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Broch Talk Welcome to Broch Talk. Please do NOT originate posts on this board. Please use the Book Board for book posts, the Social Board for general hoserosity, the Joke Board for jokes, and so on. This board has a specific purpose: “A structured place for discussion of our favorite books," and we are sticking to it. Thank you. ~ : ~ Thanks for stopping by. Broch Talk is in limbo at the moment. As you can see in the archives, we have had polls, surveys, mini re-reads and trivia. If anyone has a burning desire to take the reins and start something, please contact me. :) ~ Judie Click on "contact forum admin" link above to e-mail me. How can YOU support the Ladies of Lallybroch? Click here to find out.

• WELCOME to the JUNE POLL!!! -- Pollsketeers, 11:05:12 06/02/08 Mon
  We are sorry we missed the May poll. One of us Pollskeeters had a computer crash here & had limited access to the internet. So here we are in June-a month for weddings and marriage. This months' poll is...
  
  Which marriage most closely resembles your own?
  
  A. Jamie & Claire
  B. Roger & Bree
  C. Marsali & Fergus
  D. Jenny & Ian
  E. Lizzy & the Twins :-)
  F. Jamie & Loaghaire
  G. Jocasta & Duncan
  H. The Bugs
  F. Or, are you a mix-you see elements of your marriage in each relationship?
  
  Have fun and the poll will close in 7 days!
  

  [ Edit | View ]
  
  Replies:

  • F. As a Pollsketeer, I'll get us started. I see elements of my marriage in Roger & Bree and Jamie & Claire. My DH's personality is very much like Roger-very calm, soothing, rational. I see him more in Roger's character than any other. Although I have a temper, I really don't relate to Bree. I have a temper like Jamie, but I can identify with Claire in many ways, too. I need my work-I cannot be defined solely as someone's wife or mother. Like Claire, I am passionate about what I do. And like Jamie and claire, my DH & I have an exremely open and honest relationship-we are practically connected! Like them, we are always together and spend most of our free time with each other & our kids. (NT) -- Rollaine, 11:12:12 06/02/08 Mon
  • Oh no-can't believe we forgot one...add (G) to the list: Claire and Frank! (NT) -- Pollsketeer, 11:13:43 06/02/08 Mon
  • F for DH and I, well, except for maybe Lizzie and the twins ;-}. My DH is a combination of Roger and Ian, I think, while I'm more a combo of Marsali and Jenny. Our relationship tho is more like Jamie and Claire's, except that with three kids, we never seem to be able to find time for mmmpphhhing as much as Jamie and Claire!!! lol (NT) -- Kim L, 11:26:00 06/02/08 Mon
    • lol, I'm meaning a combo of the relationships lol (NT) -- Kim L, 08:17:56 06/03/08 Tue
  • Errrm, you seem to have 2 Fs. When I read the two responses above and saw they had put F, I thought 'how awful - having a marriage like Jamie and Laoghaire - But no... Rollaine wouldn't say that - it can't be right!!! That's when I noticed the other F. (NT) -- Kirsten, 11:49:51 06/02/08 Mon
    • Gee...I count as well as I know th alphabet! That second "F"...well let's call that the combo "F" rather than "I". I think we'll get the right ones when we tally. Sorry about that!!! (NT) -- Rollaine, 12:38:57 06/02/08 Mon
  • G - unfortunately. Love, affection, friendship and regard for each other but one of us has been unable to complete for several years and apparently doesn't miss it enough to risk embarrassment at a doctor's office. (NT) -- Anon., please., 12:03:36 06/02/08 Mon
  • I'd say our marriage is a weird combination of Roger/Bree and Jenny/Ian. Like Roger, my long-suffering dh is often dumbfounded by my mercurial reaction to things and often wonders if he's up to the task of dealing with me. But then, after 42 years, we can also run like a well-oiled machine. And, for better or worse, I am a very strong-willed woman who knows how to take charge of a situation. Hmmm, I just realized in mulling it over, that Jenny and Bree have alot in common. It may be the very thing alot of us criticize the two of them for! (NT) -- Melina, 12:14:06 06/02/08 Mon
  • D. I basically gave now DH an ultimatum through his best friend. There was this unspoken understanding that we would get married, but DH needed the push to actually ask. (NT) -- LadyBelle, 12:30:27 06/02/08 Mon
  • I'm not married, so I can't vote ..... but I will check every now & again to see hwo, if anyone, chooses "E" --- and then read the explanation! (NT) -- navine, 12:37:35 06/02/08 Mon
    • That's funny! I'm curious too... (NT) -- Pollsketeers, 12:40:21 06/02/08 Mon
    • For all those who are not married...you could share what marraige you would like to have (if any!). (NT) -- Pollsketeers, 12:41:38 06/02/08 Mon
      • Recently separated. I'd love a marriage like Jamie and Claire's, but also enjoy indoor plumbing. (NT) -- LizT, 14:50:11 06/02/08 Mon
      • Being a single gal, I could try to handle a Roger... (NT) -- Chirre, 03:49:07 06/03/08 Tue
      • Since I'm just recently divorced (one month) I won't vote, but IF I could have my dream marriage it would be a mix of Jamie and Roger. I want my hubby to be everything Jamie is, but can sing like Roger. That way he can sing to me just before he has his way with me on the window sill! *BEG* (NT) -- Bandruidh, 17:41:49 06/27/08 Fri
  • Gosh, this one was really difficult for me. Do we have an other? Would that be J? I think DH and I are like Ian and Emily with me being Ian and him being Emily. We married young and we're crazy for each other and then, life, family, work got in the way and we don't seem to understand each other anymore. I think his family would like to send me back sometimes and sometimes I'd like to grab my few possessions and get the heck out, but unlike Ian and Em, we were not infertile. I've never thought about this before but maybe that's why I hope Ian and Emily will find each other again. (NT) -- susiej, 13:39:40 06/02/08 Mon
    • Sorry to hear that things are not ideal for you, susie. You do have the right to be happy and you certainly have the right to ask your in-laws to stay out of your marriage. Two is company but 3 or 4 is a pain in the arse. Fingers crossed that Ian and Emily meet again. (NT) -- Chriss, 17:40:52 06/14/08 Sat
  • H; there were things we each gave up for love of the other & we have always been verra loyal to one another. btw wouldn't Claire & Frank be J rather than another G? (NT) -- Ruthlass, 15:46:58 06/02/08 Mon
    • Oh, geez, I really screwed up the letters on this one! Maybe we should just write our choices !!! I did it at work, and well, I guess my brain can't multitask like it used to! Sorry about the confusion! (NT) -- Rollaine (I did it-can't blame the other Pollsketeer!), 17:15:56 06/02/08 Mon
  • (C) Marsali and Fergus, but with a reverse twist - the DH is my caretaker/caregiver rather than the other way around. And, the age difference is about the same between him and me. (NT) -- 'becca beccabee, 16:00:01 06/02/08 Mon
  • B. For a few reasons but here are the main ones. DD was three when we got married, and DH is a very patient man who puts up with me. I can be very insensitive to him at times, but I do love him fiercely. (NT) -- LisaW, 17:37:34 06/02/08 Mon
  • B. My DH pursued me (didn't let obstacles get in the way), he is older than me (10 years), he loves 'History' and he is a Pastor (Minister)! His love is strong, patient & constant. (NT) -- Janelle N, 18:03:19 06/02/08 Mon
  • D. I am the boss and my husband is content to let me run the show, for the most part. He is quiet and steady, let's me get away with murder, but when he wants something or feels strongly about something he let's me know. Then he gets his way...usually :). I can't help but recall here about when Jamie heard Ian spanking Jenny in the spirit of amorous fun. None of that here..although I will admit to deviling him sometimes just to get his dander up. It is a novelty to see him get really mad when he is usually so quiet. After 8 years, he knows I'm doing it and he's a good enough sport to play along. We anchor each other and compliment each other and still are hot for each other! God willing we will still be for many, many years. (NT) -- Lisa L., 19:40:36 06/02/08 Mon
  • F - the first F. Well, this is my formal announcement, I guess. After 32 years of marriage, DH and I are getting a divorce. He just never understood the more intimate side of marriage including conversation, disagreements, affection, child-rearing, etc. Everyone else thinks he's great, but they didn't have to live with him. (NT) -- tlk2vws, 19:42:43 06/02/08 Mon
    • ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((tlk2vws)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) (NT) -- MaryJ, 13:36:21 06/03/08 Tue
      • ((((((hugs)))))) I'm going through a divorce too. It isn't easy when others don't understand. Thank heavens for Lallypals and other friends. (NT) -- LizT, 14:12:41 06/03/08 Tue
        • I totally understand. My thoughts and prayers are with you and for the DH too- don't know what it is- sometime, they just can't get it. (NT) -- susiej, 11:17:04 06/04/08 Wed
    • (((((talk2vws))))))) I'm so sorry to hear this. Hugs and strength to you dear. (NT) -- Lady Lukkarinen, 07:29:10 06/20/08 Fri
  • G) Jocasta and Duncan I presuma - as long as it lasted. Not based on romantic love, but companionship, help and respect etc. How I feel that this question has been in the Poll quite recently? (NT) -- Margit, 22:15:30 06/02/08 Mon
    • Honestly, we were't sure if we asked this before. Sometimes it's hard to come up with something new every month! Hopefully we have some new people around who can particpate-even if we "recycle" some questions! (NT) -- Pollsketeers, 07:32:50 06/03/08 Tue
  • B: I can so relate to the whole breastfeeding saga that Bree went through & Roger had to 'grin & bear '. We have 4 kids & I think I must have breast fed for the better part of a decade, not the best thing for your love life! Anyway, now that part of our lives is over I would really like to aspire to having a marriage like J & C, as we grow old together. (NT) -- JulieW, 00:05:52 06/03/08 Tue
  • I would say mine is a mixture of A and B. He is strongwilled and sometimes gets very angry (thank god, for him, he never touches me than, just crashes things) so remindes me a bit of Jamie. But I'm not Claire ;) I am a lot more like Brianna and not just because I study the same subject. I don't need, and want, someone to protect me, that I can do myself, I have someone to lean on if I need it and he does the same. And like J&C we can talk about everything and are completly open when alone with each other, something that I allways felt was hard for B&R especially in the beginning. (NT) -- Lady Morilka, 00:53:32 06/03/08 Tue
  • B - but that may just be because I'm almost 6 feet tall. Actually I think that dh and I are relatively similar to Roger and Bree...with maybe a dash of Jenny and Ian. (NT) -- Anna, 08:38:46 06/03/08 Tue
  • D. Jenny/Ian....absolutely. (NT) -- Conmama, 08:42:53 06/03/08 Tue
  • Tough question. Maybe B, Bree and Roger, we're both quite tall and we got together at really young age and we got our DS as I was 21. I'm interested in studying, (not maths or physics though) but I'd also be around inventing easier ways to cope with everyday chores and I certainly would have problems in settling into a restricted womanly life. DH has some Jamielike qualities though, he's really warm to touch and physically strong, he used to be an athlete and he's well loved among his family. (NT) -- Helka, 09:07:37 06/03/08 Tue
  • Jenny & Ian. We both have our respective spheres of interest and influence but come together as a unit for the children. I'm actually quite a bit like Jenny (without the need to matchmake my brother, however). Anything to do with the family is where I excel and, never mess with my family. I can be as rabid as a bull-dog if you mess with the family. Did I tell you that I also have red-hair -- which means I have the temper and the stubborness. My DH quietly goes about taking care of business -- letting it seem like I run the show :) (NT) -- MEL, 09:26:51 06/03/08 Tue
  • D. Jenny and Ian. I am the fiery,impatient, stubborn, and often contrary one (apparent from my posts, maybe?!) and my DH is the calm, steady and constant one who softens me. I am the waves and he is my anchor. (NT) -- Chriss, 05:51:58 06/04/08 Wed
  • D - Jenny & Ian for us too. I'm very strong and family oriented and my DH is more laid back and willing to let me handle things. All though we do have some qualities of Bree and Roger too, but more Jenny and Ian. (NT) -- JenK, 06:20:18 06/04/08 Wed
  • A. Jamie and Claire. We've been blessed beyond messure. :-) ...... Anon from above and anyone else feel free too ..... -- Melva T, 16:29:57 06/04/08 Wed
  • Jenny and Ian. I'm more fiery, opinionated and mouthy. DH is much more tolerant and a nicer person. I tend to 'flash' and get over it - DH takes a lot to anger but longer to cool off. We balance very well - as long as we don't both lose it at the same time. Fortunately, that has only happened a few times. And . . . our kids are just like us. DD is the fiery one and DS is the slow burn. Interesting, I think. (NT) -- CathyS, 17:30:41 06/05/08 Thu
  • A - Jamie and Claire. We were one of the lucky ones. Both of us were stubborn, feisty and convinced of our own rightness, but we did talk - and listen - and it was always us as one being against any problem. And my DH was almost as poetic as Jamie at times. (NT) -- Carol P, 18:30:45 06/06/08 Fri
  • B. I'm a tomboy at heart and DH has a confident, yet gentle strength about him. (NT) -- AngieLass, 20:31:37 06/08/08 Sun
  • C. Fergus and Marsali - He loves me and the children, but definatley expects everthing to be done for him. And when you have done so for so long (16 yrs) its kinda hard to change it. He does work and bring home good money, so I just have to spend it from time to time to reward myself for being the cook/cleaner/nanny/gardner etc. Its not all bad - Love him to bits and would probably colllapse in a heap if I came home to a cleaned house with washing folded and put away :-) (NT) -- Lady Angel, 22:39:37 06/09/08 Mon
  • I have to say A although there are as many differences as similarities. The reason I chose Jamie and Claire, despite the fact that DH and I have had a very smooth road with none of the bumps they had, we get along really well and like each other a lot. Jamie and Claire clearly like and admire each other and have a strong physical attraction, and that's how DH and I have been from the start. We had chemistry from the get-go and were ready to get married within weeks of meeting each other although we waited 2 1/2 years for practical reasons. So because we were fortunate enough to find "the one" I'll say we're most like Jamie and Claire who are clearly "made for each other." (NT) -- Magdalene, 12:44:31 06/12/08 Thu
  • Definitely Claire and Jamie. We have been married for 23 yrs and I'm 2 and1/2 yrs older. Somehow I always know my dh will take care of me and I always try to take care of him (NT) -- MandyT, 23:02:05 06/12/08 Thu
  • A mixture of A and B - DH and I have that chemistry from the get-go too, and we were always, somehow, so transparent to each other that one's thought would be echoed through spoken words from the other (or basically, we said the exact same things at exactly the same time). I could also see though that DH was, sort of, like my own personal Roger (bar the green eyes and the height) - he was more romantic whilst me, like Bree, was more practical. He was more understanding and willing to 'leave me alone' at times even if he couldn't really understand why I needed the space. (NT) -- MariaM, 18:24:12 06/15/08 Sun
  • poll -- Maite, 23:06:23 06/21/08 Sat
  • We had passion for each other but it petered out -- Frances, 15:01:01 06/25/08 Wed
  
  
  

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• The Pollsketeers, as always, are right -- life does get in the way. Today is the 15th and, for two different reasons, Jessie and I do not have a fresh Broch Talk topic for you -- yet. So I'm glad the poll is on! Since November's amazing discussion -- amazing thanks to your participation -- we both have had big claims on our time. Jessie's mother passed away last Saturday after a long illness, and I would ask that you keep Jessie and her family in your thoughts and prayers. And we want your suggestions for new Broch Talk subjects: we have been so impressed with the comprehensive debates that play out here that we ourselves have run dry. Please send us you ideas and we'll resume leading these discussions, an activity we both hugely enjoy. So have fun with this week's poll, keep Jessie and her family in mind, and in the next couple of weeks, please think about and send us your ideas for fresh discussions. -- CatherineM., 05:38:16 04/15/08 Tue
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  Replies:
  • Inside this reply for my scrambled addy>>> -- CatherineM, 05:42:28 04/15/08 Tue
  • Jessie, I am so sorry to hear of your mom's passing. I will keep you and your family in my prayers. (NT) -- LisaW, 20:27:47 04/15/08 Tue
  • Oh, Jessie. I am so sorry. My thoughts and prayers are with you. (NT) -- susiej, 08:22:10 04/16/08 Wed
  • I don't know if these have been done before but I've always been intrigued by the idea (and we did discuss it a bit once on the BB) of how the great lover/heroes never have moms. Claire doesn't either. Yet, we know moms are verra, verra important to their development even if only by thier absence/death as in Claire's case. The other issue that intrigues me and someone (I think it was pamela) also brought this up once on the BB- the good witch, bad witch factor or Claire versus Geillis- how are women of power portrayed in DG's novels? She's a pretty powerful woman herself. Her novels turn romance on its ear- what is the result to her female characters. Even Bree has struck me as witchy at times. Jenny has the sight. Maybe it's just my fascination with fantasy but that element has always interested me in The Books, that touch of fantasy even though they aren't true fantasy. OK- well, I guess time travel is pretty fantastic, but you know what i mean- no wizards with wands. (NT) -- susiej, 08:36:04 04/16/08 Wed
    • Three fine ideas, Susie -- thanks! Jessie and I are always so astounded by how broadly and deeply our discussions go that we sometimes wonder if we've got anything new to offer at all -- everything seems to have been touched on, and sometimes touched on pretty decisively, including the times the converstaion gos in direction we have not anticipated (grins) . . . but we knew somebody like you would give us a new perspective! Thanks again. Keep 'em coming! (NT) -- CatherineM, 12:16:23 04/16/08 Wed
      • Women and female roles have been discussed in many ways, how about men and manhood. I'm always puzzled in reading how Claire describes Jamie "He's a man and that's no small thing to be." What was it to be a man at those days and what is it today? How's that for a Broch Talk topic? (NT) -- Helka, 04:26:58 04/18/08 Fri
        • very interesting idea Helka, especially when looked at in the light of Roger's experience and carrying it even farther the fact that both Bree and Claire are somewhat "masculine" for women of Jamie's time- Claire has her medical career, Bree is an engineer/inventor and has a sideline as an artist- they are both earning- both outspoken, etc. (NT) -- susiej, 09:04:03 04/18/08 Fri
          • I was just thinking for a moment about Claire and her timeless quality- she doesn't really belong to any one time. Even when we first meet her she seemed with her language and sexual forwardness to be ahead of her time- is it because she is written by a modern woman? Then when she returns and has Bree she raises her differently than women of that time- Claire nurses for example- is that again her progressive instinct or some pull from the past- same can be said for that early scene where she wore no panties to be with frank- did that come from her past? I'm always laughing at how easy it is for them and thinking underwear is overated. (NT) -- susiej, 09:09:06 04/18/08 Fri
  • how about the similarities/differences & relationship between roger and claire. i've always found it intriguing. they both tell 'their' story for the majority of the books. i'm not sure if maybe this has been discussed 'before my time here'. (NT) -- oorjanie, 21:25:50 04/26/08 Sat
    • I like that idea, I have always found the relationship between Claire and Roger fascinating. They both have such interesting qualities and there is a bond between them that is on the deeper side. (NT) -- LisaW, 10:17:28 04/27/08 Sun
  • Thanks, Ladies -- food for thought appreciated! Any more ideas? This will help us brainstorm a few or more sessions so that we don't come up empty again for a while! So keep 'em coming! (NT) -- CatherineM., 21:32:15 04/28/08 Mon
  • I don’t know if that has been discussed before but I’ve always been intrigued by the dynamics between Jamie and Roger. They didn’t have very good “first impressions” of each other. Maybe we could explore the way their relationship has evolved… (NT) -- Jay-Lee, 14:54:51 04/30/08 Wed
  • Hello all you patient Broch Talkers -- I hope you haven't given up on us! At the moment, I am trying to wrap up a crazy-busy school year (and I am retiring!), preparing for DD's summer wedding, and surviving renovations -- everything we own is in boxes or under tarps, so I am not getting much done other than the strictly survival-oriented basics. A Broch Talk coming soon, though . . . as Herself likes to say, "wait and see"! (NT) -- CatherineM., 07:21:15 06/07/08 Sat
  • How about a talk about all the diferent "jobs" Jaimie has held over the course of the books. he has been a soldier, a farmer, a ships kaiptain, a smuggler, a printer...... Which one suited him best? which on least? or in which would we have liked to see him more? (NT) -- Lady Morilka, 01:21:31 06/09/08 Mon
    • I like this-- thanks! (NT) -- CatherineM, 20:59:19 06/09/08 Mon
  
  
  

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• WELCOME THE APRIL POLL -- The Pollsketeers, 08:01:21 04/13/08 Sun
  Well, we were once again hoping to post for April 1st-April Fool's Day, but once again, life gets in the way! But, we are still sticking with our theme for the month!
  
  Who do you think is the biggest fool in the books?!
  
  A. Loaghaire-she had Jamie & screwed it up
  B. Geneva
  C. Phillip Wylie
  D. Major McDonald
  E. Mr. Willoubhy
  F. Mrs. Beardsley
  G. The McGillvary Boy who caught Syphllis (sorry the Pollsketeers memeories are failing them with names!)
  H. Duke of Sandringham
  I. Other
  
  Have fun choosing your fool! The pool will close in 7 days!
  

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  Replies:

  • C. Gotta go with him! What a jerk-esp to challenge Jamie & think he could win! (NT) -- Rollaine, 08:07:20 04/13/08 Sun
  • C. Yep, he just doesna learn not to cross Jamie. Oh and G is Manfred - he was a fool to screw up his mother's plans for him. I wouldn't want to get her on bad side. (NT) -- LadyBelle, 08:12:16 04/13/08 Sun
  • C. The guy was an idiot. (NT) -- LizT, 08:57:56 04/13/08 Sun
  • G, because he caused all sorts of problems for Claire and Jamie when he took off! He was afraid of what his mother would do/say to him, so the big coward ran away! (NT) -- KimL, 09:10:15 04/13/08 Sun
  • C. I agree, Wylie comes across as a total idiot. Can you imagine someone like that, in today's society, a 25-year-old making sexual advances to a married woman twice his age--when her husband is in the vicinity?! Wylie just had no common sense at all. (NT) -- Karen Henry, 11:49:08 04/13/08 Sun
    • You know, it probably happens in certain "circles." I think many 25 year old young men think they are quite the stud and feel as though the "older" woman on whom they are bestowing their attentions is quite lucky. And . . . that attention is likely returned by some women. But not in my circles, LOL! And the idea of a man wearing a false "beauty mark"??? Yuck! (NT) -- KathleenM, 15:13:10 04/13/08 Sun
    • Maybe the just want (s)mothering! (NT) -- LindaE, 13:55:20 04/18/08 Fri
  • G. Syphillis boy. What a moron. (NT) -- Magdalene, 13:49:02 04/13/08 Sun
    • LOL-syphillis boy!! Good one! (NT) -- Pollsketeer, 18:00:36 04/13/08 Sun
  • A. Gotta go with the biggest screw up of all times. (NT) -- LissC, 14:12:30 04/13/08 Sun
  • G - Manfred? (NT) -- kgp, 14:42:30 04/13/08 Sun
  • D. He was bested by both Adso and the white sow. (NT) -- Lynn H., 15:14:55 04/13/08 Sun
  • G. Manfred, not only does he screw up his own life but Lizzy, Claire, his own family and all the others he mmmphed with. (NT) -- LisaW, 15:22:40 04/13/08 Sun
    • I agree- Manfred was an idiot. I actually think Wylie had some sense- he knew an amazing woman when he saw one, no matter what her age! And he kept his dignity against both Roger and Jamie- a fairly formidable team. (NT) -- susiej, 08:25:10 04/16/08 Wed
  • C--Wylie always comes across as a fop to me. Laoghaire never really "had" Jamie and Geneva, like Manfred, is just young and rash. But Wylie is a fool in so many ways. (NT) -- KathleenM, 15:25:38 04/13/08 Sun
  • C. You convinced me. He never really learned not to cross Jamie. Of couse, if you are thinking of leople who are stupid enough to cross Jamie there are the group of men who abducted Claire, even after one of the men warned who her husband was. (NT) -- Ellen P., 16:04:57 04/13/08 Sun
  • C. Wylie seems to have had enough intelligence to NOT be a fool, and yet he chose that route anyway. (NT) -- Susannah, 16:43:21 04/13/08 Sun
  • G. Manfred AKA Freddie McGillvary Though Phillip Wylie runs a close second! (NT) -- Jane, 16:46:48 04/13/08 Sun
  • I - Charles Stuart, foolish enough to want to be King without knowing how to be king, and then being foolish enough to dismiss the help that might have actually made him king. (NT) -- Carol P, 16:58:49 04/13/08 Sun
    • So true, Carol. Charles' foolishness had a greater impact on more lives, too. (NT) -- KathleenM, 07:57:59 04/14/08 Mon
  • I - Charles Stuart for me too. Well said, Carol. My second choice would had been Wylie. KathleenM summed him up w/ a perfect word... fop! (NT) -- AngieLass, 17:12:57 04/13/08 Sun
  • C. for me, Wylie is such a Dandy. I love the way Claire and Dr Fentiman call him 'Puppy'. (NT) -- Janelle N, 18:10:33 04/13/08 Sun
  • C. for all the resons allready mentioned. He should have knowen better AND Claire gave him enough reasons to rethink but he didn't. That was just foolish. (NT) -- Lady Morilka, 00:27:24 04/14/08 Mon
  • C for me too! (NT) -- alison, 02:04:16 04/14/08 Mon
  • I. I agree, Charles Stuart. So young and immature, just wanting to be king, but never putting any real thought into what that meant or what it would take to get there. Living in a fairytale and ruined thousands of lives for it. (NT) -- Kat6, 02:25:59 04/14/08 Mon
  • D. McDonald is portrayed frequently as clumsy and prone to mishaps. Especially with cats and pigs!! (NT) -- SandyH, 08:57:02 04/14/08 Mon
  • C-Wylie. The Puppy was a moron! (NT) -- Cathryn L., 09:17:12 04/14/08 Mon
  • I. Charles Stuart for all the reasons above and because he escaped Scotland disguised as a woman while the brave Highlanders were hunted down and slaughtered. What a loser. And a fool. (NT) -- Chris, 11:31:51 04/14/08 Mon
  • I. Charles Stuart - not really committed and totally unrepared. The lives of so many husbands, fathers and sons needlessly lost. (NT) -- Lady Lukkarinen, 12:56:15 04/14/08 Mon
  • C. final answer (NT) -- LadyGrace, 13:05:37 04/14/08 Mon
  • I. Charles Stuart was a BIG TIME FOOL. The others were small "f" fools. (NT) -- Barb J, 15:14:13 04/14/08 Mon
  • C, the rest are bad guys he is the only fool (NT) -- Annabel, 14:55:14 04/15/08 Tue
  • DONNER gets my vote for the biggest fool! (NT) -- Tess, 15:39:21 04/15/08 Tue
  • G. Manfred was a fool because he caused so much trouble by running away when things could have been dealt with had a stayed (NT) -- Patty McD, 20:22:52 04/15/08 Tue
  • C....A fool if I ever saw one!!!!!! (NT) -- stillcleaning, 23:32:04 04/15/08 Tue
  • A: She had it all and lost it. (NT) -- LindaE, 13:48:44 04/16/08 Wed
  • G --- definitely (at least, for me!) ... because I feel most of the others were also mean, nasty, rotten, stupid, conniving, pathetic, or some mix of the above. Poor what'shisname (Manfred?) was just plain foolish (and pathetic and dumb). I find myself both feeling sorry for him and totally exasperated with him. (NT) -- navine, 07:33:31 04/17/08 Thu
  • I. Charles Stuart, for all the reasons given here. Besides, I LOVE Philip Wylie. I wish DG would give us more of him. Yes, he's a fop -- what did Claire call him? A Macaroni with cheese? Ha ha! But, he did have it in him to help Jamie and Roger at Wylie's Landing and Yes! He did make a mistake with Claire, but Claire also made the mistake of forgetting the mores and sensibilities of an 18th century, hot-blooded male (with a pink wig). (NT) -- Merrymags, 08:33:47 04/17/08 Thu
    • I sort of felt sorry for Wylie. He was so taken in by Claire's beauty & charm that he wasn't even put off by the fact that she was a bit older than he, and that she had a very large, very protective husband with a reputation for being very dangerous. I think Wylie just couldn't help himself. That's the funniest part of the story in FC for me. (NT) -- Tess, 13:06:14 04/17/08 Thu
      • I grew to love Philip in DOA and was absolutely convinced that it was his fingers that tiptoed through Claire's *two lips* until DG revealed it was Jamie....... I like that Philip is kind of goofy. Not every guy has it in himself to be Jamie. I pray that Diana will give us more of Philip in Echo. I'd like to learn of his outcome during the Revolution. (NT) -- Merrymags, 14:19:07 04/17/08 Thu
        • very interesting! As I said up above- Philip had the sense to know a great woman when he saw one. (NT) -- susiej, 15:07:08 04/17/08 Thu
          • He seemed to have a completely different persona when he was at his home and not out on the social scene playing the dandy. And while it certainly was an awkward circumstance to find Jamie & Roger apparently skulking around his property at night, I thought he was very hospitable toward them. (NT) -- Tess, 16:30:06 04/17/08 Thu
            • I just asked Diana over at CompuServe if we'll see more of Philip in Echo. She responded that, while she hasn't written anything specific to or of him, she's far from finished with Echo (drat!). She indicated there was a chance we'd see him again. Hooray! (NT) -- Merrymags, 17:34:56 04/17/08 Thu
          • I've been suspicious of Philip since he showed up at Jocasta's shed with Bonnet. I believe he was seriously mixed up with Bonnet and profited by that relationship. It would be hard to believe that smugglers would be using his dock and sheds without his knowledge. I also think he invited Jamie and Roger to the house with the intention of having them attacked and killed on the way there. Perhaps I am suspicious by nature and he is a kindly hearted fop, but I don't trust or like him. (NT) -- Jane, 05:57:56 04/18/08 Fri
            • No I think you are right. I believe somewhere in one of the letters to Jamie, when he was searching for Bonnet, that there was mention of some warehouse in a port in Scotland that Wylie has some ownership in. He definitely engages in some smuggling himself (thinking Russian boars and Russian ~people~) if not engaged in business with Bonnet precisely. (NT) -- Tess, 11:13:21 04/18/08 Fri
  • A. - but not really for the reason listed. I looked up the word "fool" on dictionary (dot) com and the first definition was "a silly or stupid person". Now I don't really know if Leghair is actually stupid, but I go back to old Alec's comment to Claire about Leghair being a girl and she always would be - for me, that fits the definition to a T. She grows up but she never matures - silly. (NT) -- lori v, 17:18:44 04/27/08 Sun
  • C - definitely. What was he thinking of, trying it on with Claire. (NT) -- Kirsten, 03:42:59 04/28/08 Mon
  • G. He never seemed to have a clue did he???? (NT) -- SheltieLass, 11:11:19 04/28/08 Mon
  • None of these would I describe as a fool. For me the greatest fool is the Mr. Brown who thought, he could fight against Jamie's rage after he abducted (and presumably raped) his wife. (NT) -- Margit, 11:12:19 04/28/08 Mon
  • The biggest fool -- ladyfaramir, 06:50:58 05/30/08 Fri
  
  
  

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• HERE ARE THE RESULTS OF THE APRIL POLL -- THE POLLSKETEERS, 09:36:20 05/13/08 Tue
  A - 3
  B
  C - 15
  D - 2
  E
  F
  G - 8
  H
  I - 9
  
  THANKS FOR PLAYING
  

  [ Edit | View ]
  
  Replies:

  • (NT) -- ffc, 22:05:41 05/13/08 Tue
    • testing (NT) -- Judie, 11:22:48 05/19/08 Mon
  
  
  

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• Debra Mc's Wee Trivia Game -- Debra Mc, 18:42:48 04/04/08 Fri
  The way this works: A question is posted about any of the first 6 books. If you are the first to answer it, you get to post the next question!
  
  Please respond using the "Post a Reply to This Message" versus replying to the message - this keeps the thread easy to read and not squeezed over to the right side of the board. Have fun!
  The first posts are an example of how it should look.
  
  I usually use the last question not answered from the last game, but I don't want to drive Jane crazy again!
  
  Have fun!
  

  [ Edit | View ]
  
  Replies:

  • Question: How many children do Jenny and Ian have? (NT) -- Debra Mc, 18:44:16 04/04/08 Fri
  • Answer: Seven! Question: What is Jamie's full name? (NT) -- Debra Mc, 18:45:51 04/04/08 Fri
  • answer: James Alexander Malcomn MacKenzie Fraser. (NT) -- jayne, 19:17:53 04/04/08 Fri
  • question: what is the name of the ship that abducts Ian in Voyager? (NT) -- jayne, 19:20:16 04/04/08 Fri
  • Answer: The Bruja. Question: Whose face was on a copper penny? (NT) -- tlk2vicki, 02:46:10 04/05/08 Sat
  • George III. What was the name of the young Captain of Porpoise (who "kidnapped" Claire=? (NT) -- Margit, 05:03:30 04/05/08 Sat
  • CAptain Leonard. Question: Where did Jamie get the white sow? (NT) -- cherylc, 05:40:58 04/05/08 Sat
    • From a Moravian settlement, in exchange for a bag of sweet yams and a bundle of willow-twig brooms. What is Claire's father's full name? (NT) -- Karen Henry, 06:56:52 04/05/08 Sat
  • Oops, sorry, let me do that again: Answer: From a Moravian settlement, in exchange for a bag of sweet yams and a bundle of willow-twig brooms. Question: What is Claire's father's full name? (NT) -- Karen Henry, 06:58:40 04/05/08 Sat
  • Answer: Henry Montmorency Beauchamp. Question: Where at River Run did C, B, and R set up Jemmy's croup tent? (This ? is in honour of my DD who had her 1st attack of croup last night - gack!) (NT) -- ErinD, 07:13:56 04/05/08 Sat
  • In the kitchen. (I just read that chapter this morning - what a coincidence!) What was the Fresian stallion's name? (NT) -- ScarlettO, 20:03:34 04/05/08 Sat
  • Answer: Lucas Question: How did Dougal find out that Claire wasn't an English spy? (NT) -- SueP, 03:57:23 04/06/08 Sun
  • Answer: she drank the water at the sulfur spring Question: Whose name did the man call out when he raped Claire? (NT) -- tlk2vicki, 06:40:39 04/06/08 Sun
    • Martha. Who was Uncle Angus in DOA? (NT) -- Helka, 08:50:24 04/06/08 Sun
  • Martha. Who was Uncle Angus in DOA? Now the question in in the right place. (NT) -- Helka, 08:52:05 04/06/08 Sun
  • A teddy bear. Who was Patrick O'Brian in the Books? (NT) -- Margit, 10:22:08 04/06/08 Sun
    • Are you referring to the Outlandish Companion as maybe a favorite author? Or an actual character in the novels? (NT) -- TheresaSt., 01:36:15 04/08/08 Tue
      • One of the fisherfolk that came to live on Fraser's Ridge? (Don't know offhand but the name is awfully familiar! :D) (NT) -- Rianna, 03:05:22 04/08/08 Tue
  • Captain Raines maybe? What were doits? (NT) -- Helka, 08:54:43 04/07/08 Mon
    • Captain Raines not correct. Try again! (NT) -- Margit, 10:14:50 04/07/08 Mon
  • Doits are copper coins that Jamie keeps in his sporran. Patrick O'Brian is the captain of the Phillip Alonzo, the ship Bree took to America and Uncle Angus is a stuffed scottie dog. Which of the twins does Lizzie marryfirst? (NT) -- Mary, 05:38:04 04/08/08 Tue
  • Answer : Kezzie. Question : What was the name of the ship that burned when Claire diagnosed one of the crew with small pox belonging to Comte St. Germain? (NT) -- Lisa L., 05:55:27 04/08/08 Tue
  • Answer: The Patagonia. Question: How did Mrs. Bug cure the man who went a month without a bowel movement? (NT) -- Mary, 06:39:04 04/08/08 Tue
    • To clarify, she was telling a story about when she was young. (NT) -- mary, 08:24:23 04/08/08 Tue
  • Answer: She said she'd marry him and not the other fellow! What was the name of the street C, F, and B lived on in Boston? (NT) -- ErinD, 09:06:49 04/08/08 Tue
  • Answer: Furey Street. Question: What made Brian sick the night Jamie was born? (NT) -- Mary, 10:56:19 04/08/08 Tue
  • raw gooseberry pie. What was the name of Jocasta's first husband? (NT) -- Margit, 11:29:42 04/08/08 Tue
  • Answer: John Cameron. Question: Who did Roger have a sword fight with in Cross Creek? (NT) -- Mary, 12:38:31 04/08/08 Tue
    • Dr Fentiman. What did Rosamund Lindsay die if? (NT) -- Jane, 16:33:13 04/08/08 Tue
  • An allergic reaction to penicillin. What does Ian show Bree in the rocks when they are away on their journey and he's told her about his daughter. (NT) -- Kim L, 18:57:59 04/08/08 Tue
  • Answer: A fossilized wooly mammoth. Question: Who is "a great one for the insurance" according to Fiona? (NT) -- ErinD, 19:30:59 04/08/08 Tue
  • Answer: Her husband Ernie. Question: What type of stone did Jemmy swallow? (NT) -- Mary, 05:33:31 04/09/08 Wed
    • A raw sapphire. What was the Rue Tremoulins? (NT) -- Jane, 06:10:02 04/09/08 Wed
  • Answer: the area were Jared lived in Paris. Question: who married Duncan and Jocasta? (NT) -- Mary, 06:25:13 04/09/08 Wed
  • Answer: Father LeClerc Question: An easy one! What was the name of Claire and Jamies social mule on the Ridge? (NT) -- Lisa L., 22:21:53 04/09/08 Wed
    • Clarence the Mule???...What were the first words Jamie used to describe Briana during their first encounter by the tree? (NT) -- TheresaSt., 01:38:51 04/10/08 Thu
      • This can be found in DOA (NT) -- TheresaSt., 01:41:18 04/10/08 Thu
  • Answer: "You're huge!" Question: How did Geillis make arsenic? (NT) -- tlk2vicki, 05:09:46 04/10/08 Thu
    • Answer: grinding peach pits. Question: What was the name of the designer who produced the dress Claire bought to go back through the stones to find Jamie? (NT) -- Lady Lukkarinen, 13:13:19 04/10/08 Thu
  • Jessica Gutenberg? (NT) -- ladyphantom, 14:38:10 04/10/08 Thu
    • You are correct, but forgot to include a question. (NT) -- Jane, 05:55:34 04/11/08 Fri
      • Jane, why not ask one yourself? I doubt Ladyphantom would mind. (NT) -- Mary, 06:35:05 04/11/08 Fri
      • What was the name of the English deserter who held the gun on Jamie, while his friend tried to rape Claire? (NT) -- ladyphantom, 06:47:30 04/11/08 Fri
        • Harry with the help of his "friend" Arnold. EWE! Who was Peter Bewlie? (NT) -- Jane, 06:53:58 04/11/08 Fri
  • Answer: I think he was the man on the ridge who was married to an indian. His brother-in-law came and asked Jamie to kill the "ghost bear" that was plaguing their village. If I'm wrong please disregard this question: What were the first names of the Murchison twins? (NT) -- Mary, 13:39:29 04/11/08 Fri
  • Answer: Robert and William. Question: What was written on Claire's eye chart? (NT) -- tlk2vicki, 20:45:39 04/11/08 Fri
    • Answer: Et tu Brute, Eat no onions & I honour him. Question: What is Claire's name in Gaelic? (NT) -- Janelle N, 04:01:26 04/12/08 Sat
  • Sorcha. Question: What is Roger's mom"s first name? (NT) -- Mary, 04:43:13 04/12/08 Sat
  • Answer, Marjorie : Question, What is the name of the taproom where Roger finds Brianna in Wilmington? (NT) -- LisaW, 08:38:52 04/12/08 Sat
    • Answer: The Blue Bull, What operation did Dr. Fentiman perform on Lord John that Claire asked to look at? (NT) -- Jane, 09:37:06 04/12/08 Sat
  • Answer: trephined his skull. Question: When will Claire come into her true power? (NT) -- tlk2vicki, 10:07:22 04/12/08 Sat
    • When her hair turns completely white. What sacrament did Roger perform in the Mohawk village? (NT) -- LadyBelle, 12:21:52 04/12/08 Sat
    • Answer, a Baptism : Question, What is on the crest that is on the note from William, when he sent the astrolabe to Jamie? (NT) -- LisaW, 13:12:43 04/12/08 Sat
  • Answer: A fish with a ring in its mouth. Question: Who is Laoghaire's brother? (NT) -- Janelle N, 18:18:55 04/12/08 Sat
  • Laoghaires's brothers name -- Heather P, 19:28:08 04/12/08 Sat
  • Answer: Hobart McKensie Question: What were the names of the Murchison twins? (One died at Ardsmuir and the other came to the colonies.) (NT) -- Lisa L., 06:59:26 04/13/08 Sun
    • Answer: Billie and Bobby, twin sadists. What was the name of the Chieftan's sister who led her brother's clansmen across the mountains to join Prince Charles? (NT) -- Jane, 07:52:42 04/13/08 Sun
  • Answer: Jenny Cameron. Question: Which MacKenzie clansman dies at Filkrik (NT) -- Angela, 18:51:50 04/13/08 Sun
  • Do you mean Falkirk? if so, Answer: Rupert MacKenzie. Question: What are the names of the 2 marble statues on Jocasta's lawns? (NT) -- Janelle N, 19:10:32 04/13/08 Sun
  • Perseus and Diana the Huntress (why didn't I notice that the first two times I read that chapter? *g*) What was the name of the Indian town to which Jamie, Claire, et. al. went to hunt the ghost bear? (NT) -- ScarlettO, 21:12:56 04/13/08 Sun
  • Answer: Kalanun'yi - Raventown. Question: What is the definition of the word 'Zugunruhe'? (this is like doing an open book exam!). (NT) -- Janelle N, 05:47:28 04/14/08 Mon
    • Answer: Unrest. Question: When were Ian and Jenny married? (NT) -- Jiisa, 15:59:20 04/14/08 Mon
    • Well done Jiisa, I was just checking in this morning to see if I needed to add a clue. The word is in TFC, Jamie is defining it for Claire. (NT) -- Janelle N, 18:02:54 04/14/08 Mon
  • Answer: St. Martin's Day. Question: Claire helped deliver a foal. What was the name of the mare? (NT) -- Mary, 05:58:58 04/15/08 Tue
    • Losgann, I broke my own rule never to look up any answers to get the spelling for that one. I knew it started with L and meant "frog" but didn't have a prayer of getting it right. So a simpler question...What were Roger and Jamie doing when the snake bit Jamie? (NT) -- Jane, 15:46:38 04/15/08 Tue
      • A: Running down a path, chasing a buffalo. Q: Which of Madame Jeanne's girls did Young Ian go with the night the print shop burned? (NT) -- LissC, 16:46:06 04/15/08 Tue
  • Answer: The second Mary (the small one with the yellow hair!). Question : What nickname do Jenny's grandchildren call Jamie? (NT) -- Janelle N, 18:42:22 04/15/08 Tue
  • Answer: Nunkie. Question: What kind of stone does Claire find with the skull the night she is thrown from her horse and sees a ghost? (NT) -- Lisa L., 06:32:17 04/16/08 Wed
    • A: an opal. Q: why does Raymond call Claire "Madonna"? (NT) -- devenhuis, 08:12:06 04/16/08 Wed
  • She's got the aura of dark blue (Madonna colour) - as Raymond himself. ... Unfortunately I have no further question. (NT) -- Margit, 08:53:57 04/16/08 Wed
    • OK, easy one, Q: What color does Raymond say Jamie is? (NT) -- LissC, 13:42:09 04/16/08 Wed
  • Answer: the red man. Question: What was Claire doing on her first anniversary with Jamie? (NT) -- Ellen P., 17:39:11 04/16/08 Wed
    • Answer: Recovering from her miscarriage, possibly sleeping with King Louis? What was the name of the country house Claire was staying in during this point in her life? (NT) -- Jane, 15:06:22 04/17/08 Thu
  • The game is over for now. Thanks for playing! (NT) -- Debra Mc, 10:56:04 04/19/08 Sat
  • Thanks Debra, as a newbie I have thoroughly enjoyed this quiz - can't wait for the next one! (NT) -- Janelle N, 21:17:14 04/19/08 Sat
    • Welcome Janelle! I'm glad you enjoyed it. (NT) -- Debra Mc, 18:18:07 04/20/08 Sun
  
  
  

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• Results of the March Poll -- The Pollsketeers, 12:58:30 04/04/08 Fri
  A-0
  B-1
  C-0
  D-0
  E-3
  F-0
  G-0
  H-1
  I-0
  J-0
  K-1
  L-33
  M-3
  N-0
  0-5
  
  Thanks for playing and stay tuned for next months poll
  

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  Replies:

  • Wow, are we in agreement this time or what!?! (NT) -- LissC, 07:03:25 04/05/08 Sat
  
  
  

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• WELCOME to the MARCH POLL -- Pollsketeers, 11:13:48 03/18/08 Tue
  This month's poll is all about treachery...we were hoping to post on the Ides of March, and well, things got in the way!
  
  So...what do you think is the most treacherous moment in the books?
  
  A. Geillie not telling Claire that she too was from the past
  B. McNabb turning Jamie in to the Redcoats
  C. The rape of Mary Dawkins
  D. Jamie maiming BJR after he had promised Claire he wouldn’t do it for the sake of Frank
  E. Jamie not telling Claire he had married Lagohaire
  F. Jamie not telling Claire he had a son by Geneva Dunsany
  G. Bonet raping Brianna
  H. Jamie selling Roger to the Indians
  I. Jocasta having the affair with her butler
  J. Duncan having the affair with Phaedre
  K. Claires abduction & rape
  L. Malva denouncing and turning on Claire and Jamie
  M. Jamie's torture and rape at the hands of BJR
  N. The Bugs having had a share of Prince Charlies gold
  O. Other
  
  Wow..there's lotsof treachery here! How can you pick one?!?! But, you must pick just one! The poll will close in 7 days.
  
  The results of the Febraury Poll appear in the last message in the Febraury Poll post.
  

  [ Edit | View ]
  
  Replies:

  • K. I have to go with this one, despite how horrible BJR was. I just found this entire part so difficult & painful. I think I was kind of exhausted for them...it seemed like everyone had been attacked and brutalized at some point. This one was a little too much for me. (NT) -- Rollaine, 11:21:27 03/18/08 Tue
  • Wow. I logged on for this very purpose. My stars must be aligned -- Ceann, 11:48:33 03/18/08 Tue
    • And now it appears I have forgotten how the boards work. Thats what I get for hiding. My answer is L Hands Down. When Malva said she wanted to be Claire I had no idea she meant it literally. She claimed to love Claire but wanted to steal her man. Tried to kill her and when that didn't work blamed Jamie for her own stupidity. Ghese, with loved ones like that who needs phosphorus? (NT) -- Ceann, 11:52:12 03/18/08 Tue
  • L ! ! ! I read thru the list thinking B because McNabb betrayed his laird & that was more "treacherous" than most of the others. But Malva's betrayal of Claire's love & trust was even worse. (NT) -- Ruthlass, 12:00:56 03/18/08 Tue
  • I'd have to go with L as well. It was such a deliberate piece of evil. (NT) -- Susannah, 12:16:15 03/18/08 Tue
  • L, followed very, very closely by K and H. What happened with Malva was just pure evil and totally despicable. (NT) -- Kim L, 12:27:56 03/18/08 Tue
  • L. followed by B. To me, treachery is the deliberate betrayal of trust by a friend, confidant, ally, etc. The options listed involve plenty of malice, lots of human stupidity, greed and self-serving interests but Malva's violation of Claire's love, attention and teaching contitutes real treachery. McNab's deliberate deliverance of Jamie into the hands of the English is second only b/c Jamie was not quite so altruistic towards him as Claire was towards Malva, but both actions were certainly treachery to me. (NT) -- KathleenM, 13:26:58 03/18/08 Tue
    • L - What Kathleen said about the meaning of treachery. (NT) -- Carol P, 18:57:41 03/18/08 Tue
      • L) Kathleen said all I thought about it. (NT) -- Margit, 11:21:54 03/19/08 Wed
    • L - 100% for the exact reasons Kathleen outlined above. I couldn't have expressed my thoughts better, myself! (NT) -- Terri C, 06:22:50 03/19/08 Wed
  • O. Malva giving Claire and her own father the meningitis. that was real betrayal, because Claire loved Malva. (NT) -- dea, 14:05:55 03/18/08 Tue
  • L. What a little ....Well, you get the point. When Malva betrayed Claire it felt as if she had betrayed ME. I was so happy for Claire to find an apprentice, a daughter of skill and profession, that had skipped over her own daughter. When Malva turned on her, I was so disgusted and shocked, I wanted to choke her myself :} (NT) -- Lisa L., 14:21:19 03/18/08 Tue
  • "O" Thinking back on the books, I remember what really pissed me off was Frank wanting to finally leave Claire - but also to take Brianna with him. And I am one of the few Hosers who really likes Frank. Go figure. (NT) -- 'becca beccabee, 16:25:10 03/18/08 Tue
  • e (NT) -- Caitlin, 17:34:30 03/18/08 Tue
  • E is the one that affected me the most, but I also found H and L pretty devastating. (NT) -- Mary H., 19:36:48 03/18/08 Tue
    • I agree with you that E affected me the most. I still remember the exact moment that I came across is and felt as if my heart stopped beating. LOL -I think I felt more cheated then Claire. (NT) -- TheresaSt., 18:02:31 04/01/08 Tue
  • M. I think Claire's abduction and rape was nearly as awful, but it didn't nearly kill her. What BJR did to Jamie had lifelong repercussions. Claire, being Claire, not only lived through her ordeal but seemed to be able to put it behind her for the most part and moved on. I wish I was more like her. (NT) -- Jane, 05:45:53 03/19/08 Wed
  • L was pretty upsetting, but I'd also have to say O for Jenny's treatment of Claire in Voyager (attempting to send her off before Jamie could talk to her). (NT) -- LizT, 07:01:42 03/19/08 Wed
    • L... then O for your same reasons!!! (NT) -- Piper-Mom, 08:24:10 03/19/08 Wed
  • Wow, I thought about this for a long time! I'm going to have to say O - when Leoghaire sent Claire to Gellie knowing that she would be caught up in the witch trial and probably killed as a result. Malva's a very close second though. (NT) -- alison, 07:26:22 03/19/08 Wed
    • Yeah, that Leghair thing was pretty treacherous too! (NT) -- Piper-Mom, 06:25:54 03/27/08 Thu
  • L.... for sure! I was tempted to pick one of the rapes, but one those occasions, I'm not sure they qualify as treachery, evil ppl involved, and it's just kinda par for the course, evil ppl will do evil things. I just never saw it coming with Malva, THAT was heinous! (NT) -- stillcleaning, 07:56:48 03/19/08 Wed
  • L... hands down (NT) -- JenK, 08:56:04 03/19/08 Wed
    • L..... Ditto for me. (NT) -- AngieLass, 09:04:29 03/19/08 Wed
  • L! And wow! After reading through the list and ... I wondered if others would see it that way too. And it appears as if a lot have! If there's not trust between the two involved, and the motive is entirely self-centered, then that's "treachery". Otherwise, I see it as mostly just bad people behaving badly. (NT) -- navine, 14:36:41 03/19/08 Wed
    • OK ... in my zeal to post I messed up my definitions! If there *is* trust and the motive is self-centered, then it is treachery. (NT) -- navine, 14:45:12 03/19/08 Wed
  • B. I feel like this single act of treachery led to so much more - the flight to France, Jamie's unwilling conscription into Bonnie Charlie's army, and all that came from that; Jamie and Claire's separation, Jamie's life in the cave, his eventual life as an outlaw, for all intents. (NT) -- jayne, 14:41:41 03/19/08 Wed
  • L. Of the ones listed, it is the most treacherous. But I can think of others like Claire being sent to Crainsmuir by Laoghair, or Dougal telling Jamie that BJR had raped his sister and fathered her child or when Dougal clocked and stabbed Jamie or when Dougal wouldn't go to rescue Jamie but offered to marry Claire ...that despicable so-and-so! (NT) -- Barb J., 15:10:52 03/19/08 Wed
    • LOL! Although I'd still vote for L, I'd have to consider Dougal's behavior treachery, too, and I'm laughing because there are so many here who love him! But he certainly fits my description of treacherous, both to Jamie and even to his own brother. Ah weel--at least Jamie knew that Dougal could be a deceptive, lying, self-serving SOB and had an eye out for the possibility. Still, sometimes he surpassed all expections! That's for the laugh! (NT) -- KathleenM, 19:04:28 03/19/08 Wed
      • ? -- ME, 20:51:13 03/19/08 Wed
        • For ME: Claire's abduction and rape takes place in A Breath of Snow and Ashes. (NT) -- KathleenM, 06:50:39 03/20/08 Thu
      • Jamie knew Dougal could be deceptive - even suspected he was the one who tried to kill him. But he STILL believed Dougal's lies about Jennie & BJR. Go figure. (NT) -- Ruthlass, 20:57:15 03/19/08 Wed
        • Well, I guess he was younger then and more trusting. Maybe he didn't want to believe Dougal capable of such treachery then; still, only a short chronological time later, Jamie was ready for Dougal and did what had to be done. DG writes so three dimensionally that I can't help but see Dougal's charm, even while knowing him to be so . . . untrustworthy is one of the nicer things I can say. Jamie's belief in his stories about Jenny does seem to defy reason but the Frasers are a hot-headed bunch. (NT) -- KathleenM, 06:57:34 03/20/08 Thu
          • Remember, though, that Jamie *saw* his sister go into the house with Randall, and had every reason to believe he had sex with her. If she'd become pregnant from that (as Dougal said), she might well have been so devastated by shame as to become isolated from her Scottish neighbors, and with father and brother both gone....it wouldn't have been surprising if she'd been forced to "take up" with an English soldier (not Randall) for protection. No, I don't think it was at all far-fetched for Jamie to believe Dougal about that, especially since he was suffering terrible guilt for his own part in what he thought was his sister's destruction. (NT) -- maddiej, 02:47:02 03/23/08 Sun
            • you make a good point, maddie. I understand why he believed it to begin with--you're right about the circumstantial evidence, Jamie's own experiences with BJR and his guilt for thinking his actions had something to do with it. I think that my surprise occurs after meeting Jenny. She isn't a soft, demure type at all--she's a fighter just like Jamie and I'm surprised he had so little faith in her. I think it's b/c he's young and though he knows her strength, doesn't yet realize just how that strength can manfest itself. (NT) -- KathleenM, 06:27:49 03/24/08 Mon
              • He also hadn't been home all that long when Randall's visit occurred. Remember, he'd spent several years away from Lallybroch, first fostering with Dougal, and then at university in Paris. And their father was still alive. Jenny might not have had to display quite so much strength before all this disaster happened. (NT) -- maddiej, 15:19:09 03/27/08 Thu
    • Puir Dougal, so misunderstood. (NT) -- Lady Lukkarinen (ducking and running), 13:42:28 03/24/08 Mon
  • L .... this was betrayal of love and trust... (NT) -- Lady Z, 09:26:18 03/20/08 Thu
  • L! Conniving little B***H!! (NT) -- kgp, 10:58:56 03/20/08 Thu
  • Definately L.. I remember reading this the first time, all I kept thinking was OMG, how are they ever gonna get out of this one? That little B!##@@*tch!!! (NT) -- JulieW, 16:38:18 03/20/08 Thu
  • L. Ugh, so much treachery here, but Malva takes the cake. She was the most deceitful, to the very end. (NT) -- LissC, 13:01:15 03/21/08 Fri
  • L. I guess that is the worst treachery, but I think McNabb turning Jamie in and Leghair telling Claire that Geillis needed her are very close seconds (NT) -- LisaW, 17:10:35 03/21/08 Fri
  • M....that whole scene was horrific and done with such evil intent. (NT) -- Jan R., 19:05:03 03/22/08 Sat
  • O. The Duke of Sandringham. Sorry, but IMO he's the worst. He screwed everyone! (NT) -- Melva T, 10:47:29 03/25/08 Tue
  • Malva? -- Christine, 11:31:47 03/25/08 Tue
  • Malva? -- Christine, 11:34:18 03/25/08 Tue
  • L. for me, such premeditated evil. (NT) -- LadyGrace, 10:26:53 03/26/08 Wed
  • L. Malva poinsoning Claire and her FAther (NT) -- swarl, 14:25:57 03/26/08 Wed
  • Tom Christie tells Claire that Malva used infected blood and mucus to poison them both. According to Roger's calculations all of this happened well before she got pregnant. Contrast this Malva with the one in Allan Christie's Confession in chapter 122. He tells Claire that he forced Malva to accuse Jamie of fathering her child, but he says that Malva loved Claire and could no longer deceive her. Allan kills Malva to prevent her from telling Claire the truth. Did I miss a line or paragraph that would reconcile this apparent contrast? And how does Malva know about the scar on Jamie's bum? (NT) -- Christine, 16:23:43 03/26/08 Wed
  • L - I chose this before I saw it was the popular choice *g*. I think this started the beginning of the end for the Frasers on the Ridge...with their people turning against them and, in my mind, forcing them away from the Ridge....which I think will become more apparent in Echo and so therefore, once again J (&C) have lost everything they have worked so hard for. (NT) -- AmandaW, 17:09:49 03/26/08 Wed
  • L. Have to go with Melva too. By doing what she did, it hurt several people, not only Claire & Jamie. (NT) -- Gina-C, 18:22:44 03/26/08 Wed
  • There are a lot of good ones here, but I have to go with O: Steven Bonnet robbing Claire & Jamie, then raping Bree, treating Roger like crap and more all after they saved his butt! Malva would be next. Jamie's rape and Claire's rape were both horrific, but not betrayals, I would call them severe physical and mental torture no one should have to endure, which is why I find them both so absolutely offensive (NT) -- Jeana B (can I call myself Lady Jeana ?), 21:47:09 03/26/08 Wed
  • One more thought? Should all of Jocasta's lies and manipulations from the day Jamie showed up at River Run have made list, including those that ultimately led to the discovery of the contents of her coffin? (NT) -- Jeana B (Lady Jeana B), 21:51:52 03/26/08 Wed
  • L. Betrayal by someone you trust is treachery and this was the most "treacherous". There were other incidents of dishonestly and bad behavior and evil but this was treacherous. (NT) -- cherylc, 04:33:44 03/27/08 Thu
  • L. She seemed so sincere about wanting to learn about medicine and helping people and she clearly seemed to care alot for Claire and Jamie. Infecting Claire and nearly killing her was awful (and Claire losing her hair too) but claiming Jamie was father of her child was terrible and the consequences of that were horrrendous! (NT) -- Mitzi, 10:06:54 03/27/08 Thu
  • L. (If voting's still allowed.) ALL of these are treachery personified--choosing the worst evil is a purely personal point of view, isn't it! Then, H and K and B, and also . . . (giggle) they're ALL TERRIBLE, every last one of them. (NT) -- Gayle (who thinks, 10:49:49 03/27/08 Thu
  • 100% Jamie selling Roger to the Indians. Everything else on the list was in character or understandable on some level, this was just so horribly wrong. (NT) -- Annabel, 11:27:18 03/27/08 Thu
    • H, oops (NT) -- Annabel, 11:31:57 03/27/08 Thu
    • At the risk of having a very unpopular opinion, I think that if Roger would have been honest with Jamie this never would have happened. Therefore this wasn't a betrayal because Jamie believed he was getting rid of the man who raped his daughter. Jmho. Going back into hiding now. (NT) -- Jiisa, 17:38:12 03/27/08 Thu
      • I agree. Jamie was misled (unintentionally) by Lizzie, of course he would respond the way he did. (NT) -- Chrissylass, 19:07:37 03/27/08 Thu
        • If Roger had been honest with him? He wasn't given the chance! I put the blame for this one squarely on Bree's shoulders. She should have been more forthcoming about what happened and who it happened with. (NT) -- Kim L, 06:45:38 03/30/08 Sun
          • And even if Brianna was not comfortable enough yet with Jamie to be forthcoming, Claire (with whom she was pretty forthcoming) certainly was. Although Roger may have been given over to the Indians, he would have been quite retrievable. I don't know if the blame can be placed with any one individual--just a sereies of hot-headed, stubborn or misguided decisions, IMHO. (NT) -- KathleenM, 19:54:51 03/30/08 Sun
  • Definitely L. I couldn't understand how Malva could have done all that she did after Claire had been so good to her!! I know she had family issues of her own but even so..... (NT) -- Frankie, 12:55:29 03/27/08 Thu
  • From this list, L, because it was betrayal to both Jamie AND Claire (and also her dad Tom). I think M is downright villainous and I find all the rape scenes really hard to deal with, but those villains (BJR, Bonnet and the men who abducted Claire) did not have cause to feel loyalty to the victims and therefore what they did was not strictly treacherous. But then to me the ultimate treacherous act in the books was when Prince Charlie abused Jamie's friendship and wrote his name on the declaration, thus forcing Jamie on the road to Culloden, and all the suffering afterwards. (NT) -- Chrissylass, 17:18:17 03/27/08 Thu
    • I agree with your last statement, Chrissylass. Prince Charlie betraying Jamie caused a lot of suffering. (NT) -- Jiisa, 17:40:07 03/27/08 Thu
  • Ooh. there is a lot of treachery in these books, isn't there? L. Although some of the others come very close. (NT) -- Ellen P., 15:44:00 03/28/08 Fri
  • (L) Although, all the moments are "great" moments of treachery. I think I chose L because Melva surprised me the most. I felt ABSOLUTELY crazy when I read about Jamie and Leoghaire, but understood why he didn't tell her right away. And as for the others (Bonet...) I wasn't really all that surprised by their actions... (NT) -- TheresaSt., 18:00:44 04/01/08 Tue
  • L. Have to agree with the others who have defined treachery. While there were worse moments in the books, this is the one that involves the worst betrayal. (NT) -- Brookita, 01:30:43 04/02/08 Wed
  • M. that seen with BJR haunted me for weeks. (NT) -- Karinmon, 05:11:35 04/02/08 Wed
  
  
  

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• WELCOME TO THE FEBRUARY POLL! -- The Pollsketteers, 19:07:56 02/06/08 Wed
  It's that time of year when our thoughts turn to love! So, this month is a fun poll all about love. It's time to play Outlandermatch.com!
  
  We think that young Ian is a pretty much universally loved around here. We all want him to find that special love like Jamie and Claire. So, let's help Ian out.
  
  We have a list of female characters plus their personality traits. Which one female type do think it would best be mathced with. Remember, we are not matching him with the character (they are pretty much all taken!). What traits or charateristics do you think are the best match for Ian? Let's assume that they love each other-but what else would he want?
  
  A. Claire: intelligent, independent, loyal, fearless
  B. Bree: intelligent, creative, headstrong, Fraser stubborn
  C. Marsali: domestic, stubborn, more tradtional female role
  D. Jenny: headstrong, Fraser stubborn, more traditional female role
  E. Lizzie: sweet, demure :-), loyal, domestic
  F: Mary (from DIA): sweet, naive, loyal, devoted
  F. A Native American woman
  G. Ofcourse, anyone else you can think of!
  
  Have fun and let's find Ian a soul mate! The Poll will close on Valentines Day!
  

  [ Edit | View ]
  
  Replies:

  • A. I'll get the poll rolling! I have to go with Claire's traits because I find Ian to be so much like his Uncle Jamie. He knows about Claire, Roger & Bree and accepts it without a second thought-didn't seem to phase him at all! I think a strong, independent woman would complement him well. I am hoping that Ian becomes Claire's apprentice and will take over eventually. He is sharp and can also complement what she can teach him with his Native American knowledge. Just my hope... (NT) -- Rollaine, 19:16:45 02/06/08 Wed
  • A. No question about it! (NT) -- LindaT, 19:53:54 02/06/08 Wed
  • A. A younger version of Claire. I think a more traditional female type would bore him silly. He's very much like his Uncle Jamie, too. (NT) -- LizT, 20:02:52 02/06/08 Wed
  • BREE fer sure -- gstanley, 05:29:37 02/07/08 Thu
  • somehow my message (above) is inside, sorry (NT) -- gstanley, 05:31:50 02/07/08 Thu
  • A... I was going to say Lizzie, but I'm afraid she'd be to shocked at things he's done or witnessed. I think a younger Claire would suit Ian better. (NT) -- JenK, 06:14:28 02/07/08 Thu
  • A. I was thinking D for Jenny, but then I thought, "God NO" They'd be killing each other! Ian needs someone fearless and intelligent who would have confidence in him to make his own decisions. He needs a "Claire" of his very own. (NT) -- Jane, 06:27:47 02/07/08 Thu
  • What an easy question. Definitely A -- Claire!!!!!!!! (NT) -- ladyphantom, 07:12:59 02/07/08 Thu
  • A - Claire (NT) -- oorjanie, 11:24:53 02/07/08 Thu
  • B Someone like Bree, more willing than Claire to bend the world to her vision of what should be and very well educated, could fill in the knowledge gaps for Ian and help him become absolutely perfect to do great things in his world. (NT) -- Carol P, 11:37:39 02/07/08 Thu
  • C. As I was reading the question Marsali popped into my mind first. My speculation though is that it will be Marsali's sister or a native american woman. (NT) -- Ellen P., 11:56:27 02/07/08 Thu
  • I vote C for a Marsali type. I think because she is Scottish, feisty, and domestic but not a pushover or doormat at all. Marsali has a core of iron in her. Because of her domesticity she seems traditional, but was it traditional for her to defy everyone and everything to have Fergus? That girl's a fighter, and that's what I think Ian needs--a woman who wants him and will do anything to have and keep him! (NT) -- Magdalene, 12:07:31 02/07/08 Thu
  • C. Marsali, I always remember the conversation she had with him after Henri Christian is born, she was so tender with him. She is a traditional woman, but she is a fighter and a doer. She does not take no for an answer and I think Ian would love a woman like her. (NT) -- LisaW, 12:24:54 02/07/08 Thu
  • C - I'm with Magdalene, Lisa and Ellen on this one! He needs someone strong-willed, but stable, and not as given to introspection as Bree (to balance his own inner doubts/hurts). I don't think she needs to be more "traditional" since Ian has lived in a culture where women wielded authority and in a family full of powerful strong females, but I actually think a feisty Scottish lass would also help re-connect him to the Highlander in himself, and help him flourish as the "man of two worlds" American hero that he is! (NT) -- pamelalass, 12:30:13 02/07/08 Thu
    • Great poll question, btw - Good job, Pollsketteers! (NT) -- pamelalass, 12:42:39 02/07/08 Thu
      • Thanks! We wanted to make this a fun poll after all the serious (but most excellent) discussions about sisterhood! Glad you are all having fun! (NT) -- Pollsketeers, 13:21:54 02/08/08 Fri
    • Wow! I was going to go with A, since I think Ian needs someone steady and strong-willed to keep him "grounded." But after reading these insights, I've chnaged my mind - C it is, for all those reasons. Thanks for the insight, lasses!! (NT) -- Terri C, 18:09:16 02/07/08 Thu
  • C. Marsali. I think she is a strong woman in her own way, after all she left home & defied her mother to marry Fergus. Someone like her would complement Ian well, I think. (NT) -- Cindy G, 13:10:58 02/07/08 Thu
  • A - definitely, for all the reasons stated above (NT) -- CindyS, 14:15:10 02/07/08 Thu
  • C. He would be great at taking care of someone -something he has been denied through his marriage to Emily. (NT) -- LissC, 17:16:04 02/07/08 Thu
  • F. I'm going to go out on a limb and go with Mary. I think Ian, after his experiences, needs complete devotion as well as someone who needs him to care for her. And she did turn out to be strong in her own way. (NT) -- Mary H., 18:52:44 02/07/08 Thu
  • G. Marsali's sister Joan, asuming she's a lot like her sister. They go to Scotland for the printing press, Ian & Joan fall in love, the dowery J promised her is some of the land on Fraser's Ridge. (NT) -- ruthlass, 22:04:25 02/07/08 Thu
  • (B) He and Bree seem to have a very good understanding of one another so, a female with her traits would be a very good match. (NT) -- LadyDuBois, 05:17:18 02/08/08 Fri
  • Hmm, well, Ian obviously likes women who are small and dark and good with their hands- I vote for ME!!!! Seriously though, I love Marsali but I don't think she has the imagination for Ian- he's a wandering, loner type soul and look how easy he accepted the TT- so sigh, if it can't be me, then I think it must be a Claire type. They have such great comraderie! I always love their exchanges. He needs a companion of the soul. A (NT) -- susiej, 07:35:35 02/08/08 Fri
  • G, Annekje the Swedish goat keeper on board The Porpoise is a great woman-figure for Ian. She was an independent and wise woman and without a doubt helped both Claire and Jamie escape the ship. She could have been hanged for such a treason. I'd really like to meet her again. (NT) -- Helka, 08:24:20 02/08/08 Fri
  • I have to go with the crowd and say A)... Like his Uncle Jamie, Ian really needs someone who is his equal in all ways. BTW, I don't see any reason why a Native American woman couldn't have all those traits. (NT) -- Lynn H., 10:51:09 02/08/08 Fri
  • E. Lizzie, is definetly the domestic mousey type, but I think he would enjoy protecting her and having her dote on him, Bree is a close second tho (NT) -- stillcleaning, 14:20:16 02/09/08 Sat
  • C. Marsali - seems like a good fit to me. :D (NT) -- Judie, 06:36:23 02/11/08 Mon
  • C - someone to be a strong partner with but who has the sweetness, loyalty and inner strength that Marsali has. (NT) -- kgp, 10:20:18 02/11/08 Mon
  • A. He is such a headstrong, loyal person. Marsali, maybe too, but somebody like claire is best. (NT) -- annieo, 20:07:14 02/11/08 Mon
  • A. - just like his uncle, I think Ian needs his own Claire! (NT) -- lori v, 16:10:43 02/12/08 Tue
  • D for sure. Someone like Jenny who has all the traditional qualities of the time, but who also can accept what she doesn't understand with a fairly open mind. She also stands up for what she believes in, and is ferociously protective of the ones she loves. Someone like Claire or Bree wouldn't fit in with what Ian believes is a woman's role in a marriage, even though he loves both of them dearly. (NT) -- KimL, 19:39:08 02/12/08 Tue
  • F I also think that Ian would do well with a woman he could take care of. I also think her devotion and loyalty would be a great match. Ian doesn't really remind me of the type that would do well with a "Claire-type". Just my humble opinion though (NT) -- TheresaSt., 20:24:32 02/12/08 Tue
  • C) First I would have said Bree, but on second thought I go with Marsali not nessecarly cos of the listed things, but I think since she does a lot of the hunting for her family she could acompany him from time to time ans thus share a bit of the more indian ways Ian has, but she is also domestic, and he would have someone to come home to. I think with Bree he would have to much to worry if she would be home and not of chasing an idea. But whoever it will be, she needs to be intelligent, cos I think Ian has a lot yet to sa, he does't need someone to listen and say everything is going to be well, he needs someone who understands and is able to reason with him because I think that is more what he needs, not comfort but the reassurence of reasons that what he did/does is the rigt thing. Ian is strong but not as sure of himself as jamie jet. (NT) -- Lady Morilka, 00:30:31 02/13/08 Wed
  • C. -- At first I thought Bree or Claire, but then I remembered Ian's wife and thought Marsali a better fit. (NT) -- AngieLass, 06:18:52 02/13/08 Wed
  • F- I think with all of the messy horrors Ian has seen, he'd need a little bit of softness to loose himself in. (NT) -- Larnsturt, 10:30:32 02/13/08 Wed
  • C) I'm going with Marsali. They have their culture in common and I think Ian would love to have someone to talk to about 'home'. (NT) -- Lady Lukkarinen, 13:34:07 02/13/08 Wed
  • B. Looks like votes for Bree are in the minority here, but she and Ian get along very well and I can see him with someone like her. (NT) -- Gina C, 14:44:55 02/13/08 Wed
  • F But a time traveling Native so he can have the best of both. I think he really shined with independent manhood when he had his Native wife. He became very appealing after I saw him in that new light. Instead of the lanky boy J had to leave behind. (NT) -- Juju, 09:29:38 02/14/08 Thu
  • B. Bree - I felt their personalities really hit it off and they shared a great bond someone like her would be perfect. (NT) -- LadyGrace, 10:35:59 02/14/08 Thu
  • B. Bree. He seemed to have a sort of crush on her anyway. They seemed to have a fairly close connection. I think he would be well suited to someone like her even though he may not look for that. Men don't always know what is best for them, do they!? (NT) -- SandyH, 16:33:32 02/14/08 Thu
  • Results for the February Poll: (NT) -- The Pollsketeers, 13:05:51 02/29/08 Fri
  • Results for the February Poll: -- The Pollsketeers, 13:08:13 02/29/08 Fri
  
  
  

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