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Date Posted: 17:59:24 05/15/10 Sat
Author: Paige2
Subject: Re: If there are enough people posting to worry about keeping up with crits, I'll be ecstatic and worry about keeping up after I pick myself up off the floor. I'm just sayin...
In reply to: Debi 's message, "If there are enough people posting to worry about keeping up with crits, I'll be ecstatic and worry about keeping up after I pick myself up off the floor. I'm just sayin..." on 18:04:37 05/14/10 Fri

Well I'm a newbie to the board and honestly I'm not sure of all the rules but I'm going to throw my 2 cents in if it's alright, as I am a bit muddled.

I was under the impression, and please forgive me one and all if I am wrong. I thought we were here to share our writings/excerpts and, if any felt so inclined, to crit it. The crit helps all of us to grow as writers. Am I expecting everyone to crit my excerpt, no. But, I think if at least 1-2 people respond and others say, "as xyz said-love it, or, not my cup of tea", I am good with that. :-)

Since I am a newbie I feel as though I must respond to everyone's crit (I count it as a post) and I am finding it hard to give a great crit and keep up with my current WIP. Now I find there are homework assignments too. (Do I have to write something on those as well? gasp!)

Time is a rare commodity for me and when I have it I work on my WIP, which is what I suspect everyone else on this board is doing as well. :-) (Yeah...Go us!)

I enjoy reading everyone's excerpts, as everyone here is very talented. Unfortunately, I do not always have time to give a full soft/hard crit, but what I can and will tell you is whether I like/love something or see a typo, and whether I agree/disagree with the response(s) before mine.

I'm a bit confused, what is expected of me? Help!


Also (getting back up on the box), i/m/o I would think if you respond to someone's excerpt you are in fact posting. If you put up a new message, even if its just to say, Hi I'm alive and in the writing trenches-came up to breathe. Heading back in." is a post.

I think if someone has worked a scene/excerpt to death and really needs advice on it or a serious crit - post it up; shouldn't matter what day of the week it is. However, what I would like to see, and this is just me, (perhaps THIS should be the homework assignment), after someone has given the crit/advice, put the reworked excerpt back up so we can read it and then mark the thread as CLOSED.

Just my 2 cents (or was that 25 cents worth) of unsolicited commentary. Going back into the trenches now, I have to explain to two (not so happy) men a pregnancy, two deaths and two spells. Hmmmmmmm that homework assignment looks good - I'll take the line please.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Good ideas... -- debikm, 22:10:00 05/15/10 Sat

What always was so appealing to me about this board is its lack of hard and fast rules. As far as I am concerned, as long as we are respectful and offer creative criticisms, that's how it should stay.

Don't be a board hog, posting your stuff all the time and not commenting on others. Give and take, that's what it's all about. If I wanted rules and regulations about everything, I'd join one of those very regimented crit groups. Let's keep it as simple as we can. Post as you like, offer comment as you are able and inclined. What does the poster want? I'm always open the whatever my friends here can offer: hard, soft, typo patrol, whatever. As long as all I get isn't "This sucks!!!" with no ideas on how to fix it, I'm good.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Well geez Debi, if we don't have rules, how can I break them? >>> -- Esther, 20:15:27 05/16/10 Sun

What always was so appealing to me about this board is its lack of hard and fast rules. As far as I am concerned, as long as we are respectful and offer creative criticisms, that’s how it should stay.

Don’t be a board hog, posting your stuff all the time and not commenting on others. Give and take, that’s what it’s all about. If I wanted rules and regulations about everything, I’d join one of those very regimented crit groups. Let’s keep it as simple as we can. Post as you like, offer comment as you are able and inclined. What does the poster want? I’m always open the whatever my friends here can offer: hard, soft, typo patrol, whatever. As long as all I get isn’t “This sucks!!!” with no ideas on how to fix it, I’m good.

While it’s true the board works because we’re a giving, courteous group, without a bunch of hard and fast rules, I feel there are guidelines we all need to follow. If not, why do we have a FAQ? Why do homeworks have their own set of protocols? More importantly, why is Paige posting that she’s a bit confused and is asking what is expected of her? She has some damned good points, and it’s her fresh outlook that enforces my opinion that something needs to be done and that this needs to be clarified. I’m not asking that we sign our souls away with our own blood, or expect a drill sergent to enforce them, but yeah, we all need to on the same page. I haven’t forgotten what it was like to be a newbie. And you know what? There might not have been strict rules, (although the library link existed back then and it did answer all sorts of these kinds of things) but I did follow what the others were doing until I learned the ropes. What do newbies have to follow here? With no guidelines, everyone is supposedly able to post whatever they want, however they want, whenever they want, as per their inclination, as long as they’re not being a board hog and are commenting on others posts where able to do so or however they are so inclined. I’m of the mind that this thinking doesn’t lead to a cohesive board working towards the same goal. Even I don’t know what kind of response I’m expected to give on some posts.

Give and take is great. Let’s keep it simple works for me too. So let’s get it that way. Here are my thoughts…

As you are aware, I feel I muddied the waters with instigating the ‘check-in’ way back when, when Larn threw down the gauntlet. A check-in was then, as I feel it should be now, a way to post what we’ve written, onto the board without any expectation besides that it’ll be read by someone. It was meant to keep us up to date on what we’ve been working on and it still has the ability to function in that capacity. Simply, a way to congregate and share our creative writing. The keyword being share. I can’t see the benefit of everyone who wants to post a check-in all starting their own thread because the intent isn’t the same as it is for crits or homeworks and I think it’ll make the board scroll faster than it should. The intent of the post is just to share our writing from the week, and I feel having it grouped together under one post enforces the perception that we all can post a bit from our work, and have the knowledge we’re not the only one out there. Kinda like the Bulletin Board on the Social Board, only we’re sharing something we’ve written. A weekly check-in post should be the call that goes out for the fun to begin. A new post, to me, signifies the need to do something, or that someone is asking for a critique. A check-in, is not IMO, a stepping stone to request a crit because that option is available to anyone as soon as they have a scene that needs a critique and they take the opportunity to start a new post. A separate post requesting a crit is a serious endeavour that should be taken that way. I don’t believe it matters what day anyone posts, but no, I don’t like the impression that comes to mind when someone claims/states a certain day to post. If a certain day works better as far as posting goes, fine, post that day, but don’t call out dibs. If necessary maybe we should bring back the monthly goals because that’s where the desire to post a new scene for critique every week should be posted and not in a check-in. Posting goals for the world to read doed hold us accountable.

Well, some things for you lallybrochians to think about and let me know.

Hugs

Esther

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[> [> [> [> [> [> I haven't made it to your post yet, so I'll say it here. Welcome to the Lit Forum! And now if you will, step this way >>> -- Esther, 18:50:32 05/16/10 Sun

Well I'm a newbie to the board and honestly I'm not sure of all the rules but I'm going to throw my 2 cents in if it's alright, as I am a bit muddled.

Newbie opinions are always valued and appreciated. Especially when you’re throwing out 2 cents. *G* IMHO, the fact that you’re muddled means we need to address these things.

I was under the impression, and please forgive me one and all if I am wrong. I thought we were here to share our writings/excerpts and, if any felt so inclined, to crit it. The crit helps all of us to grow as writers. Am I expecting everyone to crit my excerpt, no. But, I think if at least 1-2 people respond and others say, "as xyz said-love it, or, not my cup of tea", I am good with that. :-)

Well, it’s not so cut and dried as that. Yes we are here to share our writing. Not quite, to the if any felt so inclined, to crit it. Yes, I agree they are an invaluable tool to improve our writing. Done right, the writer and the critiquer learn and grow and can improve their own work.

But here’s where it gets dicey. You see, crits are the life-blood of this board. And true, yes, any that participate on this board _choose_ to do so. So if I’m not inclined to crit your work, for whatever reason, why would you be inclined to crit mine when I posted? Why should I anticipate you would be willing to spend your time, time that you could spend on your own writing or doing anything else you value, when I choose, for whatever reason, not to crit yours. Now, I don’t keep score. I don’t say to myself, well gee, I crited five scenes for her, and she’s only done two for me, so she owes me three before I crit anymore. We all understand the life thing we have going on the side, and we don’t have rules that force us to contribute before we receive something in return. This is truly a give and take board, and let me assure you, it works. The more you give to it, the more you get back out of it.

But Paige, hon, you need to raise your expectations. One to two people responding is good? Someone commenting with a generalized comment, basically riding on the shirttails of someone elses time and crit? That is _not_ good with me. Yeah, you can expect something along those lines every once in a while, but it is not the norm. Or it shouldn’t be. And I can’t speak for anyone else, but I know when I crit I never read the other comments/crits until I have finished mine, so you will never get a comment like I agree with so and so, or so and so got all my nits from me. Seeing what someone else sees limits what I am capable of. If that makes any sense. I believe to truly experience everything firsthand is what allows us to grow as writers. And trust me, I’ve critted scenes here on this board that were not my cup of tea, and they were the ones where I learned the most, and where, I believe, my comments held weight because I was the new set of eyes in a world I didn’t understand.

Since I am a newbie I feel as though I must respond to everyone's crit (I count it as a post) and I am finding it hard to give a great crit and keep up with my current WIP. Now I find there are homework assignments too. (Do I have to write something on those as well? gasp!)

If you’re referring to the crits you received in regards to your excerpt, yes, you should always respond to them, and not just because you’re a newbie. It the courtesy thing to let whomever took the time to go through your except that you appreciate their time and that you value the feedback they choose to give you.

If you’re referring to critiquing the posts of others to offer feedback on their story, this is where you choose to give of your time, knowledge and experiences to help a fellow writer, and yes, I can say they appreciate any insight you can provide. This is the life-blood I referred to.

I would have thought Debi would respond regarding the homework question you had since she’s the homework maven, but since she didn’t, I’ll try and ease your mind. Homework assignments are optional and you need not feel obligated to write one unless one inspires you. Sometimes writing a homework assignment helps get the juices flowing again, and sometimes it’s a way to participate on the board. But whatever the reason for choosing to write one, homework is meant to be fun, and so they are not critted, but this is where general comments come into play. Perhaps what you liked, didn’t like or what works for you or what doesn’t. However, crits can be requested by the poster, and then the usual applies.

Time is a rare commodity for me and when I have it I work on my WIP, which is what I suspect everyone else on this board is doing as well. :-) (Yeah...Go us!)

Yay us is right! Finding time to write is challenging in itself. Kudos to those that do!

I enjoy reading everyone's excerpts, as everyone here is very talented. Unfortunately, I do not always have time to give a full soft/hard crit, but what I can and will tell you is whether I like/love something or see a typo, and whether I agree/disagree with the response(s) before mine.

Yup, there are extremely talented writers on this board. And I’m grateful to be part of the LOL community. Unfortunately, I’m in the same boat as you as far as time goes. All we ask is that you do what you can. Sometimes you can only offer impressions, sometimes you can get into more depth, sometimes you might not have time to reply at all. We understand and do appreciate that you are trying and are doing the best you are able.

This is where I think the more specific we are as to what we want the better for everyone as our request/expectations/needs have a better chance of being satisfied and conversely if our time as critiquers is limited we can give the feedback the writer needs without mudding the waters with general comments that don’t really help or are not what we are looking for.

Typos should always be pointed out. But we are not here to agree or disagree with someone else’s response as that has the potential to take comments to help us improve our stories and make them personal. We are here to offer our own opinion when it is asked for, and as such, it is never right, and it is never wrong. It just is. We are all entitled to express our thoughts without fear that someone might not agree with our view/opinion. If comments we make become the focus of anothers critique, that person is critiquing our view/opinion and making it personal. Writing is personal, but the focus here is not. The focus needs to stay on the writing as it is presented to us and not have the critique become about another’s view or target the author him/herself. That has the potential to bring personal feelings and emotions into it, and the last thing I want to do is to hurt someone’s feelings. As long as our intent is to help in a constructive manner, and we offer constructive criticism on the writing and the story as we view it as readers, what others have to say is another perception that bring our world(s) to life. Differing views are encouraged, justifying the why we feel the way we do is not. The beauty of this board is that we can disagree. IMHO the more viewpoints the better.

I’m a bit confused, what is expected of me? Help!

Well, hon, I tried to, but if I wasn’t clear, (which happens all the time BTW) feel free to contact me, or post your questions on the board.


Also (getting back up on the box), i/m/o I would think if you respond to someone’s excerpt you are in fact posting. If you put up a new message, even if its just to say, Hi I’m alive and in the writing trenches-came up to breathe. Heading back in.” is a post.

You were on a box? Geez. I’d hardly call this post a soapbox post. *G*

Well, in my mind, I do use certain words to identify specific things. If you are responding to someone’s excerpt, you are replying. If you are replying to comments you received on a crit on your excerpt, you are responding. If you start a new message, you are posting.

I think if someone has worked a scene/excerpt to death and really needs advice on it or a serious crit – post it up; shouldn’t matter what day of the week it is. However, what I would like to see, and this is just me, (perhaps THIS should be the homework assignment), after someone has given the crit/advice, put the reworked excerpt back up so we can read it and then mark the thread as CLOSED.

I definitely agree that the day you post doesn’t matter.

As far as reposting a scene after reworking it based on the comments, I don’t see how this can work. Speaking just for myself, sometimes it takes a fair amount of time to rework a scene and by that time, the original post is in the archives, and the only time the thread can be closed is when it scrolls through all ten pages in the archives and disappears from the WWW altogether. Now it is possible to post a message on an archived one, which brings it back to the main page. I don’t think that is what we want because a) it’s already had its day and b)this would cause the newer posts to scroll. Even if it’s posted as a new message, I don’t think this would be a good use of board space, unless the writer is still having issues with it or wants more feedback on the changes. That is a personal decision and it has happened.

Just my 2 cents (or was that 25 cents worth) of unsolicited commentary. Going back into the trenches now, I have to explain to two (not so happy) men a pregnancy, two deaths and two spells. Hmmmmmmm that homework assignment looks good – I’ll take the line please.

Well, since you offered your two cents, and then got back on the box, I’d say that this was your four cents on the issues. I appreciate your taking the time to comment, jumping right into the fray as it were. *G* Oh and good luck explaining a pregnancy, two deaths, and two spells. I think I’d like to hear that myself! *G*

Hugs

Esther

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