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Date Posted: 03:40:14 02/15/10 Mon
Author: Tess
Subject: Mini-Reread for the Month of February, 2010: Claire and Lord John

This is my first time to host a Mini-Reread, so I hope that I've done things right.

The Relationship between Claire and Lord John

One aspect that draws me into Diana’s books is the way in which she depicts relationships between characters. Relationships are complex and fluid. People change and grow through age and experience, and the way that they interact with others does as well. One of the more fascinating depictions of relationships in the Outlander books is the one between Claire and Lord John. Their relationship exists greatly due to the connection each has with the other through Jamie, therefore, within a triangle.

Though they seem to have quite a bit in common, their interactions with one another are often complicated by jealousy and suspicion. What brings them together, their ties to Jamie, also keeps them apart in a way, causing the triangle to be incomplete. Both Claire and John have something unique that is shared with Jamie and not the other. For Claire, love, marriage, honesty, their child, create the solid line between her and Jamie. Between John and Jamie there is honor, the brotherhood of soldiers, friendship, and the illegitimate child of Jamie’s that John has taken to raise as his own which create the solid line connecting them. However, between John and Claire, there appears to have existed no connection apart from Jamie.


Reading Assignments:

LORD JOHN AND THE BROTHERHOOD OF THE BLADE, Chapter 21, ‘Cowardice,’ (hardback ed,) pp. 285 - 289.

VOYAGER, Chapter 48, ‘Moment of Grace.’

VOYAGER, Chapter 59, ‘In Which Much is Revealed.’

DRUMS OF AUTUMN, Chapter 26, ‘Plague and Pestilence,’ and Chapter 28, ‘Heated Conversation.’

DRUMS OF AUTUMN, Chapter 63, ‘Forgiveness.’ The conversation between Lord John and Claire.

AN ECHO IN THE BONE, Chapter 95, “Numbness.’



Discussion:

1) In BOTB, Lord John told Percy Wainwright about his humiliating encounter with Jamie and Claire in the woods in Scotland, when he was only sixteen. He spoke of it to Claire as well in VOYAGER. Claire’s comment to him was that he seemed to have forgiven Jamie for that encounter. Does it seem that Lord John held a grudge toward Claire for that night, out of proportion to her involvement in the events? Or was his evident resentment of her due to something else entirely?

2) Prior to Claire’s encounter with Lord John on the plague ship, Porpoise, when we only learn his identity after their encounter, we’ve seen him in the story as governor of Ardsmuir, and then briefly as Jamie’s sponsor at Helwater. At this point, we’re not yet aware of the friendship that had developed between the two men. What were your thoughts about the kind stranger before you learned his identity? What were your thoughts once you realized who he was?

3) In Chapter 59, ‘In Which Much is Revealed,’ Lord John and Claire have a very frank discussion about his connections with Jamie. What were your thoughts about John’s motives for revealing the existence of William to Claire? Was he trying to reassure her, or was it something else?

4) After Jamie and Claire have settled in the mountains of North Carolina, Lord John pays them a surprise visit, bringing his son William along with him. Claire finds herself the resentful caretaker of Lord John, who falls ill with the measles, while Jamie must depart for the Indian Village, taking young William with him. It seems out of her normal character for Claire to feel resentment toward a patient, but she does indeed find herself holding a grudge against John. Once Jamie is away, John and Claire have a very honest, if at times heated, confrontation about why he has come. What are your thoughts on how their time together as patient and caregiver, and the conversations they had, went toward forging a better understanding between them? How did you feel about John’s impromptu visit to the Ridge and the reason he gave for coming?

5) At the end of DRUMS, John and Claire part with a tentative acknowledgement of each one’s role as caretakers of those whom Jamie loves, perhaps a tentative liking for each other as well. The following two books sees the interaction mostly through letters and gifts. Claire still seems to harbor some mistrust of Lord John, particularly regarding his motives for sending Bobby Higgins to her for medical care. What were your thoughts about Claire’s suspicions in this circumstance, and about Jamie’s revelation of why he offered himself to John in thanks for taking care of William?

6) In AN ECHO IN THE BONE, John is in Philadelphia, seeking out medical help for his injured nephew Henry. He ponders the relationship between his nephew and his caretaker Mrs. Mercy Woodcock, which has plainly gone beyond the usual intimacy of a patient and nurse. He thinks of how this kind of attachment is common, and then when considering whether he himself has ever felt such a tendresse, he is startled that Claire Fraser suddenly comes to mind. In analyzing his feelings about her, he determines that it’s not really a tendresse that he has for her, but there is some sort of unsettling intimacy, though he is unsure why. He thinks perhaps it has something to do with his feelings for Jamie, and her knowledge of those feelings. It’s uncomfortable to contemplate, so he shoves those thoughts aside, focusing instead on her medical abilities.

Much later in the story, thinking Jamie dead and Claire in danger, John marries Claire in order to protect her as well as Fergus’ family, his last great service for Jamie Fraser.

What did you think of the gift of the medical chest John gave to Claire, as an indication of his understanding of her?

7) In one of the more controversial moments of the books, John and Claire awake after a long night in which both had been drinking and grieving Jamie’s death. Their alcohol-fueled vulnerable states led to a sexual encounter. Rather than bolting from one another, they have what is the most intimate conversation of their entire relationship. What was your reaction to this scene? Do you think their experiences during their brief marriage has changed anything in their relationship; do you think the triangle is now complete, with a solid line connecting John and Claire? What do you think John and Claire now share in their relationship that is separate from Jamie, if anything?

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Replies:

[> Tess, thank you for the thought provoking selections. The evolution of this relationship is one my favorite aspects of the books. In response to some of your questions: >>>>> See inside>>> -- DawnW., 09:50:11 02/16/10 Tue

I think very little of John's resentment of Claire had to do with their first meeting. A teenaged John made an heroic (and foolish) attempt to kill a villain and save a fair lady. Given some distance from this humiliating disaster, John is wise enough to blame himself, but he is still dismayed that the situation (and the Frasers) so defied his conventional expectations. This meeting really set the stage for his on-going relationship with Jamie and Claire. They never fit into the boxes John's up-bringing said they should have. At Ardsmuir John marveled over and fell in love with Jamie's wit, impressive education and compassion. Later he is repeatedly amazed by Claire's dedication to her work, which he first acknowledged on the plague ship, and her intelligence, courage and directness. Jamie and Claire's ability to defy John's expectations is part of why they, together and separately, fascinate him. Still,when John was relating this first meeting to Percy it was easier to have hard feelings for Claire, long dead, than towards Jamie, who he loved completely! But John is never one to shirk blame.
Of course Claire was not dead. Meeting her with Jamie in Jamaica shocked John to his core. Here was Jamie (unexpected joy!), but he was married. And not to just any woman, it was "that woman". John recognized her and must have recalled the longing with which Jamie had spoken of her. The ensuing conversation between John and Claire was fascinating. (For my money the conversations between John and Claire have been the jewels of the series, with the post-coital discussion in Echo as the most exquisite of all.) Yes, John begrudged Claire her place in Jamie's life and heart but the feeling was mutual! John told Claire about Willie both to acknowledge (I wouldn't say "reassure") that he and Jamie were not lovers _and_ to stake his own claim to being a permanent part of Jamie's life. A part Claire did not share or even know about. Instant rivals staking claims and sizing each other up! Claire came away knowing that there was no sexual relationship between Jamie and John, but she wasn't thrilled about the prospect of sharing any of Jamie's affection with John. As for John, if he had harbored any hopes of a relationship beyond friendship with Jamie, Claire's appearance crushed it.
The conversation in DOA during John's visit to the Ridge moved the two into a tenative relationship of their own. Claire's devoted nursing and John's honesty and openess led them to a grudging respect and even admiration for each other. Trust grew. They were able to acknowledge each other's intelligence, bravery and basic decency. They began to put aside their jealousy. If I were John I'd have gone to the Ridge. He was in an emotional crisis and solved it the only way he could. I probably wouldn't have had the guts to admit the truth of my motives to Claire as he did!
That visit didn't allay all of Claire's suspicions of John and she never hesitated to let Jamie know she wasn't convinced of John's character--as when she raised concerns about Bobby Higgins and William. Jamie, however, never failed to defend John.
I see the events of Echo as cementing John and Claire's personal friendship. I would be very surprised to see Claire ever doubt John's character again. John chose her to save his beloved nephew and showed he respected and understood Claire as a woman and a physician. I imagine his uneasiness in contemplating his feelings for her as his nurse were complicated by the knowledge that she, as well as Jamie, held his life in her hands (by knowing his greatest secrets: his homosexuality, his love for Jamie and the true parentage of William.) Yet, he trusts her. The gift of the medical chest showed he understood her calling to heal would help save her from her despair over Jamie's death (as well as indicating his willingness for his wife to work). He'd first recognized Claire's devotion to her work and rescued her from despair on the Porpoise and he did so again in Echo. All of John's gifts were wonderful, but it was the gift of himself that fateful night tht pulled her back from the edge and made her consider the future again. Their conversation the next morning made me laugh out loud and *sigh*. (Diana's work is masterful!) They accepted each other as individuals, accepted each other's place in Jamie's life and, yes, they have a personal intimacy now that Jamie is no part of (and I don't mean the sex.) They have had a marriage, however short. They have given and recieved kindness, emotional support, and friendship as well as sex. They will tell Jamie about it, but the reality is their's alone.
John is part of the Fraser family as never before and I think, in time, they will all be closer than ever. John, as Percy observed, is a protector. He may as well be the Frasers' guardian angel. He saved Jamie from transportation and possible death, saved Brianna from herself, Claire from arrest, prosecution and likely self-destruction, Fergus and family from arrest and gave William a fine life (and an impressive inheritance to come). If the Frasers needed anything to make life on the Ridge easier, John saw they had it and he always gave the best, especially the best of himself. (Did I mention I am a fan of John's?!) His love of Jamie was his initial motivation for involvment with the family, but it isn't only Jamie he loves now, is it?

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