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Date Posted: 17:19:15 07/04/09 Sat
Author: Page
Subject: In here >>>>>
In reply to: Page 's message, "In keeping with my stated goals" on 16:58:44 07/04/09 Sat

A tiny bit of backstory. This part is further along in the book, and one of the things I've had to change since Jay made me realize the beginning wasn't true to form. So to speak. In a nutshell, I saw that Katie had more feelings for Adam than I'd let her have. After all, there was no reason for her to continue staying with him, even if she couldn't find her own flat in Ladbroke Grove. If she didn't care for him, she'd have moved elsewhere, especially knowing that he was falling in love with her. In this excerpt, Jay has already made an appearance, and that raging, tearing attraction between him and Katie has been ignited. The morning after they met, he's come to Ladbroke Grove, ostensibly looking for Adam, and has found Katie doing laundry in the little laundrette near Adam's flat. In the course of the afternoon, they've gone back to Jay's house, he's shown her around, and they're now sitting in the kitchen, having eaten lunch.

What I'm wondering if what Katie is feeling and thinking feels "real," or if it's coming across as contrived. Any opinions, comments and questions are most gratefully welcomed! (And on a purely personal note, Thomaston Castle, mentioned here, once belonged to my ancestors, the McIlvaine family, so it's near and dear to my heart! There are photos on my genealogy website, if you're interested. *G*)

Excerpt from Carey On (working title)
©2009 by Juli Morgan
Posted for purposes of critique only, and does not constitute publication

“I’d love to have a castle, really.” Jay pushed the discarded bread crusts, all that was left of his sandwich, around his plate. Katie made a sound of amusement, and he looked up at her, his eyes twinkling. “No, not like that. I know you’ve got this Americanized idea of castles. Camelot and Cinderella and the like, with a moat and drawbridge. But that’s not what I’m talking about.”

“What other kind of castle is there?” Katie leaned forward and rested her chin in her palm.

“I suppose it's more like a large, grand house.” His eyes lost their focus on her as his thoughts turned inward. “Castle Leod in Scotland is a good example. It’s a lovely place, that. Or Thomaston Castle in Ayr – that’s in Scotland, too.” He shook his head. “But it’s a total ruin now. It’d take a ton of money to put it right again.”

“What does it look like?”

Jay’s eyes returned to the present and he smiled at her. “I’ve not been close to it; it’s on private property. But you can see it from the road.” A small shrug dismissed Thomaston. “For now, though, I do love this place. Loved it from the moment I saw the windows. Leaded glass, you know. And then I saw the wood panels in the drawing room. They’re exquisite. The woodwork in the upstairs hallway is –“ Another smile touched his face, this one rueful. “I’m boring you to tears, aren’t I?”

Katie lifted her head from her hand in surprise. “No way. I’m really interested in this.”

He regarded her a moment in silence. “You aren’t bored.” It was more a statement than a question.

Katie smiled and shook her head. She could listen to him talk all day, captivated as she was by the intensity on his face, and the passion in his voice. Things she never thought she'd find interesting, like old glass or carved wood panels, came to life as Jay described them, creating in her a thirst to know more about the things he loved.

Jay gave her a long, searching look as he gathered up their plates. He seemed to be reassured by what he saw, giving her another smile before he turned away to put the dishes in the sink.

Too unnerved by the sudden silence between them to sit still, Katie stood and carried their empty glasses to where he stood. He didn’t appear to notice; his hands were braced on the edge of the sink, and his head was lowered. Observing the stiffness in his shoulders, Katie halted in indecision, wondering if she’d done something wrong. The silence stretched and grew, and the glasses seemed to grow heavy in her hands. Taking a deep breath, Katie reached around him, and laid them in the sink next to the plates. Startling her, Jay straightened and turned to face her. Reaching out, he took her hands, an inscrutable look on his face. His hands were warm against hers, and his thumbs slid back and forth over her knuckles in a soft caress.

“Would you...” He paused to clear his throat. “Would you like to see Thomaston Castle?”

The question caught her off-guard. “Thomast--?” She recovered herself and nodded. “Yes, I would.”

Jay’s features relaxed, and he nodded. “I’ll take you there.”

A shy smile covered Katie’s face. “Then it’s a date.”

His fingers tightened over hers as he leaned toward her, unhurried and with deliberation. Katie saw his lashes sweep down to cover his eyes just before his mouth touched hers. His lips were warm and soft, and she moved her head forward to better fit them against her own. It was a sweet kiss, one of the sweetest Katie had ever known, without any of the demands and expectations most kisses had. She had time to think about the tentative, questioning feel of it, and to savor the feel of his lips and the mingling of their breath.

Jay drew back a bit and regarded her, and she felt a bit uneasy at the look of consternation on his face. Lowering his eyes, he licked his lips. “Adam…” he began, glancing up at her.

Unwelcome guilt flooded her at the sound of Adam’s name, and she dropped her eyes to her hands, still linked with Jay’s. True, she and Adam had never discussed their relationship, but Katie knew Adam considered them a couple – an exclusive couple. If she was being honest with herself, she had to admit she’d thought of them the same way. Now, standing here with Jay, feeling his hands warm in hers, and his kiss still tingling on her lips, she felt only confusion at the thought of Adam. She still cared about him, but she knew with no doubts that whatever they might have had between them had ended the moment she met Jay. The honest thing to do – the right thing to do – would be to pull away from Jay right now, and end things with Adam before she gave in to the yearning desire she had for the man standing in front of her. She took a deep breath, and looked up at Jay again, her lips already forming the words to explain. The sight of his face, however, caused all reason to fly from her mind, and all she could think of was how right it felt to be with him. Not just right; it was necessary. He was necessary to her, like nothing or no one had ever been before. “Please kiss me again.”

Conflict was evident in Jay’s eyes, the look in them shifting from joy and desire at her words, to guilt at the obvious thought of his best friend. At long last, Jay took a deep breath, his expression making it clear he’d come to a decision. Releasing her fingers, he slid his hands up her arms. His warm palms framed her face as he lowered his lips to hers again.

Last edited by author: Sat July 04, 2009 17:27:46   Edited 1 time.

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[> [> I like it, but... -- Debi, 22:52:49 07/04/09 Sat

I'm trying to see it as contrived and it doesn't seem that way to me. People were a bit different then, compared to today. My question is, how long have she and Adam been togther? Even with the casual attitudes people had about relationships, her falling for Jay/them falling for each other the day after they meet feels a little sudden to me, but I don't know if that's my trying to apply my moral senses of today to people living in the Peace and Love era. Would Jay find her more intriguing if she strung him along, not on purpose, but because she was conflicted? Or does the guilt come along afterward?

Does any of this make a bit of sense?

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[> [> [> Answers inside >>>>> -- Page, 19:03:34 07/06/09 Mon

>I'm trying to see it as contrived and it doesn't seem
>that way to me. People were a bit different then,
>compared to today. My question is, how long have she
>and Adam been togther?

Katie & Adam have been together about five months. She accepted his offer to "crash" with him, and then just never left as they grew closer. They have fun together, enjoy lots of the same things, and the physical attraction, of course, is there. But they're entering that stage now where the honeymoon is over -- starting to become aware of things they don't have in common, and both of them beginning to realize that, in very many ways, they aren't really compatible.

>Even with the casual attitudes
>people had about relationships, her falling for
>Jay/them falling for each other the day after they
>meet feels a little sudden to me, but I don't know if
>that's my trying to apply my moral senses of today to
>people living in the Peace and Love era.

Funnily enough, I used DH and myself as the inspiration for that part. *G* I'm not sure if it would be classified as "love at first sight" when we met, but it was definitely "want at first sight." Unlike Katie, though, I wasn't involved with anyone else, so DH and I started seeing each other right away, and we were married three months later. That was in 1985. As far as Jay and Katie go, neither of them is thinking about love; they just know they want each other, and Katie knows she wants him more than anything she's ever wanted. Does that make sense? *G*

>Would Jay
>find her more intriguing if she strung him along, not
>on purpose, but because she was conflicted? Or does
>the guilt come along afterward?

You've hit the nail on the head. She does string him along, and it's just as you said -- not on purpose, but because she's conflicted. I can't remember if you were posting to the Lit Forum when I posted a scene involving Katie and Jay that took place in the back hall of his house, a scene that takes place some time after this one. In that scene, Jay has had his fill of it, too. A brief excerpt:

With a growl of frustration, Jay wrenched her wrists from around his neck and pinned them above her against the wall, holding her captive. He shook his hair back and stared at her with an intensity that stopped her breath. “Don’t make me wait too long, Katie. I can’t take this. I want you more than I’ve ever wanted any woman in my life.” There was nothing gentle about his voice now; it was ragged and hoarse and full of lust. “I want you and I’ve got to have you, do you hear me?”

So, yes, although they do a lot of kissing in the scene posted, that's about as far as it gets. For now. *G*

As far as guilt goes, Katie does feel guilty about wanting Jay so badly when she lives with Adam. And she has a lot of guilt about breaking up with Adam (later) for Jay, but a lot of that is because Adam goes out of his way to make her feel guilty. He knew as well as she did that it was time to break up, but it galls him to lose her to Jay. He's always felt inferior to Jay, and that was the last straw. Jay, however, doesn't feel guilty after the brief hesitation he has in this scene. In his mind, it was Adam's fault if he couldn't hold onto her. I wrestled with that for a while, but that's just the way Jay thinks.

You mentioned the way people thought and acted back in that time, and it reminded me of something I read. It was in "Hammer of the Gods" by Stephen Davis, a supposedly true biography of a very famous band. A guitar player for a major British rock band and his very much live-in girlfriend invited a guitar player from another major British rock band and his wife to their home in the countryside for the weekend. Before the weekend was over, Guitarist #1 had run off to London with the wife of Guitarist #2. The two guys were scheduled to record a session together, and Guitarist #1 was rather worried about how the other guy would respond to all this. But Guitarist #2 rang up Guitarist #1 to discuss the recording session, and, in the course of the conversation, blithely asked, "How's our bird?" The story was told to the author by Guitarist #2. I don't think Katie, Jay and Adam are that "free" with themselves, but it does illustrate the lifestyles those types of folks lived in that era.

I'm really glad the scene didn't come off as contrived, or as something to just move the plot along. Thanks, Debi!

Hugs,
Page

Last edited by author: Mon July 06, 2009 19:20:43   Edited 2 times.

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[> [> [> [> That helps a lot! -- Debi, 19:55:40 07/06/09 Mon

With more background, it helps me understand. It all makes more sense now. I love that you and your DH were an inspiration for their whirlwind attraction. I would be a bit disappointed if they were really casual about changing partners (Do I hear CSN music now?). I don't think I'd be able to care about them as much as I do if they were really cavalier about their relationships.

I am waiting anxiously for the next installment.

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[> [> A little late but, I made it >>> -- Esther, 14:03:58 07/17/09 Fri

A tiny bit of backstory. This part is further along in the book, and one of the things I've had to change since Jay made me realize the beginning wasn't true to form. So to speak. In a nutshell, I saw that Katie had more feelings for Adam than I'd let her have. After all, there was no reason for her to continue staying with him, even if she couldn't find her own flat in Ladbroke Grove. If she didn't care for him, she'd have moved elsewhere, especially knowing that he was falling in love with her. In this excerpt, Jay has already made an appearance, and that raging, tearing attraction between him and Katie has been ignited. The morning after they met, he's come to Ladbroke Grove, ostensibly looking for Adam, and has found Katie doing laundry in the little laundrette near Adam's flat. In the course of the afternoon, they've gone back to Jay's house, he's shown her around, and they're now sitting in the kitchen, having eaten lunch.

Hey didn’t they go to some market where Maureen was and he bought her some candles???

What I'm wondering if what Katie is feeling and thinking feels "real," or if it's coming across as contrived. Any opinions, comments and questions are most gratefully welcomed! (And on a purely personal note, Thomaston Castle, mentioned here, once belonged to my ancestors, the McIlvaine family, so it's near and dear to my heart! There are photos on my genealogy website, if you're interested. *G*)

That’s cool!

Okay opinions, comments and questions leave me a lot of room to manoeuvre in. So, please forgive my transgressions. I might be totally off base and my memory failing, in which case, remember to ignore me, but I recollect her trying to break things off with Adam but for whatever reason, didn’t. I remember a distinct hallway scene, where Jay gave her an ultimatum to end it because he wasn’t going to wait for her much longer. Or something to that effect. So if she feels this fatal attraction to Jay, what’s stopping her from doing what she wants? From packing her bags and leaving Adam’s flat and heading straight to Jay’s bed? And again relying on my poor memory, but I have the impression Adam wasn’t much of a pleasure man in the sack, unless it was his pleasure. So if you want me to believe Katie cared for Adam enough to feel guilt, you have to do more than just have her stay with him for however long she has. And it’s possible you have done that, and I just haven’t read it yet. *G*

Okay lets say I perceive that she has feelings for Adam, and can understand that is part of why she stayed with him but…she knew here (the right thing to do) that Adam wasn’t for her. What else I don’t get is how long her and Adam have been together where they both think of themselves as an exclusive couple. And if I recall something else correctly, Adam wasn’t too upset when they broke up, he was more upset over the fact that he ‘lost’ her to Jay. Guilt is a powerful motivator, not doubt about it, but I don’t get the point of the guilt here. I guess what I’m trying to say is this. Katie has so far in my opinion come across as strong, decisive, and the kind of woman that would go after what she wants. Her coming from the Haught proves that. It’s an era where free love rules and attitudes about sex are quite liberal, so the guilt does seem a bit false to me. What is the guilt in response to? Her acting on her attraction to his best friend or her not feeling the same thing toward Adam that he does for her? And yes, I get the kiss between Jay and Katie wasn’t like something she ever experienced before. But still, I imagine that any instant attraction that feels this right isn’t stoppable. Both Jay and Katie made a conscious decision to have that second kiss and for Katie all it took was a look at Jay for the guilt to be swept away. If she has feelings that are strong enough for Adam to make her stay with him despite what she feels for Jay, the guilt seems a mockery when she asks Jay to kiss her again. Maybe if the guilt came afterward, but not during the kiss, because she did recognize it as something special, because it was the turning point in her feelings toward Adam, because she wasn’t ready to forget how Jay made her feel and because she didn’t want to hurt Adam. If that makes sense. And if this tearing attraction between them is to be interpreted as powerful, doesn’t her indecision to leave Adam make it less so? Of course, this is assuming that I recall things correctly, and that that part of the story is the same. So a round about way to say I know nothing and I’m going to shut up now. *G*

Hugs

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[> [> [> Re: Not that late -- I'm still working my way up the board! >>>> -- Page, 23:00:19 07/17/09 Fri

>
>Hey didn’t they go to some market where Maureen was
>and he bought her some candles???

Holy crap, your memory is astounding! Yep, he bought candles, but he bought them for himself after Maureen's not-too-subtle hint that they were Katie's favorite. I can't believe you remembered that! *G*
>

>That’s cool!
>
>Okay opinions, comments and questions leave me a lot
>of room to manoeuvre in. So, please forgive my
>transgressions. I might be totally off base and my
>memory failing,

Not bloody likely. See above. *G*

in which case, remember to ignore me,
>but I recollect her trying to break things off with
>Adam but for whatever reason, didn’t.

She was all prepared to break up with Adam, but decided to wait until the first rehearsal of the new band, since Adam was nervous as a cat about it. And before she could, he brings out the L-word, and asks her to be his girlfriend again. (She's moved out of his flat by the time all of that took place.)

I remember a
>distinct hallway scene, where Jay gave her an
>ultimatum to end it because he wasn’t going to wait
>for her much longer. Or something to that effect. So
>if she feels this fatal attraction to Jay, what’s
>stopping her from doing what she wants? From packing
>her bags and leaving Adam’s flat and heading straight
>to Jay’s bed? And again relying on my poor memory,
>but I have the impression Adam wasn’t much of a
>pleasure man in the sack, unless it was his pleasure.
>So if you want me to believe Katie cared for Adam
>enough to feel guilt, you have to do more than just
>have her stay with him for however long she has. And
>it’s possible you have done that, and I just haven’t
>read it yet. *G*

Still doing renovations to that part, so I've not posted it yet. But she did move out after this interlude with Jay, telling Adam she wasn't comfortable with the whole exclusive relationship. She needed her space. (Very 60s explanation. *G*) He seemed to take it well, said it was cool, and asked if they could still see each other, the way they would see other people. She said yes, thinking he'd find someone else. Plus, she genuinely liked him, and wanted to be his friend. (I know, how lame.) Jay, meanwhile, was out of the country, wrapping up the last tours his old band was contracted to do.
>
>Okay lets say I perceive that she has feelings for
>Adam, and can understand that is part of why she
>stayed with him but…she knew here (the right thing to
>do) that Adam wasn’t for her. What else I don’t get
>is how long her and Adam have been together where they
>both think of themselves as an exclusive couple. And
>if I recall something else correctly, Adam wasn’t too
>upset when they broke up, he was more upset over the
>fact that he ‘lost’ her to Jay. Guilt is a powerful
>motivator, not doubt about it, but I don’t get the
>point of the guilt here. I guess what I’m trying to
>say is this. Katie has so far in my opinion come
>across as strong, decisive, and the kind of woman that
>would go after what she wants. Her coming from the
>Haught proves that. It’s an era where free love rules
>and attitudes about sex are quite liberal, so the
>guilt does seem a bit false to me. What is the guilt
>in response to? Her acting on her attraction to his
>best friend or her not feeling the same thing toward
>Adam that he does for her? And yes, I get the kiss
>between Jay and Katie wasn’t like something she ever
>experienced before. But still, I imagine that any
>instant attraction that feels this right isn’t
>stoppable. Both Jay and Katie made a conscious
>decision to have that second kiss and for Katie all it
>took was a look at Jay for the guilt to be swept away.
> If she has feelings that are strong enough for Adam
>to make her stay with him despite what she feels for
>Jay, the guilt seems a mockery when she asks Jay to
>kiss her again. Maybe if the guilt came afterward,
>but not during the kiss, because she did recognize it
>as something special, because it was the turning point
>in her feelings toward Adam, because she wasn’t ready
>to forget how Jay made her feel and because she didn’t
>want to hurt Adam. If that makes sense.

This makes perfect sense. I think perhaps that's what's been worrying me about this bit. I liked it, but there was always this niggling little feeling that something wasn't quite right about it. I think you've found it. The guilt should come after. And it ties in very well with her decision to move out of Adam's flat. Yes!!

Thank you, thank you, thank you! That's it!!

Tons o' hugs!

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[> [> Chiming in late. -- Larn, 22:10:13 07/26/09 Sun

I agree with Esther, especially since all they do is kiss.

And this may be way off, but does the "betrayal" have to be centered around sex? Coming from such an open lifestyle and mindset, I'm thinking it could be something else that triggers the rift between Adam and Katie. Maybe Adam's working on a song and Katie innocently shares it with Jay. Or maybe not that but something similar. It seems like that would cause more pain to Adam than her being unfaithful sexually.

Just an idea.

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