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Date Posted: 09:17:16 01/21/08 Mon
Author: LissC
Subject: The lack of sister-sister relationships bothered me a bit, as DG herself has a sister, and seems to be pretty close with her, thus giving her ample life experience to draw from. The only sisters I can remember in the Books are Joan and Marsali - separated by circumstance, and Ute McGillvary's daughters, sort of non-entities, as far as the story goes. I myself have a dear sister and would like to have seen Diana bring some of those dynamics into the story. The other thing about Claire is that she really has only sustained two relationships well over the span of the stories - with Jamie and Bree. As practical as she is, it just seems like she refuses to make an effort otherwise.
In reply to: JessieR and CatherineM 's message, " Mini Reread Topic for January 2008: The Bonds (or lack thereof) of Sisterhood " on 22:40:12 01/15/08 Tue


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[> [> I should clarify - she is practical in that she only expends effort to those relationships that are dearest to her heart. Is it her natural inclination and her doctor's training allowing her to stand back emotionally from most other people?? -- LissC, 09:18:36 01/21/08 Mon


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[> [> [> Maybe because Claire lost her mom so young, she didn't have a female role model in her life to show how to nurture her female frienships. She could stand back emotionally, as you say Liss, from people to care for them, but she never opened emotionally to other women to be friends with them. -- LisaW, 09:29:15 01/21/08 Mon


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[> [> [> [> That's an interesting observation. My parents divorced when I was 6 (due to my fahter's infidelity), and yet my closest friends are men. Do we learn friendships from parents or other people? Or is it something we find on our own? -- Rollaine, 09:33:57 01/21/08 Mon


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[> [> Liss -- and everyone else (waves at all the people who've reposnded so far:THANK YOU!!!) Do you have any thoughts on the tthe "sisterhoods" of the convent? or of the various brothels? -- CatherineM., 09:25:37 01/21/08 Mon


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[> [> [> Did you feel a sisterhood at the convent? Perhaps it was because Claire was close to "the BOSS" and the other sisters were in awe of her, but I never felt any of the sisters (besides Mother H) treated Claire with anything other than subservience. I did like the whores at the brothel and how they immediately took Claire under their wing. I also liked how Claire accepted them, tongue planted firmly in her cheek, but she seemed to really like them. As Jamie commented in ABOSAA, she might have "made a really good whore." -- Jane, 10:32:56 01/21/08 Mon


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[> [> [> [> Jane, you're on to something with 'the boss' comment. Of all the women I saw Claire with in these rereads, she seemed the most relaxed with Mother H, a highly educated woman who describes herself as wanting to life a "useful life". Is she just not given the chance to meet other women like that in future books? Yes, she likes the whores,she likes & respects the hardworking women of Lallybroch & she seems to admire Marsali greatly as time goes on. Is she too much of a 'boss' herself to seek close friendship - and I don't mean that as an insult to you Claire!! -- HollyC, 11:08:33 01/21/08 Mon


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[> [> [> [> [> Well, Claire seemed to really like Jenny Campbell and admired HER force of personality. Perhaps the women around Claire just didn't impress her because of the way that they were raised. Women were not encouraged to be independent movers and shakers. Claire doesn't seem to have a lot of respect for women who focus on things she feels are shallow (i.e.. Louise with her gowns, coo-coo clock, and monkey). I felt that Louise did do a lot to try to help Claire and didn't get a lot of gratitude or gain Claire's respect in return for her efforts. -- Jane, 10:08:27 01/22/08 Tue


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[> [> [> Jane & HollyC—I agree with you. I don’t get a sense of sisterhood at the convent. The nuns themselves get short shrift because the focus is on M. Hildegarde, who is, I think, one of the few women in all the novels who is the intellectual equal of Claire. The bond between Claire and M. Hildegarde transcends gender because their professional commitment supercedes it, so they shine while the sisterhood itself is but a shadow in the background. There is a greater sense of sisterhood at the brothel, where we see how mutual loyalty among those women works to protect them as they ply their dangerous trade. But the one place where I find sisterhood most difficult to find is in the domestic setting, either at Lallybroch or Fraser’s Ridge. Female bonds get sundered in those places, which given the fact that hearth and home have traditionally been the locus of female power, seems all the more ironic. -- JessieR, 13:01:02 01/21/08 Mon


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[> [> [> [> Good discussion! I didn't feel a sense of sisterhood at the convent, because it wasn't focused on as much as Claire and Mother H. I do think that Claire's lack of sister-like relationships is due in part to her level of intellect. She rarely meets anyone - male or female - who challenges her intellectually. Jamie, yes, Bree, yes, as her daughter, Frank, yes, but is constrained by their emotional desert of a marriage, Joe Abernathy, yes... But specifically women? Geillie, while an intellectual equal more or less, cannot be trusted. Jenny, after the L'heery incident in Voyager, and the estrangement from Jamie, also can't be trusted and is removed by distance. Who else matches her for intellectual ability. I again think that she is simply too practical to invest heavily in a relationship that is not on an equal footing. And those women she IS closest too - Marsali, Bree, Mrs. Bug, Lizzie - she is either older and mothering to them, or mothered by Mrs Bug, to Claire's dismay. -- LissC, 18:42:38 01/21/08 Mon


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[> [> [> Thought provoking comments from you all. Is it possible that the class structure of the 18th C explains why we don't see sisterhoods? There's a sisterhood among the whores at Madame Jeanne's, but they are all equals. They were willing to "adopt" Claire because they thought she was one of them. The married women at Leoch seem to have a similiar set up and also included Claire, though a little hesitantly because of her foreigness. Maybe the reason Jenny doesn't have the same relationship with the women of Lallybroch is because she's the Laird's daughter/sister? -- Carol P, 19:45:05 01/22/08 Tue


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