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Date Posted: 17:24:38 01/24/08 Thu
Author: pamelalass
Subject: Yes, Jessie, I agree there are other possible scenarios that would have remained consistent with what we know of Claire, and I think her 20thc sensibility was causing her to sense something more awry than Malva receiving thrashings from her father. So my question about why we don't see her get more involved is less about the beating she observed and more about her suspicions that the beating, which I think took place outdoors where it could be witnessed, was a symptom of something much worse that could have been going on inside the Christie house. She only had a vague sense about this, but if it was just about corporal punishment I actually don't think she'd have sent Jamie, because she knows he holds the traditional 18th c view on this form of discipline. The way Claire's concerns are expressed, to me it seemed she suspected something was really wrong, so I was surprised that her intervention was so indirect, given her usual "damn the torpedos" approach. >>
In reply to: JessieR 's message, "Yea—I agree, Pamela. This was a missed opportunity on Claire’s part, as well as a missed opportunity for DG to illustrate a moment of female bonding. >>>inside>>>" on 16:04:42 01/23/08 Wed

Given Jamie's perspective on physical discipline, sending him to talk to Malva falls rather far short of "solidarity," now that I think of it! For the rest of the Malva storyline to fall into place, however, there had to be a time when Jamie visits her alone.

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Replies:

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Light bulb went on, thanks for explaining this so well, Pamela. I think you're right that the problem wasn't the switching. I don't have my book handy and can't remember how long after this scene the stuff hit the fan. Is this another of those situations where things happen so quickly there's no time to stave off disaster? I'm still trying to think of anything Claire could have done besides talk to Malva, which I'm pretty convinced would have been a big waste of time. -- Carol P, 18:20:01 01/24/08 Thu


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Ahhh.."damn the torpedos" is the perfect way to describe Claire's approach to things! Agree with you here-I tried to kind of say this, but apparently not as well! -- Rollaine, 18:22:02 01/24/08 Thu


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Yea—Claire’s concern about Malva is not really about corporal punishment; she sees Malva as an adult rather than a child and worries that a grown man beating the naked bum of his grown daughter could be sexualizing the act: “”Perhaps he [meaning Tom] does…other things to her,’” Claire tells Jamie. I also agree with you that the lateral pass to Jamie is driven by the exigencies of the plot. In the “Woodears” chapter, not only does Malva get to be alone with Jamie, she also gets subtly demonized by the recurring trope of the snake. Malva will help bring ruin to the Eden that Jamie and Claire made on Fraser’s Ridge, and DG has to begin convincing the reader that Miss Christie is wicked enough to do so. -- JessieR, 18:36:47 01/24/08 Thu


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Ah, Jessie, you are such a marvelous teacher. I noticed the snake but didn't think beyond the fact. The scene is much richer if I think about Eden too. -- Carol P, 20:34:55 01/24/08 Thu


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> I, too, never thought about the symbolism of the snake - thanks for the clarity! Great discussion, btw, wish I had had more time to participate.. -- LissC, 17:52:14 01/25/08 Fri


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> It's true that Claire often *is* "damn the torpedos," yes. [s] However, at this point in the story, she's had several run-ins with Tom Christie, and knows just how stubborn he is, as well as just what his attitude toward women is. She'd know she couldn't get anywhere trying to prevent him doing what he thought was right (and his right). But he does owe Jamie his livelihood, as well as the general respect due to the local authority figure; Jamie *might* get somewhere. My impression is that Jamie wanted to know as much as he could before approaching Tom directly. And in fact, I don't think Claire does "send" him to talk to Malva; he runs across her by accident, but takes the opportunity to probe cautiously into her situation. -- maddiej, 02:13:09 01/25/08 Fri


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> It's funny, I can't help agreeing with everything you've said, Maddie! Yet still I have this bee in my bonnet about Claire's modern sensibility and her suspicion that the punishment had a sexual component, or was evidence of something more sinister, and I find her strangely passive as the narrative plays out. I don't fault any author for making close calls when it comes to how to turn her plot, and my (completely personal) opinion is that Claire recedes here because there needs to be the Jamie/Malva interaction - - his time with the serpent in the garden. You're right, she doesn't send him, but I thought they did come to some sort of agreement that he would be the one to find out more. Which makes Claire's "intervention" feel even more casual, and her lack of urgency doesn't fit, for me, with the concern and suspicion she articulates. She doesn't seem to "have Malva's back" -- and for contrast, I love Cathy's idea about the Beardsley ghost wives! -- pamelalass, 06:30:19 01/25/08 Fri


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