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Broch Talk

Welcome to Broch Talk.

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Mini Re-reads - CatherineM and JessieR are ready to lead interesting discussions! Once a month we will focus on a specific character, place, or event by reading a small selection from the Books. The reading and topic will be posted on the 15th of the month and the discussion will begin one week later lasting until the end of the month.

LallyPolls: Rollaine and Lady Lukkarinen are our Pollsekteers. On the 1st of every month these dedicated Hosers will present a new question and some choices for answers. The poll will be open until the 8th of the month and then the results will be announced before the next poll is posted.

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Here is the tally for the October Poll: -- The Pollseketters, 13:06:04 11/07/07 Wed
A - 2
B - 26
C - 0
D - 0
E - 1
F - 3
G -31

Thanks for playing and stay tuned for November's Poll.

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Replies:
- ;) (NT) -- another fcf, 16:37:40 11/08/07 Thu
WELCOME TO THE OCTOBER POLL -- Pollsketeers, 13:56:32 10/17/07 Wed
HAPPY HALLOWEEN & SAMHAIN

This month's poll is all about creepy & spooky moments...

What was the spookiest/creepiest moment in the books for you?

A. Frank seeing Jamie's ghost
B. Claire seeing the Native American ghost in the woods
C. Jenny seeing Claire's "fetch" at Jamie & Loaghaire's wedding
D. Frank "kissing" Claire the morning of Bree's wedding
E. Jamie telling Claire that he felt Murtagh’s presence in battle
F. Claire examing Geille's skull in Voyager
G. Your creepy moment!

Please try to put the letter of your answer in your reply. It makes it easier to tally. Have fun & the poll will close in 7 days.

Many thanks to Joyce Mc for the help with the pumpkin picture!

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Replies:
- B. That was really spooky, the shoes, how they found her and the whole mood of the scene. Plus it ends with a nice mmmphhing!! (NT) -- Rollaine, 13:58:15 10/17/07 Wed
- B. Agreeing with Rollaine. I wasn't really spooked until the shoes (NT) -- FloraMac, 14:22:30 10/17/07 Wed
- G. The end of voyager when she encounters the crocodile. I have trouble reading it altogether. (NT) -- Bonnie N, 14:26:00 10/17/07 Wed
- B. It haunts me! ;o) (NT) -- LindaT, 14:36:57 10/17/07 Wed
- B. It definetly scared the *%$# out of me when the shoes were at the door. (NT) -- LisaW, 15:27:21 10/17/07 Wed
- Gotta go with "B." I agree, it was the shoes at the door & Rollo sensing something outside that made it spooky. "F" was also spooky when Claire realized during the hurricane just whose skull she'd been examining back in Boston! (NT) -- Page, 16:12:41 10/17/07 Wed
- G. When Claire is terrified by the "force" in the cave where Geillis has Young Ian, and at Roger's hanging -- not creepy, just horrible. (NT) -- Merrymags the Lurker (not lurking), 16:15:29 10/17/07 Wed
- G. When Margaret Campbell channels Bree at the crocodile fire in V. "Daddy?" *shiver* (It was a toss-up between that and Rollo with the shoes.) (NT) -- DonnaS, 16:57:23 10/17/07 Wed
  - that was really weird! (NT) -- susiej, 19:06:08 10/17/07 Wed
  - I agree Donna, that was a very weird and freaky scene. (NT) -- LisaW, 12:23:12 10/19/07 Fri
    - G. I agree with Donna, that was the first that came to my mind. Spooky, creepy and horrible. (NT) -- Kirsten, 12:29:06 10/25/07 Thu
  - G I totally agree! (NT) -- Lady Morilka, 07:23:06 10/26/07 Fri
- A: Just thinking about seeing Jamie's ghost *still* gives me the chills! (NT) -- bethistle, 17:26:29 10/17/07 Wed
- B I don't believe in ghosts and the rest I can explain away with logic. This one got really creepy when Jamie gave Claire her shoes. (NT) -- Carol P, 17:28:32 10/17/07 Wed
- B. Robert Springer was the only ghostly visit even a tiny bit scary, especially when Claire's shoes turned up back at the cabin. He might just have saved her life, so maybe scary isn't the correct word. (NT) -- Jane, 17:52:31 10/17/07 Wed
- G - the Something that chased Duncan home in the dark in Scotland (NT) -- Lady Cate, 18:17:45 10/17/07 Wed
  - THAT one gives me nightmares! (NT) -- LindaT, 14:06:40 10/24/07 Wed
- B. When she is hiding under the roots in the dark, AND finds the skull, AND the ghost comes, AND the shoes- must be my fear of the dark coming out, but YIKES! Gives me actual goosebumps every time! (NT) -- LissC, 18:49:16 10/17/07 Wed
  - B. This was the only ghost scene that spooked me but yes, it was all scary . I got creeped right away, by her just having to sit there alone in the dark watching the light come closer and knowing it couldn't be born by a human- eeek! (NT) -- susiej, 19:03:15 10/17/07 Wed
- G. The whole voodoo scene with Margaret Campbell. The croc head with the blood dripping down, biting the rooster's head off, and of course Margaret channeling Bree sends shivers down my spine each time I read it. I get the same topsy-turvy stomach feeling I get right before I get on a roller coaster. (NT) -- RisaB, 19:03:00 10/17/07 Wed
  - G--I'm with you, although I have to admit B is a very close second. (NT) -- Susannah, 05:49:12 10/18/07 Thu
  - G. Think I will go with the Margaret Campbell thing. That was just too weird! (NT) -- Piper Mom, 06:17:45 10/18/07 Thu
  - G. I had a terrible time reading the whole Margaret Campbell scene with the crocodile, blood, etc. - gave me the creeps!! (NT) -- ScarlettO, 09:31:21 10/18/07 Thu
  - Margaret Campbell gets my spook vote. (NT) -- AngieLass, 06:04:54 10/25/07 Thu
- Definitely B. Such a creepy, scary scene, especially, as other have said, when Jamie gives her her shoes! (Althogh I love the scene shortly thereafter when Jamie applies the goose grease; snerk!) (NT) -- Terri C, 19:03:03 10/17/07 Wed
- B: Finding the shoes at the cabin gives me goosebumps. (NT) -- JulieW, 20:44:39 10/17/07 Wed
- G. The whole Gellis scene in the cave. The wind screaming as they exited the cave and all. (NT) -- LadyDuBois, 05:01:09 10/18/07 Thu
  - G another vote for the cave scene here. *shudder* (NT) -- JustGina, 07:27:55 10/25/07 Thu
- G. Geillis in the cave for me, too. The cave's breathing, and "She's coming!" Shudder. (NT) -- shy gal, 05:11:36 10/18/07 Thu
- G: The ghost of Aaron Beardsley's first wife appearing and Fanny Beardsley's complete matter-of-factness about it. Yikes! (NT) -- ErinD, 05:29:36 10/18/07 Thu
  - G.) The Beardsley scene and his weird death freaked me out the most, too. (NT) -- Reilly, 05:34:38 10/18/07 Thu
  - I was going to say "B" but then I read your post and remembered this scene. I'm with you, "G" the ghost of the ex-Mrs Beardsley appearing to Fanny Beardsley was pretty creepy. (NT) -- alison, 05:56:26 10/18/07 Thu
  - G The Beardsley scene was my first thought on reading the question through too. (NT) -- Margy, 06:58:35 10/26/07 Fri
- B... that would be very creepy! (NT) -- JenK, 05:45:34 10/18/07 Thu
- B. Nice spooky story. (NT) -- Wee, 06:15:06 10/18/07 Thu
- F. The ghost sightings didn't really creep me out as they always seems to be good ghosts, but the witches skull was pretty creepy. (NT) -- LadyGrace, 06:45:52 10/18/07 Thu
- G - more than any ghostly apparition, it was the human acts of evil that scared me the most (potential spoilers inside) -- dea, 07:55:47 10/18/07 Thu
  - G - I'm with you on this one, dea! (NT) -- Pat, 02:25:26 10/19/07 Fri
- E. Just because Jamie states it so blandly, like "Oh, Murtagh's here." And even more creepy because my brain was working much along the same path as Claire's in the worry that Murtagh was there in anticipation of Jamie's death. (NT) -- RoxAnn E., 09:44:12 10/18/07 Thu
- B. I think the hairs on my body stood on end. Since we weren't sure who he was, it was extra scary. But even on rereads, I'm still spooked but at least he helped her. (NT) -- LadyBelle, 12:14:39 10/18/07 Thu
- F. Anything to do with Geille is creepy!!! (NT) -- SandyH, 12:17:07 10/18/07 Thu
  - F - The whole sequence with Geille in Voyager just creeped me out. Those puir Scottish lads. (NT) -- LizT, 18:25:28 10/19/07 Fri
- B. It was spooky while I was reading it and even more so when I realized it was a ghost and what happened with the shoes (NT) -- Patty McD, 14:04:10 10/18/07 Thu
- G: When Jamie is telling the story at the beginning of Drums about why what's his name (the guy who was hanged and they buried him themselves) was afraid of the dark, about how he met the ghost while out looking for his lost cow...The part when the thing followed him to his door.....SPOOKY!!! (NT) -- stillcleaning, 17:19:47 10/18/07 Thu
- G. When Margaret Campbell channels Bree in Voyager. When Margaret looked at Jamie and said "Daddy?" in Bree's voice, I felt my hairs stand up along with Claire and Jamie's! (NT) -- Lisser, 20:37:47 10/18/07 Thu
- G. I am with all the others regarding Margaret Campbell - that was creepy. Although the shoes is a close 2nd (NT) -- JackieR, 22:28:44 10/18/07 Thu
- G. The Margaret Campbell channeling thing was creepy for me too! (NT) -- Gina C, 04:44:38 10/19/07 Fri
- G. When Claire and Marsali are attacked and Claire is subsequently abducted and raped in ABOSAA. (NT) -- mommio, 07:12:13 10/19/07 Fri
- G. The spooky ghost that scared Gavin Hayes in the dark. Jamie tells the story in the beginning of DOA. (NT) -- Helka, 08:12:11 10/19/07 Fri
  - G) The scene Helka mentioned above is also my choice. (NT) -- Margit, 04:06:39 10/21/07 Sun
- Dang! There are a few I didn't think about - I won't change my answer (so the Pollsketeers don't kill me!) but the Gavin tannsig story and the ghosts of Beardsley wives also make my blood run cold! (NT) -- LissC, 13:41:33 10/19/07 Fri
- B. for sure (NT) -- Niseold, 09:16:25 10/22/07 Mon
- G. Creepiest is Margaret Campbell channeling Bree's voice. (NT) -- Ellen P., 17:37:20 10/22/07 Mon
- G. Escaping from the cave on Abandawe after Claire killed Gellie. As they (Claire, Jamie and Ian) run, Claire hears the cave and my blood ran cold. I thought that Claire killing Gellie was the "sacrifice" needed to open the time portal and that It was reaching out for Claire and might have taken her AND the other two. Not till they were out did I breathe easily. (NT) -- GwenM, 18:30:49 10/22/07 Mon
- B. -- and the thing with Claire's shoes ..... seriously weird .... and because most of the other "things" I could semi-dismiss (I'm not a paranormal phenomenon aficanado!) .... but the shoes were moved by SOMEONE!!! .... shiver! (NT) -- navine, 17:35:30 10/23/07 Tue
- spookiest/creepiest moment -- Kim L, 06:19:28 10/24/07 Wed
- B - that whole scene still freaks me out (NT) -- CindyS, 13:16:57 10/24/07 Wed
- b. The shoes made it the spookiest, I think. (NT) -- Cindy G, 15:50:40 10/24/07 Wed
- G for me -- Fanny Beardsley's story about Mary Ann, the ghost of the first wife. Margaret Campbell's seance is a verra close second! (NT) -- CatherineM., 17:22:53 10/24/07 Wed
- G. I'm with all the folks who said the story of Gavin's spook and why he was afraid of the dark. Bree speaking through Margaret is the second. (NT) -- Lady JenF, 18:27:00 10/24/07 Wed
- G. Gavin Hayes' tannasq. Him hearing the footsteps behind him and then turning around and seeing it all white with black empty eyes. Then him walking backward all the way home and how it jumped in between him and the door to his home when Gavin tried to turn around. Pure Evil!!! (NT) -- Stephanie M, 18:41:59 10/24/07 Wed
- B. you all have brought up some other creepy stories but this one is still the creepiest (NT) -- Ruthlass, 22:06:11 10/24/07 Wed
  - Definitely the tannasq - that was so creepy it was hard to read! =:-o (NT) -- stephL, 09:18:00 10/30/07 Tue
- B - Hands down!!! Just thinking about it gives me shivers! (NT) -- Ebitch, 23:26:52 10/24/07 Wed
- B. To have Claire realize she'd found another 'traveler' and he did not survive. (NT) -- Lady Lukkarinen, 07:17:31 10/25/07 Thu
- One story that hasn't been brought up is the whole sequence with the white bear- eating babies and all- horrible but to me the thing that was really creepy was the story Jo Beardsly told and I agreed with Bree's reaction to him. That's partly why he's always weirded me out. (NT) -- susiej, 07:39:53 10/25/07 Thu
- B. Holy Shamoley. I would not want to have been Claire at that moment. (NT) -- swarl, 16:25:24 10/25/07 Thu
- B. I still get shivers every time I think of it. At least the other wee ghosties were of people we know! (By the way, thanks to Jamie Fraser, I have a hard time discussing the supernatural without breaking out the phrase "wee ghosties" now.) (NT) -- Lynn H., 20:22:10 10/25/07 Thu
- B definitely! Great theme for the creepy season (NT) -- Cindy C, 20:40:45 10/25/07 Thu
- A. I just started my 3rd re-read, and the significance of it really hit me this time. The first time I read it, I didn't even catch it at all. DUH!! (NT) -- AmandaB, 21:32:52 10/25/07 Thu
- B. Definitely a scary moment. Most of the others were more of a curiosity (and some still are!) (NT) -- annieo, 07:13:37 10/26/07 Fri
- the poll -- Barb J., 13:06:16 10/27/07 Sat
October Broch Talk--“Secondary character--yes; minor character--never: Tom Christie in A Breath of Snow and Ashes -- JessieR & CatherineM, 09:56:13 09/24/07 Mon
A good novelist creates strong leading characters; a great novelist creates leading characters who settle in the marrow of your bones for months, perhaps even years. But great novelists aren’t stingy with the wizardry they use to fashion compelling protagonists. They extend it to the secondary characters that populate their novels and shape richly nuanced individuals who, while they may not run the show, bring vibrant color and gripping tension into the narrative. Such characters tend to draw out qualities in the protagonists that would otherwise go unaddressed, and by doing so help add layers to the theme and advance the plot. Think of Outlander without Murtagh, Dougal, Jenny, and Ian. Think of how impoverished this novel would be without them—how much less we would know about Jamie and Claire-- and when you do, it will be easy to see that the better-crafted secondary characters are never minor; they are simply major in a small way.

This month’s Broch Talk examines one such secondary character in particular: Tom Christie, whose limited presence in A Breath of Snow and Ashes has a major impact on the Fraser family. In the figure of Tom Christie, DG limns a fascinating psychological portrait of a man who covertly admires people he believes he should not like, producing a thoughtful study of one man’s struggle to retain control over his principles and behavior when he discovers he loves a woman he cannot have. By developing Tom Christie as she does, DG succeeds in doing something unusual for a novel: she creates a secondary character who evolves rather than remains static.

Secondary characters usually don’t change because they are often used to highlight, through their differences, certain aspects of the main characters. Tom Christie fulfills this purpose quite well by offering a productive counterpoint to several of the leads in A Breath of Snow and Ashes. His strict adherence to a rigid interpretation of Presbyterianism serves as a foil to Roger’s tolerant and flexible practice of the same faith. A Lowlander imprisoned for allegiance to the Jacobite cause, Christie is united with Jamie in principle. But we learn that Christie was not exactly a “team player” at Ardsmuir, so his appearance at Fraser’s Ridge resurrects old rivalries that prompt Jamie and him to lock horns on occasion, usually at moments when Christie is trying to face down his fears. Yet watching Jamie Fraser deal honorably with such a man gives us another opportunity to see how he can resist pettiness and do the right thing even when he doesn’t want to, and his magnanimity glows beside that of Tom Christie.

But it is through his relationship with Claire that Christie changes. Confounded by this assertive, intelligent, intrepid woman who refuses to cover her luxuriant hair, Christie bluntly castigates her for her nonconformity while finding himself and his family increasingly entwined in a relationship with her. At the end of the novel, we learn that his antipathy toward Claire masked an underlying desire for her that his principled life and fear of Jamie could never allow him to act upon. The only way he can express his love for her is through an act of sacrifice: he takes responsibility for Malva’s death so that Claire can go free. It is the experience of loving Claire that changes him from a self-centered man with an iron grip on his emotions to a human being whose passion and magnanimity nearly match Jamie’s in terms of what he is willing to do for the woman he loves. Claire, too, does not escape untouched. She is left to deal with her “part in this tragedy,” which is no small burden to shoulder.

Discussion Questions

First, as Arch Bug so aptly states, Tom Christie is “strange.” But is he depicted as so strange that his love for Claire seems implausible? As a reader, did you suspect him of loving Claire all along, or did it surprise you to learn that he could feel such affection for a woman who fails in so many ways to meet his notion of female respectability? If you were persuaded by the sudden revelation of his love for Claire, how did DG prepare you to accept such feelings as fully motivated in his character?

Second, what tragic implications do you see in Tom Christie’s life overall? Does the history of his sorry past—the betrayal of his brother and wife, the narrow understanding he has of women, and his unrequited love for the wife of a man he respects but also resents, bring him to a tragic end? Or is he ultimately redeemed by his deeply held religious convictions, convictions that kept him from acting inappropriately on his emotions and made him capable of making so great a sacrifice for Claire?

A BRIEF NOTE: The LOL guidelines discourage discussion of religion (for obvious reasons), and we want to emphasize that although Tom Christie’s faith is an important part of his character, we are not here to discuss the tenets of his faith nor the degree to which people should or should not believe in any religion. It’s the man, not the faith, that is the focus of our analysis.

To participate in Broch Talk, please read the following brief sections from several chapters of A Breath of Snow and Ashes. (Several of these chapters may yield new meaning to you when you reread them with knowledge of Christie’s attraction to Claire).

Discussion will begin next week on Monday, October 1st.

Chapter 21, “We Have Ignition,” pgs. 145-153
Chapter 23, “Anesthesia,” pgs. 158-170
Chapter 66, ‘The Dark Rises,” pgs. 581-583
Chapter 80, “The World Turned Upside Down,” pgs. 704-711
Chapter 87, “Justice Is Mine, Sayeth The Lord,” pgs. 756
Chapter 90, “Forty-Six Beans To The Good,” pgs. 766-769
Chapter 97, “For The Sake Of One Who Is,” pgs. 817-822

Last edited by author: Mon September 24, 2007 13:35:09 Edited 1 time.
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Replies:
- I know this hasn't started yet, but all I can say is I THOROUGHLY enjoyed reading your recap and analysis of Tom Christie, secondary characters, etc. It truly was a pleasure. Yer verra insightful and articulate lasses, Jessie and Catherine! (NT) -- Conmama, 11:17:02 09/24/07 Mon
  - Me too- that was just brilliant and so thorough; I'm awed. This is such a treat. I can't even tell you how much I appreciate it. (NT) -- susiej, 12:12:23 09/24/07 Mon
    - ps- I just noticed the Chapter title- the Dark Rises. Have any of you read that series ( youth, fantasy)? I bought it for my daughter at a church book sale but we've never started it. (NT) -- susiej, 12:14:30 09/24/07 Mon
      - Is the author Susan Cooper? Inside for more about her books>> -- Helka, 23:31:09 09/29/07 Sat
  - WOW, JessieR & CatherineM, you've knocked my socks off again! Thanks again for all the time and effort you both put into creating these amazing themes for discussion for us. (NT) -- Jane, 20:47:25 09/24/07 Mon
    - I like Tom Christie much more just reading this! (NT) -- Conmama, 07:53:49 09/25/07 Tue
- I think this topic may make me "unlurk". Tom's one of my favorite characters. There is such depth to all of these characters, I can't think of one that would be a 'knock-off'. (NT) -- JulieB, 12:27:36 09/25/07 Tue
- Well, I'm still in awe of the amazing discussion you all made happen the last time around, and so often day to day. And if we lure you out of lurkdom, so much the better! (NT) -- CatherineM., 21:01:47 09/25/07 Tue
- Ok, have we started? I'm going to have to respond now because I don't think my brain will be working by this afternoon (wee Frodo got us up in the wee hours. We are so much easier on this puppy then we ever were on our children!) I was not surprised at all by Tom's attraction to Claire. Beyone the fact that she is physically attractive to most men, she is also highly intelligent and Tom is too. However, the real issue for me was looking at his first wife. She was obviously an unusual woman and though we don't get much backstory, he seems to have chosen her. OK, I gotta go somebody's eating my computer wires! (NT) -- susiej, 06:49:08 10/01/07 Mon
  - Susie, tell me more about your pup! Congratulations! (NT) -- CatherineM., 19:08:20 10/01/07 Mon
    - weel, he's verra cute which is a good thing because otherwise I might have killed him last night. He looks exactly like a fox kit- he's a three month old Pomeranian named Frodo. We did not name him, but when we found him on the internet we figured it was fate. (NT) -- susiej, 13:06:45 10/02/07 Tue
      - Come inside>>> -- CatherineM. (dog lover), 17:17:01 10/03/07 Wed
- Tom -- Charlotte, 08:42:17 10/24/07 Wed
October Broch Talk: Rereading Tom Christie -- JessieR & CatherineM, 06:41:09 10/01/07 Mon
Many of us who post here are avid rereaders of The Books. Rereading is different from an initial, “virgin” encounter with a DG novel. That first encounter is usually a furious read where we can’t turn the pages fast enough, and everything we come across is new. The thrill of a first read is that we are still capable of being surprised by what we find on the page, but it is a thrill that can only happen once. We can never again read the book “for the first time.”

But rereads have their pleasures, too. We know “what happens next,” so we are more likely to pace ourselves, and in doing so discover subtleties in the text that escaped us at first. Rereading also means that we know things about characters that they don’t know yet, or even things they will ultimately reveal, which creates a type of situational irony: we know more than the characters do, which means that we react to them differently than we did on the first read.

Situational irony can have a powerful effect on a reread. It introduces contradiction into our interpretive acts as we watch characters do and say things we now know can be taken in different ways. Several memorable films have capitalized on this irony by shocking audiences with a surprise revelation that forever alters any subsequent viewings. If you have seen The Usual Suspects, The Sixth Sense, or The Crying Game, you’ll know that watching those films a second time is a like watching a different film. We are no longer caught up in the plot; instead, we scrutinize scenes like a detective, easily finding clues that point to the truth—now that we know what the truth really is.

The surprise works in each film because there is nothing that precedes it that renders the revelation as improbable or even impossible, an impressive coup given how shocked we often are by the revelation. The same holds true for novels that astonish us with an abrupt change in a character that few readers see coming. It takes an accomplished writer to pull this off because for the revelation to have its intended effect, readers need to be stunned, but not stunned into disbelief. In most cases, the writer has prepared readers to accept the change by covertly seeding the novel with clues to the character’s true nature, clues so subtle that they often only emerge on a reread.

A Breath of Snow and Ashes has several surprise revelations, but one of the biggest is Tom Christie’s love for Claire. The hidebound Tom is easy to dislike, given his rigidity and contempt for both Jamie and Catholic Highlanders in general, but the unexpected disclosure of his love for Claire and the sacrifice he is willing to make for her render him a sympathetic character. For readers to accept that such depth of love is possible in a man like Tom, there should be prior evidence that he is capable of such emotion.

In this round of Broch Talk, we’ll explore this evidence and assess how it works upon us as when we reread this novel. Were you convinced that Tom’s love for Claire was fully motivated in his character? There are plenty of clues to consider. Tom accompanies Jamie in his rescue of Claire from Brown and his men, an odd move given his discomfort at the sight of blood and his troubled relationship with a man he can only sarcastically refer to as Mac Dubh. Plus, when Claire repairs the injury to his incision that resulted from the rescue, he is embarrassed when she thanks him and begrudgingly accepts her offer to lend him Jamie’s copy of Tom Jones, a novel full of dramatic escapades and ribald sex. And finally, there is all that touching that goes on when Claire operates on his hand. In these oddly intimate moments, occasionally done in the presence of Jamie, is Christie uncomfortable because he fears pain, or is he uncomfortable because he’s trying to control his erotic response to the touch of a beautiful woman? What other evidence is there that Tom Christie is more sensual than we may have thought at first?

The more obvious traits of Tom Christie revolve around his relationship with his religion, which in the mind of Claire borders on a slavish and uncritical interpretation of the Bible. He makes for an interesting foil to Jamie Fraser and Roger MacKenzie, men of faith who are perhaps more nimble in integrating religion into their daily lives.

But Tom’s poignant revelation to Claire at the end of the novel tells us that he was more iceberg than icy adherent when it came to religion. He confesses that seeking God’s love alone was insufficient to sustain him. As readers, are we more shocked by this revelation than by his love for Claire? If so, why? How does the evidence that he was always a soul in struggle, yearning “for love given and returned” and trying his best to “give love to those who were not worthy of it,” affect our interpretation of him in the earlier sections of the novel? For all that Jamie is quick to stomp on any man who does more than glance approvingly at his wife, he accepts Tom Christie’s love for Claire without jealousy or anger. Why can he accept and even respect Tom’s feelings for Claire?

These questions and those listed below are now open for discussion.

Last edited by author: Mon October 01, 2007 07:32:18 Edited 1 time.
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WELCOME TO THE AUGUST POLL. -- Lady Lukkarinen, 08:17:46 08/20/07 Mon
This month we will pick our favorite Jenny moments. Which is your favorite?

A. Jenny tells Jamie that she has cried every day since the English took him away

B. Jenny tells Jamie to stop making love to his wife on the livingroom floor as it will give him splinters in his arse

C. Jenny gives Claire the Ivory braceletes on Quarter Day

D. Jenny tells Claire she will have babies of her own, it's just not her time

E. When Jenny must go back to her baby and leave Claire to find Jamie and asks Claire for advice for the future

F. When Jenny sends Mary McNabb to Jamie in the cave.

Please remember to put the letter at the beginning of your choice.

The poll closes on August 31.

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Replies:
- (NT) -- ;-), 23:17:54 08/24/07 Fri
- G) Other. When Jamie came from the cave and finds Jenny alone in the house and she makes him some meat pie (rabbit?). One of those moments Jenny admits, she also needs sometimes to be alone. I think this "need" is very common for most of us; even for a busy business woman or for a mother of grand family. (NT) -- Margit, 12:09:02 08/25/07 Sat
- A. This moment culminates the reconciliation/reunion between Jamie and Jenny, and I love how she summarizes it. (NT) -- teddie, 20:07:44 08/25/07 Sat
- B. So funny and perfectly "Jenny" but I also loved the sisterly bond in E. (NT) -- Patty McD, 14:33:13 08/27/07 Mon
- E) Here Jenny has to ask someone else (Claire) for advice, insteading of thinking she knows what is best for eveybody and every situation. (NT) -- GwenM, 14:15:22 08/29/07 Wed
- E....I think this one combines a couple of things close to me right now, but also because it shows a vulnerability in Jenny...making her more real...and a sisterly connection/trust with Claire. Just a note, though, I think...from what I remember, didn't Mary McNabb go to Jamie of her own accord as sort of a thank you to Jamie for giving her back her life (sort of giving him back himself), not that Jenny sent her? I could be wrong though. (NT) -- l.ali, 18:37:53 08/30/07 Thu
- The poll is now closed. Thanks for participating. (NT) -- The Pollsketeers, 06:58:08 08/31/07 Fri
- B. She understands the desire and probably has done it herself on occassion. It shows her humor as well as her tolerance of her younger brother's antics. I bet she's been reprimanding him for years and enjoying it. (NT) -- LadyBelle, 08:20:22 08/31/07 Fri
- The results of the August Poll: -- The Pollsketeers, 07:49:29 09/04/07 Tue
  - (NT) -- fcf, 09:36:28 09/11/07 Tue
    
    (NT) -- another FCF trying, 16:33:44 10/02/07 Tue

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