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Date Posted: 10:22:22 09/27/01 Thu
Author: Rose
Subject: Straight and Steady
In reply to: Julie 's message, "Red-meat-eating men!" on 02:15:47 09/27/01 Thu

So if this line, "Straight and Steady" is going to be Archer's signature... and we know TPTB felt Janeway was unstable, or you might say 'unsteady'... does that mean that they're saying what I think they're saying?????

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Replies:

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> hetro and lackluster... -- Julie, 11:21:24 09/27/01 Thu

Yes Rose,
I'd say,
they are saying,
they saw,
what we saw.

This seems a major rehaul of the franchise. A hetero-sexualization and de-feminization of Star Trek, I think it is known as being put through a Russell Crowe filter.

Sort of kidding, sort of sadly serious.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Spoilers...Re: hetro and lackluster... -- Nance, 11:43:58 09/27/01 Thu

**This seems a major rehaul of the franchise. A hetero-sexualization and de-feminization of Star Trek, I think it is known as being put through a Russell Crowe filter.**

BIG MISTAKE! This franchise is not healthy enough to alienate it's VERY IMPORTANT female audiance. And this show, so far, is not good enough to make up the difference in lost female viewers. The one slightly redeming thing happened at the end of the show where Archer put his tail between his legs and admitted to T'Pol that the mission would have failed without her. She agreed. Then he admitted to his preconceived prejudices and vowed to leave them behind....
without actually apologizing for being as asshole.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Spoilers...Re: hetro and lackluster... -- andrewsfan, 13:02:32 09/27/01 Thu


Well, it will alienate some women but I've already read a few comments from women who like Archer in his blue underwear.

I also saw the potential for a lot of m/m subtext and fanfic.

The show had images and a theme about fathers and sons and male bonding. However, I don't think the actors or characters are stellar enough to hold viewer attention. "Broken Bow" did seem to use a lot of old Trek plot bits and pieces. There don't seem to be any fresh ideas.

I do wonder if it might get an audience based on the current world situation. More and more people may want to let TV characters do their travelling for them. IN "Enterprise" the good and bad guys will be defined and good will win out. That could appeal to many. How Ironic that "Enterprise" could grow into a success not from within but from influences from without.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Spoilers...Re: hetro and lackluster... -- Cathy, 17:42:37 09/27/01 Thu

I hate to tell you this Nance, but ST was never aimed at women, even KM admits to that. They would like very much for us women to go take a flying leap out of the nearest airlock so that they can increase their teenage boy base. From all of the descriptions I have heard about Enterprise, they are well on thier way to perfect demographic heaven. I hope they choke on it.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Spoilers...Re: hetro and lackluster... -- Nance, 18:50:22 09/27/01 Thu

I agree with you Cathy...their target is young males. But I think they are fooling themselves to ignore the large female audience.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: hetro and lackluster... -- Kat, 21:59:55 09/27/01 Thu

"I think it is known as being put through a Russell Crowe filter."

Don't know if I like that comparison - I like Russell Crowe, he's got a rep of being a very good mate to his female friends. A man's man but no chauvenist. (Ignore me - just kiwi loyalty here..)

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> He's just the manliest man I could think of... -- Julie, 00:02:22 09/28/01 Fri

I didn't mean it as a dig.

I like Crowe too. charismatic, yes. talented, god lord yes. high estrogen content, not so much.

And bonus point for being wonderful in Sum of Us.

I don't want to piss off the kiwis

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: He's just the manliest man I could think of... -- andrewsfan, 00:10:14 09/28/01 Fri


What's this - small print? Do you know how hard it is for those of us in advanced years to read small print? ;-)

And what's all this talk about manly men...

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> the wee font -- Julie, 00:59:34 09/28/01 Fri

That's my "talking to myself" font size. I'll keep it at 12 for you, since you're advanced and all. ;)

You know, the manly talk, Enterprise started it. I was just reacting.
I'll eat some soy or something and get my estrogen back up.

uhm... J7

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Enterprise...what's the point?? -- Nance, 11:26:18 09/27/01 Thu

Hi,
Saw Enterprise last night...It was pretty much what I thought it would be, mediocre. Although at times I thought it was embarassingly bad. The animosity of the crew towards T'Pol was annoying and quite frankly disgusting. Archer and especially the commander "Trip"(?) were so crass and hostile at times it was hard to take them seriously as Starfleet officers. This show had some of this worst dialog fall out of these guys mouths, honestly how far back have we gone here Neanderthal days. I'd like to see one of them get away with that crap in 2001 let alone the 22nd century.
The biggest surprise for me was T'Pol. I thought I would hate her...she was the best thing about the show. She was WAY more intelligent than ANY of the Enterprise crew; showed WAY more class and stood steadfast when all she got was condesending, hostile rhetoric from the guys. I'm probably going to watch the series JUST for her...until TPTB ruin her character, which they will because, well, she's a female after all. It's funny, so many 'fans' complained
that Seven of Nine always saved the day on Voyager, and here they now have T'Pol saving everyone's butts from day one.
The best part of the night for me was, in my area of the country, Voyager comes on at 10:00pm. After Enterprise tonight I watched Voyager's "One Small Step". An outstanding episode, which only made Enterprise look even more pathetic.
Anyway, just my opinion.

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