is gorgeous! (NT) -- JanR, 15:28:49 01/25/10 Mon
• You made me laugh Ayira, if he changed his language and accent, haha. (Hmm, does Jamie have a Spanish accent in Panama, just checking?) He isn't my Jamie but I'll take him any time. I don't care if I'm old enough to be his mother. (NT) -- jayn, 15:31:07 01/25/10 Mon
  • I FOUND ROGER TOO - GOOGLE THIAGO LACERDA ...Jayn...Hmmm.nope..Jamie's accent is Scottish here in Panama...but...with his ability for languages, I bet he'll learn Spanish in a heartbeat and then he will speak it as if he just came from Market day in Madrid! to a Z! Isn't Giulio a sight for sore eyes? and yes he would make an excellent Roger...but I'm not worried about casting Roger. I have to admit that Eric Stoltz is verra close to my mental image of Older Jamie. BTW, Giulio "dirties" up really good...there's an image of him, bare chested and all sweaty...picture perfect ...perfect picture of Jamie after being flogged...still sexy...and his eyes are blue. (NT) -- Ayira from Panama, 06:06:15 01/26/10 Tue
• I had to laugh...some dedicated fan made a video montage of this guys pictures on youtube. search his name on there, it's funny. he's a hottie, that's for sure. but I have to agree with him being an excellent Roger, or maybe a William. I need a natural redhead to be my Jamie! However, I DO know who my Bree would be... Laura Prepon from That 70's Show. I watched a rerun of it last night, and I didn't realize until I was watching it that she was who I've imagined in my head all along. I have yet to find my perfect Jamie, but Eric Stoltz comes close! (NT) -- Alison CL, 15:50:38 01/25/10 Mon
  • I agree-Eric Stoltz does come close to what I picture him as. I must admit that Roger is much more my type-I always had a weakness for men with long dark hair :-). (NT) -- Rollaine, 15:53:35 01/25/10 Mon
    • Isn't Eric Stoltz a little too short and old for Jamie. (NT) -- Janet H., 16:32:59 01/25/10 Mon
      • Jamie is just about 55 or 56 now, Eric Stolz is 48. Just facially I think-he is one of the few natural red-headed actors out there, plus he has blue eyes. Just looked him up-says he's 6'. I never thought he was that tall either. (NT) -- Rollaine, 16:41:27 01/25/10 Mon
      • I dont think he's too old, especially not from the end of Drangonfly through Echo. He may be a little short, but definately facially he fits my image. He looks very Jamie-ish when he has facial hair. (NT) -- Alison CL, 17:26:01 01/25/10 Mon
    • That's so funny--no matter what I try, it's always Laura Prepon I picture, too! She is actually the ONLY character I can "see" when I'm reading. Jamie, Claire, and Roger are all pretty faceless to me, for some reason. I'm hoping that one day, when I "see" Jamie, I'll know it's him! :) (NT) -- AJ, 19:34:28 01/25/10 Mon
• His eyes are absolutely beautiful! (NT) -- CarolSR, 16:42:10 01/25/10 Mon
• There's an image on Compuserve posted by DG that shows her idea of what Jamie looks like, I must say the image was what I had in my head! (NT) -- Lynn, 03:48:01 01/26/10 Tue
  • Is there a link to this? I've not heard of Compuserve... (NT) -- Alison CL, 16:00:25 01/26/10 Tue
• Yum! Not just for breakfast anymore!!! (NT) -- kgp, 05:51:09 01/26/10 Tue
• Gee, all I got with that search was Killer Nun. A film BY Giulio Berruti, but not him. ??? What'd I do wrong? (NT) -- Gayle, 07:37:27 01/26/10 Tue
• Nah, he's not my Jamie. (NT) -- Gwen, 10:20:01 01/26/10 Tue
  • I don't see him as Jamie, either, but I can see him as Roger. (NT) -- Rollaine, 10:23:56 01/26/10 Tue
    • Girls, you are forgetting that Jamie and Roger Mac are BOTH Mackenzies...and they share basically the same physical traits, with the exception of the eyes. I think Giulio could play either one of them...casting a natural red-head is going to be the devil's work...I have an English friend who has amazing red hair...not only the color, but the texture, the lenghth, the thickness...and he has deep blue eyes...he could have been Jamie, now that I think of it... (NT) -- Ayira from Panama, 11:45:40 01/26/10 Tue
• For me, Gabriel Aubry is a close Jamie. He has the slanted cat eyes and the straight nose. Those are two features DG mentions often about Jamie. (NT) -- LisaW, 17:18:06 01/26/10 Tue
  • Looked up his pic and oh yeah he would make a great Jamie. (NT) -- BrandyC, 18:49:38 01/26/10 Tue
• Check out Kevin McKidd on Google as well. Saw him on Grey's Anatomy (here in the US)....he's a natural red-head, blue eyes and SCOTTISH!! Don't know how big he is, but he's the closest to my Jamie, although no one will ever be as perfect as the Jamie in my head....lol (NT) -- krissn78, 22:48:05 01/26/10 Tue
  • I found the pic of that friend of mine...it would be so funny if I could post it here...he's wearing sunglasses and a t-shirt...so it would be my version of Jamie in the 21st Century...if anyone wants to see that pic, email me...I'll be happy to oblige... (NT) -- Ayira from Panama, 14:15:59 01/28/10 Thu