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!!SPOILER ALERT!!

If you have not read a book that is in any subject title line, pass over it!
Unless of course you don't mind spoilers that is!

This is where we "Spill The Beans" and talk, talk, talk about any book we've read and want to share with others who have also read it - and for those who haven't read the book and don't mind spoilers!

Post about a book you did or did not like. Your opinions are yours, and we always agree to disagree - constructively, tastefully, respectfully, and with sensitivity to each other and our authors.

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"THE RBL/HUGHIE RATINGS!!!!"
Use them to let us know what you think of your latest read!!!!!
STORY RATING
1- Don't waste your money.
1 If you have it, it's worth the read but goes back to the ubs.
2 Good story, but probably goes to the ubs.
3 I like everything this author writes, but they've done better.
4 This is a keeper.
4+ Rare find, must find everything this author has written.
5 THERE ARE NO WORDS FOR THIS BOOK!!!!!

SEX/LOVE SCENE RATING
Limp=> Bad, little or NO SEX AT ALL!
Erect==> Good sex toward the end.
Boner===> Good sex half-way through and thereafter.
STIFF====> Good sexual tension throughout the book, and when it happens, you feel you've been there already.
HUGH=====> GREAT SEX in the first 1/4 of book and throughout the book.

• 1)Why/How is Alexion different from the "other" shades? -- , 02:25:19 08/04/05 Thu
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  • Yup, he got the wild card with Ash and managed to get partially saved. I found it wonderfully heartening to see a shade getting a HEA, without totally losing the whole shadedom curse. When we found out he was a shade (sort of) I couldn't figure out how Sherri was going to pull of a HEA, but TA DA DA she did it without ruining the threat of shadedom as a deterrent. (NT) -- Chez, 02:42:31 08/04/05 Thu
    • I agree with you Chez, BUT - I don't think this HEA is at its completion yet! I have a feeling Sherri might come back and 'redeem' them somehow in another book - sort of like Amanda & Kyrian, who were the only mortals and became immortal in STN. Yeah, I definitely think this is a temporary arrangement!!!! (NT) -- , 04:56:04 08/04/05 Thu
      • To answer Bo's question: Alexion is different because he was sort of the mutant that started the evolution... a test case, no rules were determined yet... BTW, I'd totally writeen him off, I figured Alexion was either Callabrax or Kyros! (NT) -- Lina, 04:59:18 08/04/05 Thu
  • Well, he's different in that he works for Ash and he does get to come to earth and experience earthly things every now and again. Is that better or is actually more painful to know what you will never truly have? We already know that his character is much colder then what we're used to witht he passionate Dark Hunters. I think that comes from his shadedom. (NT) -- , 11:48:36 08/04/05 Thu
  • I was mildly surprised that he turned out to be Ias.I really felt for him as the book went on,his being the reason the Dark-Hunters have an out clause,yet unable to use it.I don't know if I necessarily believe that line about what was done to him being irreversible,even for Acheron. (NT) -- Boadicea, 14:51:52 08/04/05 Thu
    • Forgot to include this in the above-It really jarred me,that three times Ias has been "killed" or "altered" in some way.First his human death,then his being turned into a shade,then finally Stryker planting a weak soul into him,and all he had left is his "ousia" to combine with anything to give him a semblance of being.That was one of the more emotional moments in the book for me. (NT) -- Bo again, 15:03:38 08/04/05 Thu
  • If I remember correctly, Alexion is "tied" to Ash in the same manner as Ash to Artemis. When Ash made Alexion, he had no other knowledge as to how to go about the job. So he gave Ias his blood. Very interesting. and can't wait to see how the similarities between Ash and Alexion continue to pan out. (NT) -- MsE, 19:59:40 08/04/05 Thu
    • The above information is found on pages 274-275. Gross but true. (NT) -- MsE, 20:25:39 08/04/05 Thu
  • Alexion talks about being able to hear other shades, which I assumed was unique (if they could all hear and talk to each other, the curse wouldn't be quite so awful). So he's more than an average shade. (NT) -- Beth, 05:04:01 08/05/05 Fri

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• 5)Xirena informs Alexion that he bears "the mark of royal family." Alexion is surprised at this,as Ash had offered no explanation for the mark except to say that he had to bear it in order to live.(The yellow sun with three lightning bolts)What,if any,significance/meaning does this mark have? -- , 02:18:37 08/04/05 Thu
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  • Perhaps it's his security badge, tha allows him to live with Ash, instead of going through whatever it is that happens to other Shades. (NT) -- , 05:04:04 08/04/05 Thu
  • Wouldn't this mark be similar to the bow/arrow mark of the DH? Meaning that he is in the service of Ash and not Artie, or anyone else. (NT) -- Huddles, 05:19:33 08/04/05 Thu
  • LOL, I can't even begin to imagine. I like Huddles idea. Obviousely Ash had to do something to save Ias and he was relatively new at his powers when he did it so that could be why we don't see it anyone else. (NT) -- , 12:05:06 08/04/05 Thu
  • I like Huddles' idea,too,that it is Ash's mark of service.That mark also appears on the "formesta" robe thing that Ash wears while at home in Katoteros.Plus there is that strange writing Danger sees in the middle of the mark-i'd be mighty interested to know what all it says,Sherri! *G* (NT) -- Boadicea, 15:05:48 08/04/05 Thu
  • Here is the deal... Alexion IS a god. Because he has Ash's blood running through his veins. The mark, same as the one on Ash's robe, which signifies his lineage also MARKS Alexion as a family member. Royalty. Also, Alexion knew the words to *command* a Charonte. Although I doubt he heard Ash use it on Simi. Moreover, Alexion said on page page 13, "I know you know everything boss, I got that a long time ago." IMHO Ash knew that there would come a day when Alexion would need that mark to save his life. Remember both Charonte were laying a major Smackdown on Alexion when he 1) Issued the command that saved his life and 2) the mark was revealed to save his life. That is the siginificance *in this case* of the mark. Next book, who knows! LOL (NT) -- MsE, 21:23:33 08/04/05 Thu
    • Oooh,I like where this goes..Alexion a god.The plot thickens,right? *BG* (NT) -- Boadicea, 22:39:32 08/04/05 Thu

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• 8)Why is Stryker obsessed with defeating Ash? -- , 02:08:11 08/04/05 Thu
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  • Cause he's a major poo poo head. (NT) -- Chez, 02:50:06 08/04/05 Thu
  • 'cause "mom" likes Ash best. (NT) -- Huddles, 05:21:51 08/04/05 Thu
  • Again, I like what Huddles said but also it's an ego thing. His is bigger than Ash's or so he would like to believe. Plus, isn't Stryker (and I could be soooo wrong) adopted? So right there, he's going to hate Ash because he's not the legit son. (NT) -- , 13:46:23 08/04/05 Thu
  • Adopted by Apollymi supposedly,after he scorned Apollo.His motives for wanting to defeat Ash,IMHO,are just a matter of destiny-The year of his birth,when the Oracles told Apollo that son would be the one to overthrow the Atlantean gods,and Ash is an Atlantean god,from what I've gleaned so far.I can't see Stryker being redeemed at any point in the future-I think he will ultimatley prove to be the "top" villain in the Dark-Hunter world,or second only to Apollymi. (NT) -- Boadicea, 13:59:58 08/04/05 Thu
  • Stryker is jealous of all that Ash is and means to Apollymi. He is also bitter that his own son chose to aid Ash against him. Which resulted in his killing his on son. Stryker is also under the false pretense that Ash is not as powerful as everyone believes because his 'mommy" keeps saving Ash when they confront each other. Stryker choses to have selective recall when it comes to Ash being the Elekti. Apollymi has commented before to Stryker that he cannot defeat Ash. But I think the undertone is because Apollymi will not allow it. Ii is MHO that Ash is going to have to put a major hurt on Stryker before he will believe what everyone are starting to see and believe. Ash is one bad hombre. (NT) -- MsE, 21:35:21 08/04/05 Thu

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• 4)Do you think it too coincidental that the Charonte demon sent to kill Alexion just happened to be Simi's sister? -- , 02:19:53 08/04/05 Thu
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  • Well as I don't think there are that many Charonte's left I reckon the others would have to be fairly closely related. But it's soooo cute Simi now has a shopping partner. (NT) -- Chez, 02:46:54 08/04/05 Thu
  • Yeah I actually do think that was coincidence, but you never know with Sherri... (NT) -- , 05:02:06 08/04/05 Thu
  • I don't think coincidence is the word that comes to mind. I loved the fact that it was Simi's sister because of how things should be between Charonte demonas and their masters and how things actually are between Ash and Simi was fun to watch. I think Simi's sister was one of the highlights of the book for me. (NT) -- , 11:55:33 08/04/05 Thu
  • I too,enjoyed Xirena and Simi's antics.I lean a little towards Sherri having to have it this way,because look how hard Carradoc was beating the hell out of Alexion,if he had to suffer another attack like that,he most likely would have died.I think the fact that Xirena bonded to Alexion will play a role in future books. (NT) -- Boadicea, 15:01:30 08/04/05 Thu
  • At first, I thought "damn this is too much of a coincidence" and was somewhat disappointed. But then the old brain kicked in and I began to do what do best, over analyze! *snort* Then I remembered a couple of scenes in the book where Stryker and Xirena are talking of Apollymi and her abilities. Then I re-read page 73 which clearly states that Appollymi "seldom" allowed her Charonte out of Kalosis. It did not say NEVER. Most importantly, when Xirena is asking Alexion to bond with him, she states that Apollymi could pull her back or reclaim her and kill her page 270-271. This got me to thinking that "maybe" Apollymi is well aware of what Styker is up to and is sending Ash as much support as a mother can in her situation. So no, I do not think it was a coincidence. AG, please tell me if I am wrong?! *hopeful look* Again, I think this book is a 'transitional" book where we see the players in Ash's story starting to align and seperate themselves out. *another hopeful look* (NT) -- MsE, 20:24:38 08/04/05 Thu

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• 10) Did Ash's allowing Danger to come live in his home seem uncharacteristic and farfetched,based upon what we know of Ash and his determination to guard his privacy? -- , 02:06:01 08/04/05 Thu
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  • Made the Big man seem even Bigger. Besides now he has two Simi sitters. (NT) -- Chez, 02:54:23 08/04/05 Thu
  • Actually, it was more uncharacteristic and far-fetched that Ias and Simi are there with him. He's much more compassionate now than he was in the beginning. He's come a long way from where he was when he died. (NT) -- Sherrilyn , 12:59:02 08/04/05 Thu
    • Well I can't wait to see Ash's story and see for myself his journey. That's interesting that he's gotten more compassionate as he's gotten older whereas Ias has gotten less. (NT) -- , 13:52:59 08/04/05 Thu
  • I am guessing because of his betrayal,he figured fu*k the world,and was terribly bitter and apathetic for a long time,then,Sherri? Maybe even for the 2,000 years he stayed away from Artemis or whatever.(I have a REALLY cuckoo theory about Ash,BTW,if anyone wants to hear it)It was strange at first that he would allow them to be there,but I am guessing he wanted to give Ias some sort of reward for all his long,if somewhat unpleasant at times,service to him.I just thought of this,too,Ash can always erase any memories he chooses too,like he did to Zarek in Dance. (NT) -- Boadicea, 15:22:08 08/04/05 Thu
    • You know I want to hear it Bo! Email me if you don't want to post is:) (NT) -- Leiha, 16:45:55 08/04/05 Thu

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• Welcome to the madness! First off,a big thanks to Sherri for giving us another great book to dissect *G* and for admitting to her evil genius...on page 114,where Alexion is telling Danger how he "spends many an hour logged on under a pseudonym,leading all of you down murky paths just so that I can watch your minds work out the speculation." HA! We know a confession when we read it,don't we,my fellow Dark-Hunter addicts? But we gotta love her for at least admitting to it! Beware the glare of SK's horneys! *G* And I also want to give a HUGH thanks to (((MsE))) for being an AWESOME co-hostess as usual! She rocks! Hopefully we have something for everyone below,so have at it! -- , 02:34:04 08/04/05 Thu
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  • Ooookay you ladies thought up some really good questions. Well done Bo and MsE. I love these discussions. (NT) -- Chez, 02:56:48 08/04/05 Thu
    • Bwahahahaha Bo bet you didn't expect participants this early in your day/late in mine. (NT) -- Chez, 02:59:24 08/04/05 Thu
      • LOL (NT) -- Boadicea, 08:18:55 08/04/05 Thu
  • I'll try and answer as best that I can, I read the book as soon as it came out and haven't had a chance for a reread and unlike Bo, I don't have prolific notes, LOL. (NT) -- , 11:49:58 08/04/05 Thu
  • I laughed like a lunatic when I read this part,I can see her sitting at her 'puter,getting hours of amusement off of us and the people at her board! Like i said,though,you gotta love her for owning up to it! *VBG* (NT) -- Boadicea, 15:32:12 08/04/05 Thu

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• SINS OF THE NIGHT BY SHERRILYN KENYON DISCUSSION BELOW... -- , 02:52:53 08/04/05 Thu
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  • Hey all!!! Visit Acheron's journal on Sherri's site,and in the Aug 3rd entry is him musing about trying to have privacy while THE NEW ALEXION KEEPS MAKING GOOGOO EYES AT THE OLD ONE!!! So,it appears that Danger & Ias are BOTH "Alexions" for Ash! (NT) -- Bo again, 08:47:04 08/04/05 Thu
  • Very interesting! Hugs and Kudos to you Bo for all of your hard work! You Rock Sistah! (NT) -- MsE, 13:23:39 08/04/05 Thu

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• Help with the Dark-Hunter books. -- Torrie, 14:21:12 07/25/05 Mon
  Hello Ladies - I posted once a while back and everyone was so friendly. I was hoping someone could clear up some confusion I have on the Dark Hunter books. He is the short version of where I am at - I read all of the books up to Night Play then I got pregnant with twins. For some odd reason :) I couldn't concentrate on reading for a while, so I have not read the 2 most recent. I think they are Sins of the Night and Seize the Night. Anyway, I am back to reading again and started the books over before I go on to the new ones.
  
  I am on Wulf's book (Kiss) and I am confused by parts of the beginning (Thrylos). She starts talking about the year 9548 BC (Ash's birth) and mentions 2 babies. One between Apollymi and Archon and one between Apollo and the queen with the dead husband. I think I understand Apollo's baby was switched at birth, then Apollo later cursed his race and Cassandra is the last heir.
  
  What I don't understand is the baby between Apollymi and Archon. I follow it this way - She gets pregnant, the Fates make their death prophecy, she secretly delivers early and hides the baby in the mortal world, she delivers a stone baby, and Archon curses her to Kalosis until her son is dead. I guess I need to assume Archon knew or found out she hid the baby? And maybe I am making a big assumption, but I was thinking that baby was Ash. But, I thought he had a twin brother Styxx - it doesn't say anything about 2 babies from her? And it says they forced a confession about the baby out of Apollymi's sister but she lead them to the queen and Apollo's baby not to the mortal world where Apollymi's baby was really hidden. If she lied, that is great, but it doesn't sound like that in the book. Or maybe Archon misunderstood her confession and killed the wrong baby.
  
  Maybe I am not suppose to understand at this point in the books, but if I am missing something could someone fill me in.
  Thanks Torrie
  

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  • Some of what you're asking was answered in the booklet that was released with Sins of the Night at this link Click Here (NT) -- Beaty, 14:27:02 07/25/05 Mon
  • If that doesn't help, our resident experts should be here soon to answer any other questions you have. We do love talking Dark-Hunter! *G* (NT) -- Beaty, 14:28:22 07/25/05 Mon
  • Hi Torrie,welcome to THE best addiction there is! *G* When you read Seize the Night a few things will become easier to understand.I am 98% convinced that Apollymi is Ash's mother...but that wicked genius Sherri likes to shake us up just when we think we "know" something,LOL !I'm going to put a few key pages you might want to remember &re-read to help figure things out inside,so just click on my message...,or e-mail me if you want and I'll send you some of my notes...I've been doing a re-read of the Dark-Hunter books and have OODLES of notes...and MsE is our Scholar Goddess,she might pop in here and help clear things up,*cross your fingers* she is AWESOME!!!Anyways,click here for notes... -- Boadicea, 17:16:49 07/25/05 Mon
    • Thanks so much. -- Torrie, 05:48:36 07/26/05 Tue
  • You rang??! I swear my ears were burning *G* See inside for response >>>>>> -- MsE, 23:10:33 07/26/05 Tue

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• Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince -- Danielle, 11:52:53 07/19/05 Tue
  What did you think of the developments in this story? I posted the two things that I am wondering about the most at the moment. I have other questions, but these are the ones that seem to be most on my mind.
  

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  • I think to me the MOST SIGNIFICANT thing about this book was (2 things actually!) -- (A) Harry finally turned into a young man, gone is the pampered and fiercely protected little pup. (B) Harry realized that he's not doomed because of a prophecy, or pre-destined to live out his life trying to destroy Voldemort and save the wizarding world. I think he finally learned that ultimately he CHOSE to do those things, because it's what he wants and deems nessecary! He's now smarter than Voldemort and stronger, with less fears. I think we saw just how scared Voldemort was of every little thing to go to such lengths as to try and stop a prophecy, split up his soul, not to mention never loving/trusting/having friends ... he ultimately is a LONER! (NT) -- Lina, 12:37:56 07/19/05 Tue
  • I am glad that he is maturing. I thought that his talk with Ginny at the end showed much more maturity that he had at the beginning. I was beginning to get very tired of his whining in the previous books. I am also glad that he was able to realize what Dumbledore had been telling him all along was true (prophecy, love being stronger, etc). I agree that Voldemort is scared also. I am glad that he never realized how strong he could have been had he made real friends like Harry has done. (NT) -- Danielle, 14:20:19 07/19/05 Tue
  • One thing about what Harry said to Ginny - how come he feels he has to protect her by breaking up with her (and how much would that protect her anyway, like he's going to not care if she's not his girlfriend, and like Voldemort wouldn't figure that out), but it's okay for Ron and Hermione to risk themselves? Ginny's only a year younger. Was he doing a big misguided macho thing? Also, I get the feeling Malfoy might be the unexpected "goodie" of the last book, as he couldn't kill Dumbledore. He's never been really evil, just kind of mean. Not like Voldemort as a kid. And I agree too, there were way too many hints that Dumbledore was ready to die, I too haven't lost faith in Snape. I figure it will be at least two years before we find out. Rae. (NT) -- Rae, 20:20:11 07/19/05 Tue

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• Okay, my son says that Snape is beyond redemption and that he is totally bad and I am trying to read something into it that isn't there, but... DON'T READ FURTHER IF YOU DON'T WANT A BIG SPOILER! -- Danielle, 11:46:48 07/19/05 Tue
  
  
  
  I can't help but wonder if Dumbledore's faith in Snape was accurate. Yes, Snape killed him. But I keep wondering, why did he not kill Harry or Dumbledore before now. I know he said that Voldemort wants to kill Harry but he has sent others after Harry before. If Harry is the boy in the prophecy, wouldn't Voldemort want him dead by any means possible? Also, in one of the earlier books, Snape was actually trying to keep Harry safe during the quiddich game when he could just as easily have let the hex work its magic.
  
  Don't get me wrong, I don't like Snape, but I hate to think that Dumbledore had been completely misled.
  

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  • SPOILER! SPOILER! I agree with you Danielle - I think Dumbledore knew something about Snape we haven't yet found out! I also believe that he may have secured Snape's promise to finish him off in a desparate situation (much like he asked for Harry's promisees!). I think when he was pleading with Snape at the end, he was in fact asking Snape to finish him off and keep his promise. I think the green stuff Dumbledore drank WAS in fact the Horecrux, and not the locket. I think Dumbledore wanted Snape as soon as he saw the Death Mark to get killed indeed! And I believe this for many reasons, including the his cries while he was drinking the green goo, the fact that he kept saying his blood was worth less than Harry's, the fact that he asked Harry to promise to carry on EVEN if he was dying, the fact that he immobilized Harry instead of letting him go on and get help.... He was merelt delaying his own inevitable death to try and wait for Snape and to perhaps attempt Draco's redemption! (NT) -- Lina, 12:29:10 07/19/05 Tue
  • Good point. I hadn't thought about the liquid being a Horcrux. I couldn't figure out why Dumbledore didn't seem more surprised, but I do feel strongly that Snape is working for the good side rather than for Voldemort. (NT) -- Danielle, 14:14:23 07/19/05 Tue

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• What about at the funeral when Harry thought he saw the phoenix rise from the flames? SPOILER -- Danielle, 11:49:41 07/19/05 Tue
  Do you think that Dumbledore will show up in a Obi-Wan fashion in the last book. I sort of hope not, because that would seem a little like a rip off of another story. But I think Harry is still going to need guidance. I don't think he is ready to face Voldemort succesfully.
  

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  • I'm certain Dumbledore will NOT come back, but he will always be in the portait in the Headmaster's Chamber... and we know they are advisors to the live and in-office Headmaster. (NT) -- Lina, 12:31:57 07/19/05 Tue
  • I don't think that we will see Dumbledore as a living being again. I just got an image in my head of Dumbledore telling Harry to "Use the Force." I certainly hope that diesn't happen. I do wonder if there is a time frame where he will remain sleeping in his portrait before he communicates, or if she doesn't want to give it away, so that's why he didn't say anything. (NT) -- Danielle, 14:12:03 07/19/05 Tue

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• Outlander -- Ray, 22:52:17 07/05/05 Tue
  Hi everyone,
  
  I know Outlander has probably been done to death, but I'm hoping you all won't mind revisiting it a bit. The scene towards the end, where Claire saves Jamie from his torture injuries by pretending to be Randall (sort of) - it took me years to understand it and it really only happened in the last few months since I started doing trauma therapy myself (I'm training as a psychologist). Anyway, I just wondered if others had the same difficulty with it - why it worked, why Claire decided to do it, etc. I know Diana Gabaldon describes her writing process as "seeing" what happens and then trying to capture that, which may explain why there was so much ambiguity there.
  Silly logistical question too - I have been looking through the archive stuff and there were a couple of discussions I wouldn't have minded posting on - is that possible after the fact, or do you just have to catch the thread while it's happening?
  
  Thanks everyone!
  

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  • I know I had a hard time reading about that whole incident. I don't doubt that there was a psycological reason for having Claire "be" Randall, but it certainly turned my stomach a little...Ok, it turned it a lot. And to answer your question, yes, you would need to respond to the posts as they are happening. I mean, you can, but likely no one would see your responses if it's very far down the board. (NT) -- Bobbi, 06:39:01 07/08/05 Fri
  • The ENTIRE "interlude" with Randall,and Jamie's subsequent behavior,pi$$ed me off,it felt like a slap in the face to me,because I thought VERY highly of Jamie by then,admired him,etc.It was hard to read,but the rest of the book & others in the series were so great,I chose to ignore the "ewww" factor,and now Outlander & Dragonfly are my faves in the series,to date.I think Claire was extremely ballsy to do it,though.Like she felt that only by bringing him to that lowest point in his life,the height of shame ,humilation,etc.,would he face it & get past it. (NT) -- Boadicea, 17:00:15 07/08/05 Fri
    • continuing... everything that Jamie has been through(Ray,have you read all the other books in the Outlander series?) has made him who he is.I admire him that much more for the way he has dealt with everything life has thrown at him.I have trouble putting my feelings for Jamie Fraser into a neat little box(Just ask Vic,LOL ) but he is one of my VERY favorite heroes. (NT) -- Bo again, 17:06:21 07/08/05 Fri
  • Hey Bo, yes I've read them all, can't wait for the new one. My fave is Dragonfly in Amber, but I think that's because I love 18th century French history. Anyway, glad to see it wasn't just me. And I love Jamie too, although he's starting to be inhuman with all that he's endured (I mean, no-one can deal with all that and be okay!). (NT) -- Rae (aka Ray), 18:09:22 07/14/05 Thu

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• Net Anita Blake Book - Danse Macabre -- Tammy, 16:46:05 07/04/05 Mon
  Wanted to pass along these tidbits that I just got abut Danse Macabre from a friedn who spoke to Laurell recently, and listened to her read the first 3 chapters.
  
  
  Okay Laurell read the first 3 full chapters from the new book coming out next spring, Danse Macabre.
  The book starts off with Anita sweating a pregnancy scare...and yes I said pregnancy. Possible daddies are two
  of her favorite furry boys. I won't give that away unless you ask...*rubs hands together and grins* (LOL, this is directly from my friend's email and she hasnt' told me yet who it is I'm still waiting)
  She's telling Ronnie whats going on and all that...You're sooooo not going to like Ronnie in this book. She's become a bitch in a very short time.
  
  Anita isn't going to tell the boys and Ronnie lets it slip because she's angry/pissed off at Anita kissing Nathaniel and Micah in front of her.
  
  Thats the major plot line of the book so far... Danse Macbre is a dance troupe that Jean Claude supports, They are in town for a series of performances. Lets see...Laurell said as of now the book is over 400 manuscript pages and Edward hasn't made his
  appearance yet so that means there are many many more pages left to the book. Yes both Edward and Olaf are coming to town.
  Anita is still sleeping with Richard...on quite a regular basis as well. And Ronnie is officially moving in with Louis Fane. Otherwise
  those are all the tidbits that Laurell gave us that I can remember off the top of my head. If I think of anything more I'll let you know.
  
  As soon as I know more I'll let you all know.
  

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  • You know that I wnat to know who the daddies are!!! Thanks for the spoilers Tammy, I love it!!!! Maybe you could post the daddies inside in case ity's too much infor for some. (NT) -- Leiha, 00:14:54 07/05/05 Tue
  • Possible daddies inside info inside -- Tammy, 16:29:42 07/06/05 Wed
    • Wouldn't that be a kick if it was the first guy!!!!! (NT) -- Leiha, 10:24:00 07/07/05 Thu
      • OH YEAH! Although I'm surprised someone else wasn't mentioned. (NT) -- Tammy, 16:35:26 07/08/05 Fri

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• Dark Fire by Christine feehan/Carpathian series in general -- , 17:40:35 03/16/05 Wed
  I am really struggling with this book-it was up & down like/dislike for me through about the first 150 pages,and I just about decided to skim thru the whole thing,but have decided to finish it,even though it is going slow for me.
  I feel like Darius has done an about face from the way he was in Dark Challenge.In that story he was bossy,protective,a little domineering,yes,but it wasn't overboard.I am sorry to say that I'm disappointed in his story so far-I was really looking forward to Darius' story because he was a lot more interesting to me than Julian.So far,the only ones I have actually liked have been Jacques & Aidan.In Dark Challenge,Darius had everything I liked about Aidan,plus he seemed more dangerous,more powerful,right on the knife edge of "don't-touch",one of my fave kinds of alphas.Now he grates on my nerves with a arrogance that reminds me of Gregori(though not to that extreme,thankfully!)whom I cannot stand.I know Gregori is his brother and all,but still.And all the "honey" and "baby" stuff is irritating me,I don't mind once in a while,Darius calling Rusti/Tempest that,but it seems like every other page,at least.It just puts more repetition into the book,when I feel that these books are repetitious enough as it is,sometimes.The heroines are mostly described as small,fragile looking,etc.And they seem to start out with fairly strong wills,but end up getting steamrolled over by their mate,which makes me disgusted with them for not having more guts.I don't mind the repetition of find the lifemate,see the colors,the claiming,blood ritual,etc.That's part of the whole premise of the series,and I like it.I am not trying to trash this series,or Feehan herself,I swear.Because I really do enjoy a good bit of what goes on in some of the books,and Dark Gold & Dark Desire were really good,imho.I like the shapeshifter stuff,I like when the woman has her own unique powers,and I do like the idea of all the power the males wield.I just can't stand the oppressive way the woman is treated sometimes,like she is so stupid,she must be put under some kind of psychic lock & key because she tries to be herself.I actually deal with captor-captive stories better when it is a question of the hero locking the heroine in a tower,or kidnapping her,I have read and enjoyed many stories that have that plot device.But the way some of the Carpathian men treat their woman-ugh-it just makes my fingers curl,into choking mode, that is *G*
  Well,that is just my opinion,and my friend has loaned me Gabriel,Lucian,Byron,and one other story,dayan's I think.So,what are your thoughts on this series/book?
  

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  • I've read all of them except the latest (which I now have on order). The only ones I have as keepers are Dark Prince, Desire and Fire. I like Darius, but Jacques rocks! For me, the series is very much up and down. I love the themes, the different powers and the whole seeing color again is a great image. But I do wish she'd move the revelations up a pace. And I do think the heroes and heroines sometimes verge on patronizing (him) and childish (her). (NT) -- Beth, 22:17:49 03/16/05 Wed
    • Back again! My major peeve is illustrated by Julian or Deserai when they say that she could never, EVER take a life. Excuse me? Your family is being hunted by psychopathic sadists (and that's just the humans) and still you're too sensitive to get out the stakes, shotguns and flamethrowers? The protective hero is great, but please get over the angst and give him some backup! I love this series, which is why I think it has the capacity to annoy me so much. (NT) -- Beth, 23:07:00 03/16/05 Wed
  • I love the Carpathians! However, I do not always appreciate their jouney. I have found that if I read one book after another, the stories become repetitious and tend to drag. So, I have an enforced waiting period between books. I have yet to read the last two books. I have them. My favorite of the entire series is Dark Guardian, it was my first and I loved the heroines' name Jaxon! Too cool. (NT) -- MsE, 12:40:52 03/17/05 Thu
  • I tend to agree with all of you on the repetition of parts of the series but still LOVE them.. Dark Secret was to me refreshing in that the hero was the usual but the heroine was much more spunky & I totally LOVED IT!!! (NT) -- £inda, 10:46:05 03/20/05 Sun
  • Strangely enough Dark Fire and Jacques book are my favourites in the series. I loved Darius ... dunno why, just did ....totally alpha is what I like to read the most. Although on the other side of the coin I really enjoyed Dark Melody and Symphony for their gentler *snort* males. (NT) -- Chez, 16:55:55 03/24/05 Thu
  • Reply to the Dark Series -- Michele, 10:03:32 04/28/05 Thu
  • I love the Dark Series! And Gregori and Darius are TIED for my #1 choice of favorite males.....LOL, I guess its good that we can all exist together and still like/dislike different things. I agree that reading them one after the other would be difficult..... (NT) -- Robin , 17:27:15 06/02/05 Thu

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• Dark Guardian by Christine Feehan/Carpathian series -- , 19:59:05 05/10/05 Tue
  Okay,so I really loved Lucian,I think this book was refreshingly differeny,in many ways,from the others I have read so far,which have been kind of a hit and miss for me.
  
  I thought it was way cool,and nearly unbelievable at the same time,when he resigns himself to Jaxon hunting the vampires alongside him.Jaxon is a great heroine,the first one,IMHO,in the whole series,with the bit of steel backbone necessary to dealing with a Carpathian male.
  Lucian was endearing and sexy at the same time,a thing that,to me,is hard to pull off in a book sometimes.
  
  Tyler Drake was a good villain,although I was a little disappointed in a few things.I wanted to see from his point of view once or twice,like when he first was stalking around Lucian's estate,I think that would've been interesting and a great enhancement to the story,maybe shown us his motivation(yeah,I know a twisted psycho doesn't need much motivation,but just humor me a moment.*G*) and enriched the story a little more.I also wanted Jaxon to be the one that killed him in the end,maybe because he was human and not one of the undead.I guessed that it was coming,Lucian being the one to kill him,but I figured it would be because he tried to kill Jaxon.I never thought Drake would be able to get at Lucian,actually shoot him.I like the way Lucian thinks about this later,though.That he didn't recognize a murderous intent in Drake b/c Drake himself didn't see his actions as anything other than a good father,etc.It's a little weak,but just plausible enough to give satisfaction.
  
  I also enjoyed the way Jaxon's reactions to her new abilities was written.I just got more out of the book,the whole Carpathian"experience" if you will,by the way Jaxon thinks about the things she has to do.Like when she thinks about how to open the grave,float above,when they become mist,etc.It was a different angle than before,which was nice.The other Carpathians I've read,the reaction of the woman seems to be either disbelief/avoidance,nonchalant acceptance,or outright fear/fury.JMHO.
  
  Okay,now the part that is bugging me.In a good way,though,because it means I am interested,right? *G*
  Near the end of Dark Guardian,Lucian tells Jaxon that Gregori is his brother,about 1,000 years younger than he.I know they are immortal,but I am having a hard time reconciling them being born that far apart.And then,aren't Darius and Desari Lucian and Gregori's bro and sis,also?
  (As if it's not enough that Sherri makes my head spin,I now have to worry about keeping the carpathians straight!Cripes! *G*)The other thing is this,and I think I remember reading a clure,if not the answer,somewhere in this book,or else in Julian's,I think it was.When all that horrible massacre was going on that caused Darius to flee with Desari and the other children,where were Lucian ,Gabriel,and Gregori? What it sounds like is that Lucian & Gabriel were having their private little battle by then,and that only Gregori knew was their brother,and what was going on? My head is spinning...SOMEONE MAKE IT STOP...PLEASE!!!
  
  *Lost somewhere in the Carpathians*
  

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  • Bo, in general I try not to think too hard about the Carpathian timeline as I only get confused. It once occurred to me that the first book must have been set in the 60's, maybe even the 50's for the following books to make sense timewise, and that then throws up other contradictions. As far as I recall, most of the hunters were sent out into the world by Mikhail's father, so weren't around by the time the massacre occurred. I'm not sure there's ever been an explicit description of where everyone cwas. (NT) -- Beth, 22:27:51 05/10/05 Tue
    • Your right Beth, forget the timeline. After reading the first couple, then getting to Dark Magic, I began to wonder exactly "when" the Dark Prince took place. My sister told me just to read and enjoy the story. *G* She's so bossy. (NT) -- Gabmar, 15:58:27 05/11/05 Wed
  • You want me to think back how many books ago, LOL. I just came over here to read your comments, it's been so long since I've read Lucian's story I can't remember anything. As for the timeline, I agree, it's way off. (NT) -- Leiha, 12:35:16 05/11/05 Wed
  • Dark Guardian is one of my favorite Dark stories. Lucian was not the typical carpathian and Jaxon was a strong "warrior" female. Having Jaxon so strong, that when she went through the change, she adapted and kept going. (NT) -- Gabmar, 15:52:28 05/11/05 Wed

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• Bethie & Nicholas.... -- Candice, 08:22:38 04/03/05 Sun
  For a large majority of the novel Bethie and Nicholas were the only characters. Did it give you a sense of intimacy with them, or did the lack of secondary characters in the beginning bother you?
  

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  • I LOVED that it was just the two of them,for the longest time.It really did make me get into the story better,put me "there" much faster than I would have,had there been secondary people.I think having them alone for so long was good,b/c I was able to focus on them w/out distractions. (NT) -- Boadicea, 10:11:58 04/03/05 Sun
  • I don't think they would have been able to achieve the level of trust with one another that they did if others were around. I really liked that it was just the two of them. Nicholas didn't need a sidekick, and the baby was there too so it really gave it a sense of family. (NT) -- Christa, 12:37:30 04/03/05 Sun
  • It was basic human drama, It had my complete attention! Remember watching Tom Hanks in Castaway? I mean he was the only person on the screen for most of the movie, but we watched... mesmerized! (NT) -- Lina, 02:47:19 04/04/05 Mon
    • I absolutely LOVED the total focus on them. It was total focus on these two complex and intriguing people without the distraction of other people & situations (NT) -- Vic, 07:42:20 04/04/05 Mon
  • I think that it HAD to be just them in the beginning to give them the feeling of closeness & to rely on each other to be able to build the kind of relationship they came to have!!! (NT) -- Linda, 20:41:13 04/04/05 Mon
  • I agree with the other ladies again. I believe that this was really the best way to establish their relationship and develop a good sense of intimacy. It did not bother me at all. (NT) -- Danielle, 22:44:30 04/05/05 Tue
  • As you all know from SWEET RELEASE and CARNAL GIFT, I love secondary characters. I was very worried about my ability to pull the first part of this story off. Two people alone for 10 chapters? (Well, I didn't know it would be 10 chapters because I don't plan a story out in that detail; I mostly just write and see what happens.) But something happened when I was writing this. Bethie and Nicholas were just so REAL to me. They were right there beside me, and their interaction and how they began to open up to one another and how they held their pain became so important for me to show. I'm SO GLAD none of you were bored out of your minds. LOL! (NT) -- P.C., 21:38:12 04/06/05 Wed
  • I'm not a huge fan of secondart characters. Sometimes I feel the only time they are added is to introduce the next book. I'd rather be spared and focus on the story I'm reading. N & Bs bonding was so personal. I love it. (NT) -- jaycee, 09:36:32 04/07/05 Thu
  • I loved that they were alone together. In fact, I prefer books where the h/h are alone together for a long period of time. And in Nicholas and Bethie's case, by being alone, they had no choice but to get to know each other. It was wonderful how he helped her with her chores...chopping wood (picturing that.. :) ) and in that way she became less and less afraid of him..... (NT) -- xina, 21:24:24 04/09/05 Sat

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• And Finally........ -- Vic, 07:45:45 04/03/05 Sun
  I asked the author if there was anything SHE'D like to know from her readers because I imagine authors DO have things they wonder about as they write & contemplate what their reading public will think. And here's her response from her e-mail:
  
  <
  Which scene felt the most emotionally satisfying to them;
  
  Which was the most tense;
  
  I’d also like to know how it was for people who’d read the other books to see Alec and Jamie again>>
  
  Okay folks - just dig in & answer whatever strikes your fancy. And thank you Pamela for these questions and a WONDERFUL book!
  

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  • Well CRAP! I copied & pasted & MISSED ONE! An important & powerful one I think (DAMN ME!) anyway....HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT THE “NO MAN BUT ME" love scene. (NT) -- Vic, 11:00:15 04/03/05 Sun
  • Most satisfying: When they're making love,and he says "No man but me" .Most tense: when they go to see her mother & malcolm,or maybe when Richard tries to rape her at the fort. (NT) -- Boadicea, 11:05:01 04/03/05 Sun
    • I'm so glad you liked the "no man but me" scene. I was SO AFRAID of getting that wrong. I wanted him to say those words again and again, a sort of sacred sex scene where he purges Bethie of her past with his body and his words -- lovemaking in the purest sense. But I wasn't sure it would work in other people's minds. I was afraid the repetition might seem silly to some people. (NT) -- P.C., 20:17:53 04/07/05 Thu
  • Hmm...Most emotionally satisfying: It's a tie b/t when Nicholas kills the nasty stepbrother and the "No Man But Me" scene, which was incredible. The Most Tense: When the Indians are in the house and Nicholas is waiting for them to try and kill him. I LOVED seeing Alec and Jamie again. How could I not? (NT) -- Christa, 13:14:05 04/03/05 Sun
    • Glad you liked it too, Christa. And the scene in the cabin. I had forgotten about that. Lina, I enjoyed Richard getting shot, too, but I was afraid people would find it unheroic for a hero to shoot a man who was tied up. But that's how it came to me, so that's what I wrote. I'm so glad you both liked Alec and Jamie. I can tell you I was positively giddy at having them all in the same story. (NT) -- PC, 20:20:40 04/07/05 Thu
  • Most emotionally satisfying - the bastard getting shot! Followed closely by having Alec and Jaime intercept them at the hotel! Most tense: Nicholas waking up and finding himself tied to the bed. As for seeing the previous characters: are you kidding? I love that! It's why I like reading books with connected characters, it gives me a chance to visit them again... (NT) -- Lina, 03:27:10 04/04/05 Mon
  • (NT) -- Linda trying to end italicas*G*, 21:32:16 04/04/05 Mon
  • OK this is too much for me, tonight, I'll come back Thursday & finish..*G* (NT) -- , 21:34:50 04/04/05 Mon
    • I'm dying to hear, Linda. And Vic, too. What's your favorite scene? Have you told me? You know me. No memory. I need an upgrade -- more RAM. Thanks to everyone for this wonderful experience. It feels very indulgent to talk about *my* book for a zillion words. But this book was everything to me. So thanks from the bottom of my heart. (NT) -- Pamela, 20:23:17 04/07/05 Thu
      • Well PC, this whole book was too gripping to me to break it all down into "things", but I must say, the "No man but me" scene REALLLY got me, as well as when Nicholas apologizes to his mother. I was also rivited by the birth (I LOVE birth scenes in books!), and I was absolutely terrified when Bethie's stepbrother tried to rape her, AND, when Nicholas was at his execution (he was, wasn't he? Did I imagine that? Or wish it? Damn terminal CRAFT!). Wonderful, innnncredible work of art PC! (NT) -- Vic, 07:32:59 04/08/05 Fri
        • No, you didn't imagine it. LOL! Nicholas was the only man on the firing squad with a loaded weapon. He shoots Richard through the heart, and that's not enough for him. So he crosses over to where Richard is tied up and dying, rips the blindfold of his face, looks into his dying eyes and curses him to hell. And let me tell you -- that scene felt SO GOOD to write!!! (NT) -- PC, 13:41:35 04/08/05 Fri
          • Yaaay! Yaaay! I didn't imagine or wish it! That was one tense but satisfying moment! (NT) -- Vic, 18:00:23 04/08/05 Fri

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• Nicholas's Secret..... -- Candice, 08:10:34 04/03/05 Sun
  When Nicholas reveals his big secret, did you as the reader take a step back and view him in a different light? Did that absolve him of his past actions and sins and excuse his behavior? In what way did it change your view of him?
  

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  • Do you mean when Lyda slipped and fell,his bedding her sister and everybody else? I felt that he was terribly bitter,but it couldn't really be helped,he had been treated so horribly by Lyda.She basically used him,wanted him for a "trophy".He couldn't have known what would happen to her & the baby.I think,if anything,it just made it all the more amazing,that he could learn to love again after that. (NT) -- Boadicea, 10:43:42 04/03/05 Sun
  • I understood why he took revenge on Lydia the only way he could. She abused him, and he struck back with his only weapon, which was to refuse her what he openly gave to others. It was harsh and cruel, but what was he supposed to do? Just become Lyda's doting husband? No Way! It didn't change how I viewed him at all. It totally fit with how someone of Nicholas' pride and strength would have reacted after being forced into the situation and watching his friends burn to death. Lyda slipping on the ice could have happened before she caught him with the sister or whenever so he wasn't responsible for that. (NT) -- Christa, 13:00:19 04/03/05 Sun
  • I thought it totally right!! She was a selfish spoiled bitch & got just what she deserved!!! JMNSHO (NT) -- , 20:59:29 04/04/05 Mon
  • I did not view him differently at all. From the beginning I felt that Lyda was an awful woman. His shunning her and taunting her with her sister were deserved in my opinion and her slipping was not the same as if he had actually killed her. (NT) -- Danielle, 22:47:16 04/05/05 Tue
  • I think Candice was thinking of something else when she asked this question. I'm guessing she's wondering how you all felt when you realized that Nicholas had been raped, too. That's what Lyda did. She took a powerful man, abused him to the point of death, then took advantage of that weakness to rape him. I'm guessing that's what Candice is referring to because I know how she felt about it. She called to let me know. She was PISSED!!! She was really mad at me at that point, I believe. I'll let her explain that if she wants to. It's only Nicholas' over-developed sense of nobility that makes him feel culpable over her death. Lyda brought about her own demise. But here's something: I felt SORRY for her a bit. A spoiled rotten little bitch, she unexpectedly fell in LOVE with him in her own self-interested pathetic way. And she wasn't worthy of him and caused her own misery. So how did you all feel about the fact that Nicholas was raped? (NT) -- Pamela C. , 22:05:27 04/06/05 Wed
    • I should have been clearer in my response but that is what I was referring to in thinking Lyda was horrible. I think anyone being raped stirs strong emotions but for some reason it seems (to me anyway) more sad when it happens to a man because they are typically the stronger sex so it seems scarier or sadder that they were unable to control or escape a situation. (NT) -- Danielle, 22:10:59 04/06/05 Wed
      • Well said,Danielle! Like it's not just demeaning-it's an insult and emasculates them,somehow.How strange.I never thought on this too much,P.C.,but now you & Danielle got me thinking...Somehow,it is a blow to their very essence of being a man,while engaged in an act that is that very thing.I probably make no sense whatsoever ; ) (NT) -- Boadicea, 23:50:43 04/06/05 Wed
        • I think rape is demeaning for anyone, but for a powerful man to lose control like that... I really felt that Nicholas' trauma came more from this and from witnessing Josiah's and Eben's deaths than it did from his being burned himself. The humiliation was unbearable, and it made him do things (like have sex with the other women) that he wouldn't have done and set him on a downward spiral emotionally -- hating himself, etc. So the trick in writing this is to still have an Alpha Male. How can you emasculate an Alpha Male and still have an Alpha that readers will respect? I'm not sure I pulled that off for everyone. But the fact that he was absolutely helpless when it happened (recovering from his burns and fever).... Who knows? (NT) -- P.C., 05:31:25 04/07/05 Thu
          • I guess I was hoping that Nicholas would have proved his masculinit and Alpha-ness enough by the point where readers learn his secret that readers wouldn't lose respect for him or see him as an emasculated man. And it's through his own experience of being raped that he recognizes what has happened to Bethie, empathizes with her suffering and knows how to handle it. GOD, I'm so in love with him! (NT) -- Pamela C., 06:36:35 04/07/05 Thu
            • You did pull it off! Sorry,i didn't mean to sound like I thought of Nicholas as emasculated,quite the opposite! *G* It just got me thinking about men in general,i guess! (NT) -- Boadicea, 20:54:29 04/07/05 Thu
              • Oh, Boadicea, honey, I didn't take that as a criticism. I totally understood. It's my insecurities leaking through there, not anything you said. :-) (NT) -- PC, 15:41:29 04/08/05 Fri
      • Well said, Danielle. Cutting him up and burning him wasn't as hurtful, ultimately, as raping him and stealing a child from him. (NT) -- PC, 15:40:07 04/08/05 Fri

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• Alec & The Wedding.... -- Candice, 08:12:06 04/03/05 Sun
  I loved the scene where Alec stepped into the role of father of the bride and gave Bethie away. There were so many overlapping tones and messages in that scene. Tell me how you perceived it. Were you able to see that Bethie finally got the family that she'd always longed for?
  

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  • Vic here - One more thing.....Did anyone (besides me) feel cheated for Cassie that she wasn't able to witness the marriage of her beloved son's wedding? (forgot to add that one! LOL!) (NT) -- Vic, 09:12:04 04/03/05 Sun
    • Yes,it would have been nice for Cassie to be there,I felt a little bad that she wasn't. I loved that Alec gave her away,I thought the way they accepted her was just wonderful,that it showed where Nicholas got his compassion from. (NT) -- Boadicea, 10:39:25 04/03/05 Sun
      • I wish Cassie could have been there too, but they needed the wedding to happen asap so I understood it. The wedding was just a beautiful scene full of Bethie and Nicholas's fulfilled hopes and dreams. To me, it wasn't just about Bethie getting the family she always deserved, but about Nicholas getting the family he needed as well (Bethie and Isabelle). (NT) -- Christa, 12:57:03 04/03/05 Sun
  • I was disappointed that Cassie wasn't there also. One because if it were my son I would want to see him wed and two, because I wanted to see Cassie again. I thought it was very kind of Alec to walk her down the aisle and for me it reinforced what a caring man he was. I believe it did in some way make Bethie feel closer to having a family. (NT) -- Danielle, 13:53:13 04/04/05 Mon
  • Donno... are the actual ceremonies that important? (...coming from a person who got married in Vegas). Cassie got her family back together! (NT) -- Lina, 19:48:44 04/04/05 Mon
    • That's how I saw it, Lina. BUT I can definitely understand WHY readers who know Cassie would want her there. I understand completely why it left you feeling cheated, Vic. :-) (NT) -- P.c., 22:00:35 04/06/05 Wed
      • Yeah, as you know PC, I had a real problem with Cassie not being there from the get-go (I think personal feelings entered in here). I kept thinking if it were ME (and it wasn't - haha!), Id'a been on a horse with those men and no one coulda stopped me! And Bethie would have had the benefit of a "mother" to welcome her & show her love, as well as the "women bonding" thing about clothes and etiquitte. I dunno, Cassie was so special to me, and she'd suffered so because of Nicholas, I just wanted her there. What can I say - I'm a silly sentimental DORK & a worn out mom (of BOYS! Hah!) (NT) -- Vic, 07:03:41 04/08/05 Fri
        • You are NOT a dork, Vickie. I think what you felt is completely natural. If it were OUR son, we'd be there even if we had to walk naked the whole way. And what a sight it will be if I ever have to do that. LOL! (NT) -- PC, 15:38:23 04/08/05 Fri
  • I loved that he gave her away & it was symbolic that she NOW had a family!! But I also agree that it sucked that Cassie didn't get to be there!! (NT) -- Linda, 20:51:45 04/04/05 Mon
  • Christa is right. Cassie couldn't be there simply because of the time it would take to arrive. They were trying to fend off scandal and needed to get married as soon as possible. But I tried to make it special, and I kind of had in my mind that they'd do it again once they got to Virginia so that Cassie could be there. I also felt the more important thing to her was simply having her son back from the dead again, so I put the force of the emotion into that scene and let the wedding be another step along the way. I let the wedding close a few of Bethie's story lines -- her need for a REAL father figure and a family. I bawled my eyes out when I wrote this scene. Alec was just magnifiscent. He knew what she needed, and he was there for Bethie even before she knew she needed him. It was wonderful to have his voice in my head again. I loved having my three heroes together. (NT) -- P.C., 21:58:28 04/06/05 Wed

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• Etiquette..... -- Vic, 08:27:49 04/03/05 Sun
  How did you feel about the importance the men (including Nicholas) placed on how Bethie should look and act when introduced to "society". Did you feel it was for her protection or that they would have been embarassed of her? Did you feel that maybe Nicholas should have simply said, "this is my Bethie, I love her and I'm proud of her", instead of placing so much emphasis on how she "appeared"?
  

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  • I felt that it was for her protection,but that in a way,it was also for peace of mind,b/c Nicholas sure would have taken violent exception to anyone insulting her *G* It would have been nice for Nicholas to say "take her as she is,I love her",etc.,but I feel that he was maybe saving Bethie from embarassing herself in public,sparing her feelings maybe. (NT) -- Boadicea, 10:06:55 04/03/05 Sun
  • It was for protection, but also I think because he knew she had had so little beauty in her life and to give her beautiful things was an expression of his love. Also, she already felt inferior in some ways to his family and society so to have her appear in less than appropriate clothing would not have helped her self esteem at all. Also, they were presenting her as a member of their family, and to not provide her with the same level fo treatment, clothes, whatever would have been an insult to her, and it would have looked strange to everyone else, like maybe they didn't accept her into the family. (NT) -- Christa, 12:35:25 04/03/05 Sun
  • I also just think, having read the other books and knowing the other men in Nicholas' family, I think it is very clear both to the reader and to Bethie that society is NOT important to these men, They play by its rules, when they have to, but both also married women outside convention. The way they introduced her was definitely to both protect her and show that she was a part of their family and afforded the respect that entailed. (NT) -- Ana, 15:45:15 04/03/05 Sun
  • I don't think it was so much for being embarassed, that the men did what they did. Nor do I think they were off the "accept her for who she is" track. I just think Bethie had never been to a formal dinner, or any event, were she'd need manners. Wouldn't you feels uncomfortable going to a black-tie affair and not knowing basic common coutesies or which fork to use, etc? I think the tips were for her own comfort!! (NT) -- Lina, 02:43:46 04/04/05 Mon
    • Yeah, yeah, you're all right & I knew the reasons & thought it was really so kind of the men to consider this. But I guess I just felt sorry for her - it seemed humiliating & I sort of saw it as them being ashamed of her. But I do "get" the whole purpose for the storyline (NT) -- Vic, 07:38:22 04/04/05 Mon
  • Okay, being from the south I can understand the etiquette lessons. I think that the men did do this because they did not want Bethie to feel shunned. I believe that had it just been close friends they might not have been concerned, but since it was a "come out" dinner and there would be lesser acquaintances they did not want her to be put in a situation where she would feel any more uncomfortable. (NT) -- Danielle, 13:57:36 04/04/05 Mon
  • Here is where I felt that due to page limits Pamela had to cut short getting the idea across & it didn't seem to matter cause we all got it, but I'd have liked to "read/see" a little more detail at the end of the book where things were wrapped up.. But I totally agree it was to protect her.. I also think that at this time it would have been good to point out to her that both his Mother & Jamie's wife weren't what would have been considered the CREAM of soceity in say England..*G* It would have gone a LONG way to ease her fears.. I remember I kept thinking why doesn't he explain about his Dad being an indentured servant when he came to America etc.. But I still loved it!! (NT) -- , 20:38:09 04/04/05 Mon
    • Lin, you hit the nail on the head girlfriend. Even tho RTF is an incredible book as it is - the publishers cut a great deal of the "CREAM out of it. I can tell you, having read the original manuscript that I was as heartbroken as the author about what they did. This book, as Pamela wrote it is even more incredible and powerful than what y'all read. Still a wonderful book, but so sad to cut the heart out of an author & her story (NT) -- Vic, 18:20:26 04/05/05 Tue
  • I had no idea when I wrote this scene that it could be perceived in any way other than Nicholas trying to help Bethie feel more at home. He couldn't care less what people think, but he knows she feels self-conscious. It's also in a way part of his coming back to himself -- he uses his money (the real stuff, not pelts) to spoil her a bit. He's gradually becoming himself again and that means re-entering the world he left. He's helping her make that transition with him. I was in a bit of trouble by the time I got to this point because I had a LOT of story left to go and not much space. I was in touch with the publisher the entire time doing character counts with them to make certain I didn't have to cut it the way that I had to cut CARNAL GIFT. As a result, stuff got pared down to bare essentials in some scenes so that I could indulge the emotion in other scenes (his homecoming, for example). In the end, nothing was cut from this book. (cont'd) (NT) -- P.C., 21:17:31 04/06/05 Wed
    • If I'd had my way, I would have had no page limitations and there would be a bit more in these scenes. I wanted Jamie to tell Bethie about Brighid -- and he does, but in a very truncated way when he gives her the golden cross of St. Brighid at her wedding and tells her never to be ashamed of her roots. That litle tidbit, as small as it is, made me BAWL. Jamie was trying to convey so much in that gesture; he understood how Bethie felt perhaps better than anyone because of his own experience with Brighid. I wrote a 70-page last chapter. But those 70 pages were writer neurosis and not good writing. I just couldn't bear to say farewell. I'd have written 700 more pages if I could have gotten away with it. In those 70 pages we got to visit briefly with each couple from the trilogy as they settle down for the night (and have sex). Then it ended with Takotah thinking it was OK for her to die now that Nicholas was home and settled. Then she thinks of Emma Rose... (NT) -- P.C., getting teary... GAWD, I'm a sap!!!!!, 21:32:11 04/06/05 Wed
      • Sorry for these long answers! There IS a half-finished epilogue that, if I think I can handle it, I plan to finish and share with you all. I won't tell you what happens. I'm not sure if I can open up to Bethie and Nicholas again without spending another six weeks crying over them. Plus I have a gazillion deadlines. We'll see. (NT) -- P.C., 21:34:01 04/06/05 Wed
  • On this I felt that he wanted to dress her up because he thought she was beautiful and deserved to have a nice dress. I think he did it because he wanted her to enjoy dressing up. I didn't get the impression at all that he was embarrassed of her at all. And on the off-topic. I was glad to see that he didn't cut his hair! (NT) -- xina, 14:51:49 04/07/05 Thu
    • Couldn't agree with you more about his hair Xina! (I LOVE long-haired babes!). And I KNOW y'all are right about this whole thing with Bethie - but I just couldn't help but feel sorry for her, walking into the situation and maybe feeling so unacceptable in Nicholas's world. She was such a sweet, darling person and I really wanted her to be "gently" brought into this part of her new world gently by the other women - I just felt so sorry for her having to feel like such a "country bumpkin". I think I'm not expressing my feelings well on this - dang! (NT) -- Vic, 06:54:20 04/08/05 Fri
      • I think you're doing just fine, Vic. It was a rather rushed intro to society, and she was frightened. She absolutely felt like a bumpkin. But I tried to balance that by showing that Nicholas and Alec and Jamie were also fiercely protective of her to the point of raising a ruckus, if needed. It would probably have been much niceer for Bethie if Cassie and especially Bríghid, who herself went through that experience, could have been there with her. I totally understand what you're saying. (NT) -- PC, 15:35:13 04/08/05 Fri

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• Bethie's Family.... -- Lina, 08:08:04 04/03/05 Sun
  There’s no question about the venom in the snake, which Bethie’s stepfather was. Do you think her mother was a villain? Was she just as terrible for siding with her new husband and blaming Bethie? Or was she just a woman in position where she couldn’t have done anything differently, as far as protecting Bethie
  

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  • I disliked her mother A LOT when we first learn of the abuse,I felt she could have,should have,sided with her daughter,her own flesh and blood,over her new husband.But when i really hated her was at the end,when she could have left him,went with bethie and nicholas and started over with her daughter,and she didn't. (NT) -- Boadicea, 10:47:19 04/03/05 Sun
  • I also disliked her mother A LOT. I know she was abused herself and worn down by it over the years. She was bitter because Bethie was not a boy, which started my immense dislike of her. She could have left in the end, but I think she had given up on life. Bethie was a survivor, and her mother was a quitter who didn't protect her child. Maybe she couldn't have done anything different when Bethie was a child, but to be so angry, cold and bitter toward her at the end, when she could have escaped the situation, I just hated that about her. In the end I just felt sorry for her. (NT) -- Christa, 12:54:31 04/03/05 Sun
    • Yet another UNredeemable character IMHO. I know I'm not considering the battered woman syndrome here (& I do believe in the syndrome) - BUT, to not protect one's child from preditors is reprehensible in any circumstances or time period. Bethie would have fought to her death to protect her child. The mother was an unforgivable piece of scourge & I could find no sympathy for her or her actions (NT) -- Vic, 16:07:16 04/04/05 Mon
      • It's precisely that "battered woman syndrome" I was thinking of as possibly her poor excuse for an excuse. But then again ... I've never been a mother, and my own mum was most non-traditional, but I figure there's some sort of a "Thou shalt try and save thy child, at any cost" that is ingrained into women the moment they become pregnant, that should have made her treat Bethie differently... I'm glad I'm not the only one who disliked her. (NT) -- Lina, 19:32:07 04/04/05 Mon
  • Her mother was a BITCH & she was selfish & didn't give a darn about Bethie!! She was just looking out for her & I was SO GLAD she didn't go with Bethie & Nicholas.. She deserved just what she got! And THANK YOU Pamela for killing her off, before she got to benefit from Bethie's good luck!!*EG* (NT) -- Linda, 21:10:35 04/04/05 Mon
    • You're so welcome, Linda! There's no way she was getting an HEA. While I sympathize with battered women who fail their children, there's no excuse for allowing your own child to be abused. In this case, there was something ugly about her betrayal of her daughter that set her in an even worse category. In some ways, I felt this was the most painful moment for Bethie, but it was one she had to face. And thank goodness she had Nicholas with her. I don't know if anyone picked up on it, but Malcolm, her stepfather, in truth was like his son. He had the hots for Bethie but turned it into violence. Maybe that was all just in my head. I knew these characters so well that I had all kinds of things happening that didn't go in the book. Once I was discussing a scene with my agent and she said, "Honey, that's not in the book. It's just in your head." ROFL! (NT) -- Pamela C. , 19:52:32 04/07/05 Thu
      • "Syndrome" or not, it's one thing to be a woman battered and staying in the situation - that is a fact and DOES happen, HOWEVER, when it goes further & children become the victims, NO syndrome in the world is excuse enough. I am a FIERCE mother and unforgiving when it comes to battered children & the lack of protection by the people who are CHARGED to protect them! That woman was SCOURGE! (ok, I'll go away now...) (NT) -- Vic, 07:16:39 04/08/05 Fri
        • Don't go away, Vic! *g* I agree completely. No excuses for Bethie's mother at all. Anyone hurts my kids and they'd better run fast and run hard, because they're going to have to deal with me. I'd have knocked Malcolm on the head with a rock while he slept or shot him with his own gun (Richard, too), if it had been me. (NT) -- Pamela C., 13:37:03 04/08/05 Fri
  • I don't know about initially because we did not meet her mother then. When we were introduced to her I thought she was a terrible witch. Especially given that she had the opportunity to leave with Bethie and Nicholas and chose to stay instead. (NT) -- Danielle, 22:49:03 04/05/05 Tue
    • She was a woman dominated by bitterness and fear. That's how I saw her. Her daughter was so much stronger than she was and had a heart filled with love. That's what saved Bethie while her mother sank. (NT) -- PC, 19:54:20 04/07/05 Thu

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• Reunion... -- Candice, 08:06:32 04/03/05 Sun
  Was Alec justified in his reaction and anger toward Nicholas when they were reunited? If so, why?
  

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  • Somewhat,b/c it caused Cassie such pain,and he didn't want that at all.It also may have made him feel helpless,not beiong able to help Nicholas b/c he wouldn't let them. (NT) -- Boadicea, 10:49:25 04/03/05 Sun
    • Very true, Boadicea. He did feel helpless -- his wife in so much pain because her son was missing and his son having suffered horrible torture and now off on his own enduring God knows what. Alec couldn't do a thing for either of them. Plus, of course, he loves Nicholas, too. We all remember when Nicholas was born, right? (NT) -- PC, 19:58:47 04/07/05 Thu
  • Yes, I think so. Knowing the pain the family went through after Nicholas left, knowing that he hadn't given them the chance to help him, and Nicholas totally ignoring their feelings for so long I think gave him the right to be angry. Nicholas had his right to be angry as well because of what happened to him. But what I liked about it was Alec was angry, but then he was over it and on to loving Nicholas and bringing Bethie and Isabelle into the family. He didn't dwell on it, just got his feelings out in the open and then moved on. (NT) -- Christa, 13:03:54 04/03/05 Sun
  • Of course he was justified, but I thought it was tempered well with his love for Nicholas. (NT) -- Linda, 21:14:51 04/04/05 Mon
  • When I wrote that scene, I really tried to be in Alec and Cassie's relationship again. How could Alec react to the torment his wife was going through for six years? He was pissed! But he also felt terrible for Nicholas. And, like a man, he felt horrid that he hadn't been able to help his own flesh and blood. I felt that Alec and Nicholas had a pretty deep relationship that included its share of arguing -- eldest son and father, both strong and hard-headed. Oh, yum. I adore them! Do other authors lust over their own characters like this? (NT) -- PC, 19:56:46 04/07/05 Thu
    • 'Course they do,P.C.! Hasn't Karen Marie said she'd run off with Adam if given the chance? LOL ! Just another measure of your talent,and the "real" of Nicholas! (NT) -- Boadicea, 20:58:28 04/07/05 Thu
      • Yep, fierce anger and love go hand in hand with love sometimes. Alec had every right to feel angry with Nicholas. He'd hurt his family in the worst way & who wouldn't want to thrash his ass! On the other hand, no matter WHAT a child does, a parent never stops loving them. There was a very realistic mixture of powerful love and anger in that scene, and it was done perfectly. I know these feelings SO WELL.....*G* (NT) -- Vic, 07:24:01 04/08/05 Fri

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• Of Bed & "Bondage"..... :- ) -- Candice, 08:52:52 04/03/05 Sun
  When Nicholas lets Bethie tie him up and explore his body at her leisure, were you able to understand the significance of that scene?
  

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  • I took it as the ultimate expression of his love & trust for Bethie.The last time a woman did that to him,he endured the worst pain in his life,which lead to his turning his back on his family,eventually.In doing this,he not only puts himself in her hands,but gives her peace of mind at the same time,he just knew it was the only way she'd ever feel comfortable & be able to express what she really wanted. (NT) -- Boadicea, 10:00:41 04/03/05 Sun
    • I like how you said this. It totally explains it. (NT) -- Christa, 12:30:22 04/03/05 Sun
      • What Bo said! (NT) -- , 16:09:06 04/03/05 Sun
  • It definitely was a turning point for both of them. They got to face their demons together, in a profoundly beautiful way! (NT) -- Lina, 02:39:08 04/04/05 Mon
    • Yep, all the above, and boy was that HOT & bothersome or what?! WooHoo - great job PC! (NT) -- Vic, 07:31:14 04/04/05 Mon
      • BTW Vic - I love the title to this question! *LOL* it souds like the title of an Emma Holly book. (NT) -- Lina, 19:51:35 04/04/05 Mon
  • Yes, I was very touched by Nicholas doing that. Everyone else again has expressed what I felt about this part of the story. (NT) -- Danielle, 13:38:31 04/04/05 Mon
    • Again you all said it all but have I lost it or did he just hang on to the headboard & pretend to be tied up?? It's been a couple of weeks but I don't remember her tying him up except the first night. (NT) -- Linda, 20:28:09 04/04/05 Mon
      • I theink he just hung on and pretended to be tied up. Okay, just checked the book and he did just hang on to the bed posts and told her he wouldn't let go until she said he could. (NT) -- Danielle, 10:56:16 04/05/05 Tue
        • That's right, Danielle. He grabbed the bed posts and told her he wouldn't let go until she said he could. He knew what it felt like to have control of one's body taken away, so he gave her complete control in order to take away the fear. In doing so, he had to face his own fear. That's how Lyda violated him -- tying him down, riding him. He was able to do that because of how much he cared for Bethie. Frankly, I was afraid that the somewhat unconventional sex scenes in this story would irritate people. Starting with oral sex? Having regular sex last? But again it was a case of having to be true to the characters. I felt that his desire to be inside her -- a desire that goes unfulfilled for a long time as a sacrifice he willingly makes for her -- was super-sexy. But what do I know? LOL! (NT) -- P.C., 21:10:21 04/06/05 Wed
          • I'm not sure why starting with oral sex would surprise anyone anymore, Pamela. It seems to me that oral sex scenes were once rather shocking in romance, but now they've become almost expected. I like the way you did it, though; it felt true to the characters and not just sex for the sake of sex, if you know what I mean. (Not that I have any objection to sex for sex's sake *g*.) In my opinion, though, the best love scenes are the ones that contribute to character development, and yours certainly do that! (NT) -- Ellen F., 10:29:22 04/07/05 Thu
            • Agree with you there...on Pamela's love scenes. They are never just thrown in for the sake of being there. They belong there. (and they are the best....) As for being tied up. I really loved how she apologized to him, toward the end, for tying him up. And his reaction..."you didn't know." What a guy! (NT) -- xina, 14:47:47 04/07/05 Thu
              • I'm glad that touched you, Xina. It was important for me that readers see that Bethie really *understood* what he'd been through and what he'd done for her and what she'd inadvertently done to him. And his forgiveness -- given without asking -- is very touching to me. (NT) -- Pamela C., 06:42:06 04/08/05 Fri
              • Here-Here! On those love/sex scenes! Always perfectly timed, perfectly placed and perfectly HOT! MmmMm! (NT) -- Vic, 06:45:06 04/08/05 Fri

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• Toward the end of the novel...... -- Lina, 07:54:15 04/03/05 Sun
  In a beautiful and heart-wrenching scene, Nicholas apologizes to his mother for leaving and causing so much sadness to his family.
  
  Do you think he had been selfish in leaving them for so long and without them knowing if he was dear or alive?
  
  And how did you feel about the way he apologized to his mother – on his knees
  

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  • I thought the WAY he apologized to her was great,really humble,like he knew how much hurt he had caused.I don't think he was selfish,he was so filled with hurt & self-loathing,there just wasn't any room for him to think about anything else. (NT) -- Boadicea, 10:58:55 04/03/05 Sun
  • It was very sincere the way he apologized to her. He was showing her that he understood what he'd done and how very, very sorry he was. Maybe he was selfish because they loved him even though he couldn't handle it at the time. Perhaps he could have sent them notice that he was okay. But we all could handle the tough times in life better. What was important was that he did come back, he realized his mistakes, and he learned to love and appreciate everyone and everything on a whole new level. (NT) -- Christa, 13:09:29 04/03/05 Sun
    • I think he totally honored his mother in his actions, and I thought more of him as a man for it. She deserved to be honored in this manner and he did right by her. My heart cracked with love and pride for both of them. VERY well done by the mother of two boys! ;- ) (NT) -- Vic, 16:21:41 04/04/05 Mon
      • Ah, Vic, thanks! I, too, felt pride in what Nicholas did and in the man Cassie raised him to be. In a way she was with him the entire time he was gone -- his parents' strength and goodness. To me, that scene was the climax of the book. (NT) -- PC, 21:10:18 04/07/05 Thu
  • I understood his reason for leaving them & think he really couldn't have gone on as he was in that life until he purged the past... This he could never have done while with his family.. His honoring his mother was totally right!! He did good. (NT) -- Linda, 21:27:10 04/04/05 Mon
  • For Nicholas, this story is really about coming home. He's able to do that through the healing love of one woman. But at the beginning he felt he had no choice but to leave. His decision to leave was actually a passive form of committing suicide. A part of him really wanted to die. Bethie brings him back to life, enabling him to come home. As he comes back to himself, he realizes just what his leaving must have done to those he loves and his going down on his knees is his sincere, deep apology to his mother. That scene was in my mind from the moment I typed the first words on the page, and I didn't let myself write it until I reached it because I wanted all of the emotional power to be right there in that moment when he drops to his knees and his mother takes him in her arms and forgives him. In some ways, it's my favorite scene in the story because everything one needs to know about Nicholas is in that scene. And Cassie has the wonderful role of welcoming Bethie. (cont'd) (NT) -- PC, 20:12:36 04/07/05 Thu
    • Bethie completes her journey to having a real family in that scene also. OMG! I cried so hard! I know I must seem very silly to you all, but to me Nicholas' getting on his knees was such a noble gesture. I loved having the entire family there for just a scene, though I wish I'd been able to include Bríghid more. And I loved Emma Rose's debut. I loved how Alec treats her, how besotted he is with his late-life child. Anyway, I could go on forever. This is how I thought of the scene, at least. (NT) -- PC, 20:15:14 04/07/05 Thu

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• Blessed Honored Lucky Enough -- Kally, 10:23:35 04/04/05 Mon
  I have been blessed, honored and alucky enough to see this entire series through different stages. I was only minorly around for SWEET RELEASE, but CG and RTF I have seen through multiple phases. What I have always been and truly believe I will always be astounded at is Pam's magical gift to "see" how it was for the characters she shares with us. They are not imagined. They exist. I have no doubt in my being that they did not live and she sees it and through her gift of voice, shares with us that don't. What I'll never understand is if she can see it, why doesn't she open a porthole so I can borrow Jamie just for a bit!
  

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  • Thanks so much, Kally. You've been so supportive of me, such a source of encouragement. I'm very grateful to you for your friendship and your absolutely hysterical ongoing commentary. I should save the files and publish them online or something. (((HUGS))) (NT) -- Pamela, 20:24:41 04/07/05 Thu

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• Conflict..... -- Candice, 07:56:14 04/03/05 Sun
  How did all the fight scenes work for you in a romance novel?
  

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  • They were great,b/c it helped make the story,added a suspense to it,made it really well-rounded.It gave us a little something extra en route to the HEA. (NT) -- Boadicea, 10:57:02 04/03/05 Sun
  • It made it realistic to me. It was a hard time with lots of bad stuff happening and it effected everyone so we needed to see some of that to get a feel for the time period and for what the h/h were up against in order to reach their happiness. (NT) -- Christa, 13:06:57 04/03/05 Sun
  • GRRRRREAT! I love a novel with a LOT of action, suspense, etc... They give the story sustinance.... I know, I know - many will disagree with me, and I do so LOVE romace novels, but there is a point for me when they can get to mushy, and I need some other ingredients to make the story work for me.... (NT) -- Lina, 03:22:04 04/04/05 Mon
  • They were needed & very well done. I'm not a big fan of fight scenes but in this type of book you have to have them & Pamela did them good!!*G* (NT) -- Linda, 21:23:43 04/04/05 Mon
  • I agree with the ladies on this again. (NT) -- Danielle, 22:53:30 04/05/05 Tue
  • Thanks! My editor told me she doesn't usually like action scenes in romance novels and that she usually skips over them. She said she found herself reading every word. It made me happy, because this was the first time I've written that much action. It was a new challenge for me as a writer. (NT) -- P.C., 20:06:57 04/07/05 Thu

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• Factual Writing -- Candice, 08:02:12 04/03/05 Sun
  There is talk about historical novels giving a "history lesson" in the storytelling. Pamela's knowledge of the time period is obvious and her research incredibly thorough. Do you feel that she was able to insert the "feel" and "facts" of the time without pulling the reader from the story itself? And, the description of Fort Pitt was so vivid and real. Were you able to picture it in your mind?
  

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  • GREAT QUESTION!!! One of the reasons RTF is such an incredible book to me is that it was NEVER a history lesson,i never had to skip ahead to get to a "better " part,never felt like I was pulled out of the story at all.P.C. put me right there with Bethie & Nicholas,I could totally "see" Fort Pitt & all its goings-on through their eyes.She is amazingly talented,to be able to do that.I never felt like i was suddenly reading a different book than I had started. (NT) -- Boadicea, 10:54:04 04/03/05 Sun
  • She did an awesome job at giving the details without overwhelming the reader. You have to have the background or it won't seem realistic, but you still want to focus on the characters and she did an amazing job. (NT) -- Christa, 13:05:29 04/03/05 Sun
  • I LOVE the State of PA, from Pittsburg to Philly! I love the history and the significance of every building and every street here. Having it all entwined into a beautiful novel, made me feel all warm and fuzzy in a way. I wish I could take you all on a tour of Philly and show you some spots... like the Ben Franklin house on Chestnut... (NT) -- Lina, 02:59:00 04/04/05 Mon
    • Oh, that's my heart's desire Lina! I would LOVE to visit the colonies and our beloved American history. Anyway, I think Pamela's taken a few "hits" about her historical accuracy & descriptions but I think that's because there's so darn much "fluff" in todays romance novels that people aren't used to the "facts". I believe Pamela did an above excellent job of presenting history and entertwining it into a magnificant love story. I've always loved and read historical fiction and learned so much. What I find funny about the criticism is that books written about Scottish history and for example the bloody battle of Culloden seems perfectly acceptable to readers, yet if it's American history it seems unacceptable. Look at the blood and gore in Marsha Canham's Scottish series - acceptable and praised. I wonder why there's a difference? (NT) -- Vic, 16:15:52 04/04/05 Mon
      • Wait... did she take hits for mixing fiction with fact, or because she used historical events in the book at all? If the answer is the former ... than don't these people understand fiction? I mean I've read like 3 different books on Gettysburg battle, where the authors took some basic facts and the historical figures, but then created their own turn of events --- and these books actually won awards! In fact one of them was recently made into a movie... Is it not a briliant idea to the same with romance??? (NT) -- Lina, 19:39:05 04/04/05 Mon
        • Oh no Lina that's not what I meant. I don't think she took any hits for mixing fact & fiction, but her presentation of some brutal truths in American history. It just seems to me that other the brutality of Vikings, the English with the Scots and Irish, etc., seems to be more "accepted" in some of our romance books, yet putting out the "grit" in American history somehow gets viewed as UNacceptable. I guess I just think maybe there's a line between "fluff" and "epic" and those who are into the fluff just can't handle a darn good epic - grit and all. Yep, I think that's what I meant. *g* (NT) -- Vic, 18:16:21 04/05/05 Tue
          • I think you're right, Vic. One of the negative comments the book has gotten was that there was too much history and that the "grit" just goes too far for a romance novel. One person wrote that this is not what she's looking for in a romance. I think some readers just want something lighter than this. But I love the history. I love writing about people who aren't necessarily rich or of noble birth. I love exploring the margins of history. I think there's so much passion there. And if some people don't like it, well, they have a zillion other books they can read. But I have to write what is in me to write. And I liked reading epics, so I want to write them if I am capable of doing so. (NT) -- Pamela C. , 20:02:48 04/07/05 Thu
  • I love history in my novels & think that Pamela did a WONDERFUL job of blending it into the story!! (NT) -- Linda, 21:18:17 04/04/05 Mon
  • I was able to picture many of the scenes in my mind because of her knowledge and writing. I personally like history in my romance (that is why I prefer the historical genre) and I do not think that Pamela pulled us from the story to give is the detail. On the contrary, I think that she wrote it as part of the story and it fit seamlessly. (NT) -- Danielle, 22:52:24 04/05/05 Tue
    • Thank you all for your wonderful words about this. The history is so fascinating to me and I really want to put it in the story in a real way so that you can feel transported to that time. That's what I want from a book, and that's what I'm trying to give to you all. It means the WORLD to me (you have no idea) to know that this story touched you and that the history was a part of what made it work for you. (NT) -- Pamela C. , 20:04:57 04/07/05 Thu

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• Bethie -- Candice & Lina, 08:56:06 04/03/05 Sun
  So many novels today feature hard-edged heroines and I thought it was refreshing to have a heroine with quiet strength, determination and perseverance for a change. It seemed never to give way, even when she was consumed with terror. She was so real to me--with real fears and vulnerabilities. Did you ever view her way of handling things as being weak?
  
  And...
  
  Realistically, what would you have done, if you were a single woman, living alone, and a dirty, wounded, dangerous and armed man dragged himself to your doorstep and demanded your help?
  
  How DID you feel about Bethie in the beginning & end?
  

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  • It was really different to me to read about a pregnant heroine,for one.I honestly can't recall ever doing so,but found,to my surprise,that it made me respect Bethie even more than I would have,had she not been pregnant.I never thought she was weak,I admired her just for even getting up every morning and doing all that hard work.A very gutsy lady,IMNSHO. I probably would've shot first,ask questions later,in her situation.Bethie just grew on me more as the story went on,and in the end,I viewed her as a remarkable woman-she'd been hurt badly herself,yet she had all this love & caring for Nicholas,she definitely earned my respect,early in the book. (NT) -- Boadicea, 09:49:34 04/03/05 Sun
    • Honestly, I dno't normally like heroines who are pregnant at the beginning of the book but for this story it really worked for me. I think PC did a great job of working the time line. They couldn't have sex because she was pregnant or recovering but that didn't matter because they weren't ready at that point. Her being pregnant gave them the time they needed to get to know each other. (NT) -- , 16:00:11 04/03/05 Sun
  • I really respected Bethie for a number of reasons. First, she was forced to marry her husband, she followed him where he wanted to go, and then he left her to care for everything on her own. And she did it all to the best of her ability. Remembering how I felt at almost 9 months prego, I think I would have shot first also if a strange man came to my door. I just loved her from the beginning. She was never, never weak to me. (NT) -- Christa, 12:24:04 04/03/05 Sun
    • To echo what B & Christa said, I would have shot first. Being 5 months pregnant when I read the book, I never saw her as weak, especially when she is introduced to us as someone who has taken on the duties of a man -- in the wilderness -- being 9 months pregnant! I admired her quiet strength, and I loved the resolve she showed throughout the book, despite her circumstances. (NT) -- Ana, 15:36:06 04/03/05 Sun
  • I like the term quiet strength, I think that describes her wonderfully. Basically, she was doing what she was doing to survive. I do think she was a bit ignorant in thinking she would be able to be out there and deliver her baby herself and still do everything else, but A) she was young and didn't have a great mother figure and B) she had no other choice! She was doing what she could to survive. As for the shoot first option, she didnt' have her rifle handy and I think if she did, she would have shot first because she would do what she needs to survive for her and her child. (NT) -- , 15:57:43 04/03/05 Sun
  • I thought it was very realistic... She really had no choice by the time her husband died she was too far along to go anywhere & with all the indians around she'd probably not have made it anyway.. I loved her & think Pamela did a wonderful job of making her beliveable.. When I'd think geez I wonder, poof she had Bethie thinking the answer or question & listing her options. Great heroine!! (NT) -- £inda, 00:03:30 04/04/05 Mon
  • To echo some of you... I usually have a problem with pregnant heroines, unless the child is the hero's! It's probably just me, but there's just something un-holly about a man lusting after a pregnant woman, or being aroused by her breasts when she's nursing, again ... unless they're married! However, in this book it was OK, because there were too many other emotions and issues overriding lust in the beginning... What I liked most about Bethie (actually the way PC created her), is that she was a very strong woman, without having feminist notions. Maybe it was because she was just resigned to her fate/situation, but I like to think it was her sense of survival that made her who she was. I'm all for girl power, but I cannot stand ultra-feminists. I think actions speak louder than words, and Bethie was a perfect example of a rock of a woman, with all of her vulnerabilities and naïveté. (NT) -- Lina, 03:43:29 04/04/05 Mon
    • About the pregnant thing - I thought it very touching and even appealing in that I bet there were many frontier women who were left in that situation for many reasons, plus, I think there are many women even today who might identify with being "singularly" pregnant and able to identify with the "knight in shining armor" concept of this. I thought it very romantic and absolutely LOVED that Nicholas had compassion for Bethie and eventually thought of the baby as "his". Very romantic to me. (NT) -- Vic, 07:19:01 04/04/05 Mon
      • And regarding Bethie - I think she's one of my favorite heroines and I never once thought of her as weak. I loved her quiet strength. As to what I would do in the above mentioned situation - who knows? I'm a HUGH chicken liver & would have had a panic attack & folded!!!! And it wouldn't have been a Nicholas type & I would have been gruesomely killed by an uglier than sin psychopath! (NT) -- Vic, 07:24:14 04/04/05 Mon
  • I think Bethie is probably one of my favorite heroines. I don't think she was weak at all, in fact I think she was very strong. She had dealt with and survived so much by the time we were introduced to her and she was still going strong and surviving on her own. I would have at least done what Bethie did to Nicholas if a wounded man had showed up on my doorstep. My great, great grandmother was actually in a similar situation, she spit tobacco juice in the mans eye and knocked him out with a cast iron skillet. (NT) -- Danielle, 13:33:56 04/04/05 Mon
    • I wanted to add that for me Bethie was more realistic than typical romance heroines and I was able to relate on a more personal level to being a pregnant mother alone. I also related to Nicholas more. I think because my husband came along when Elise was 6 weeks old and took us all on. So for me this particular couple struck a personal note and have stayed with me more than most h/h couples that I read about. (NT) -- Danielle, 18:52:05 04/04/05 Mon
  • I'm so glad you all liked Bethie!!! As Vic can confirm, I tried to write the book without Bethie being pregnant and couldn't do it. I had written three chapters, and I started over. Bethie "came to me" -- that's what my characters do; weird, I know -- as a pregnant woman alone. But I had read on this board how many of you don't like pregnant heroines, so I tried to write her as just a woman alone. And I couldn't! I decided I had to be true to the character, so suddenly she was eight months pregnant. I cherish her as a character. I love her so much. And I was afraid that because she's very feminine people would find her weak. Kick-butt heroines are all the rage these days, and here she was pregnant and vulnerable. (NT) -- Pamela C. , 20:55:14 04/06/05 Wed
    • (Continued) .... I saw the same things in her that you all seem to have seen -- a quiet, feminine strength, resilience, a solid survivor quailty. She does what she has to do, and she doesn't feel sorry for herself. I think there was one poster on Amazon who said Bethie wasn't worthy of Nicholas (I think she just wants him for herself), but I really felt Bethie had all the softness and vulnerablity that Nicholas desperately needed to become whole again. It was precisely her vulnerability -- the fact that she was pregnant and alone and relatively helpless against fierce forces at play on the frontier -- that cut through the pain in his heart and enabled him to FEEL again. As soon as he started to feel compassion for her, the steel wall that had encased all of his feelings began to crumble. I love her. (NT) -- P.C., 21:00:10 04/06/05 Wed
      • I like pregnant heroines just fine *g*, but I have to confess there were times when I was reading the book that I stressed more about what was going to happen to the baby than to the hero and heroine... probably mostly due to my current circumstances:-). But baies (and sadly, the death of babies) were even more a part of life in the past than they are now, so I thought Bethie's pregnancy added a touch of verisimilitude to the story. I've read wayyy too many historicals where the widowed heroine was actually a virgin, which really isn't very likely! (NT) -- Ellen Fisher, 10:19:21 04/07/05 Thu
        • *Sigh* Not baies, babies. I'm typing one-handed as I feed my own baby, sorry:-). (NT) -- Ellen F., 10:22:10 04/07/05 Thu
  • Hi everyone. I'm a newbie here and would love to discuss Pamela's book. I also get tired of the historical heroine that can "do everything" and on the other hand I don't care for the heroine that is helpless. Bethie was believably trying to do the best she could. I really marveled at how she could chop wood being pregnant! But she gave it a try because she had to. I adored her. (Ladies...this wallpaper is lovely but really distracting. :) ) (NT) -- xina, 14:30:40 04/07/05 Thu
    • XINA!!!!! Did you see my post welcoming you to the main board and asking everyone to keep their eyes peeled for you? They're already welcoming you there. But it's SO GREAT to see you here! And thank for your kind words. (NT) -- Pamela, 17:14:11 04/07/05 Thu
      • Pamela! No I didn't, but I should go there now. I just came straight here. (NT) -- xina, 18:11:57 04/07/05 Thu
  • I kept trying to put myself in her shoes...being pregnant during those dangerous times...living alone, trying to find food. Bethie had been through some hard times in her life and she learned how to survive at all costs. (NT) -- xina, 14:41:30 04/07/05 Thu
    • HELLO XINA! We usually do our "welcoming" at the main board but since ya showed up here, this is where we'll start. Thank you so much for coming to our book discussion and I do hope you'll join us at the main board soon - we'd LOVE to have you. I think you'll find lots of fun and wonderful women at RBL that you can identify with. Once again - Welcome (NT) -- Vic, 17:28:08 04/07/05 Thu
      • Hi Vic...Thanks so much. I've been meaning to get here for so long since Pamela thought I'd like it here. It seems like a fun place. Great discussion here too. (NT) -- xina, 18:10:44 04/07/05 Thu

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• Meant For Each Other? -- Candice, 08:54:17 04/03/05 Sun
  What was it about Nicholas that made him the perfect man to help heal Bethie?
  
  In your opinion why was Bethie the perfect counterpart to Nicholas?
  

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  • I think the fact that they'd both been hurt,yet still retained their compassion & longing for human contact.They'd both been alone for so long,I think they really wanted some kind of comfort,something to erase the memories from before. (NT) -- Boadicea, 09:56:39 04/03/05 Sun
  • Nicholas was perfect for Bethie because he had been violated just as she had, and so he understood better than any other what she needed from him. Bethie was perfect for Nicholas because she didn't try to take from him, only to give to him. They were both survivors and had such inner strength, but they never really realized it until they met each other. (NT) -- Christa, 12:29:09 04/03/05 Sun
    • I couldn't say it better. I agree with EVERYTHING you said, Christa. Beautifully put. (NT) -- Ana, 15:39:35 04/03/05 Sun
  • Nicholas was perfect for Bethie because he was something she never had in her life. A male who respected and protected her. As for Bethie being perfect for Nicholas, after being dead inside for years, she somehow got beneath his barriers (just by being who she is) and made him feel again. She brought back his humanity and compassion. Dang, this is a hard question, LOL. (NT) -- , 16:08:05 04/03/05 Sun
  • I like to think that besides his own positive characteristics, and prior to the hellish turn of events in his life, Nicholas had had some very important "education". He had grown up in a loving family, with wonderful parents who were in love, and a father who knew how to treat a wife - all of which were probably so deeply imprinted in his heart, that he couldn't turn his back on Bethie in the beginning or give up on her in the end! (NT) -- Lina, 02:37:03 04/04/05 Mon
    • Very well said Lina. And Bethie was his perfect counterpart because of her strength & courage and because she earned his trust & admiration. A strong woman - like his mother (NT) -- Vic, 07:29:15 04/04/05 Mon
  • Everyone else has already echoed my feelings on this question. (NT) -- Danielle, 13:35:09 04/04/05 Mon
    • I also wanted to add here that I think they balanced each other very well. Most of the successful (in relationships) couples I know are opposites and compliment each other well. I think that while both had their struggles and trust issues they came from different things. This helped them to be able to nurture and heal each other (I am having a hard time articulating what I think). (NT) -- Danielle, 18:56:20 04/04/05 Mon
  • Well hell, this is why I hate to come late to these discussions, everyone has said it all already.. I agree with Lina & Leiha that pretty much covers how I felt. (NT) -- Linda, 20:24:25 04/04/05 Mon
  • I'm so thrilled that this came through. As you all have said in different ways, each of them had experienced deep, horrendous violation and pain. They had a natural sympathy for the pain in the other person, even when they didn't trust one another. Nicholas knew what Bethie had suffered and was strong enough to set aside his own feelings to try to heal hers. Bethie never pushed him, but just by being warm and human and loving, opened his heart up again. And Linda, I LOVE it that you mention Nicholas's childhood. He was raised by two wonderful people -- Alec and Cassie -- and that decency and strength and love was inside him, even when he didn't know it. (NT) -- P.C., 21:04:56 04/06/05 Wed
    • Wait, that should read "Lina." LOL! Yes, one of the things I knew about Nicholas from the first moment he came to me was that he had a lot of his father inside him -- his father's resolve and strength and his mother's sense of humanity. (NT) -- P.C., 21:06:23 04/06/05 Wed
  • I was truly touched by that scene. It's not an easy ( if not inpossible ) thing facing such a tremendous fear as loss of control after what he had been put through. He cared so deeply by then that he totally swallowed his own emotional pain/fear of being tied down and vunerable. Not only was Nicolas a beautiful man, scars and all, he has a gentle soul and deep compassion. I melt for a tortured hero like that. (NT) -- jaycee, 09:32:17 04/07/05 Thu
  • I think in a way they saw themselves in each other. Both had been horribly violated and even though Nicholas had come from a loving home, his experience was too much just to shake off. Nicholas saw someone in Bethie that he couldn't just walk away from. He felt he had to protect her even though she didn't ask him to. And both admired each other's strength. Although their first meeting was bad...I didn't blame Bethie for being scared of him. (NT) -- xina, 14:37:33 04/07/05 Thu
    • I'd have been scared of him, too. Think of how scary it is to be surprised by some scruffy-looking guy. Now imagine it when you're all alone in the middle of a war. YIKES! (NT) -- PC, 17:16:28 04/07/05 Thu

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• Ecuyer..... -- Lina, 08:13:29 04/03/05 Sun
  Why do you think Ecuyer had contacted Nicholas’s father with the details of his marriage and will? Do you think he was trying to break them up, because she was a commoner? Or was he basically a good guy at heart?
  

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  • I think he was maybe trying to make up to them ,for some of the sh*tty things he had done at the fort.I don't think he was basically a good guy(the blankets,how horrible!)but kmaybe he thought to bring Nicholas together with his family again. (NT) -- Boadicea, 10:32:14 04/03/05 Sun
  • You know, I really thought that Ecuyer was an all-around jerk. His sending word to Nicholas' father had nothing to do with Bethie & Nicholas' happiness in my mind, rather it was another way for him to show that he knew better than Nicholas what was best for him. He was interfering, not helping. If he wanted to help anyone, it was himself -- he probably thought Nicholas' father would thank him for giving him a warning, of sorts, about this common woman and his son's foolishness. (NT) -- Ana, 15:52:09 04/03/05 Sun
    • Yep, gotta go with Ana on this one. He was a totally unredeemable SUBhuman being and his motives were completely self-serving. I think the sign of a great author is to be able to write a TOTALLY horrible, wicked villian, & I think Ecuyer is one of the best since the one in the "Bastard" series by John Jakes. This was a great accomplishement by Pamela & I applaude her talent in this area (NT) -- Vic, 07:55:18 04/04/05 Mon
      • You know how sometimes some briliant authors can turn a seriously nasty character from one book into a hero in another??? I was thinking, that there could have been a verrrry small ( like the hint of a smoke before the spark that starts a fire...) chance that this guy could be redeemed, but then I got to the part were he ordered the dogs to be shot! well that and the fact that he was a historical figure. What a waste of oxygen, eh? (NT) -- Lina, 19:46:37 04/04/05 Mon
  • I agree with Ana and Vic on this one. I did not find any redeeming qualities in Ecuyer at all. I believe his thought was that Nicholas's family would have the same opinion of his involvement with Bethie that he did and that his letter would merit some sort of reward or would help to make Bethie and Nicholas unhappy. (NT) -- Danielle, 13:50:05 04/04/05 Mon
  • I haven't a clue, he was just a jerk!!! (NT) -- Linda, 21:02:59 04/04/05 Mon
  • I HATE this guy! Ecuyer was a real person, and the stuff about shooting dogs and giving small pox infected blankets to the Indians is REAL. Egads! I tried to make him human, but I had a strong bias against him. And here's the scoop: Ecuyer wrote to Alec hoping to curry favor with a powerful man by telling him where his first-born son was. He was hoping Alec would do him a favor some day or be in his debt at the least. He doesn't care one whit for Nicholas, though he does respect him as a "soldier." In fact, Nicholas was not happy that Ecuyer did this because he wasn't necessarily ready to see his father again. And Ecuyer absolutely felt that Alec would be unhappy about Bethie. Ha! (NT) -- P.C., 21:52:26 04/06/05 Wed

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