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Date Posted: 15:20:25 10/22/09 Thu
Author: Gachnar
Author Host/IP: NoHost / 216.186.97.1
Subject: I have a nagging question, too!

Was I the only one who worried about Angel turning all Angelus again when Connor was a baby? I mean, I know he was worried about the kid's future, and money and all, but didn't he seem VERY happy?

I really thought that was where they were going.

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Replies:

[> I think we were supposed to suspect that. -- Joe, 15:34:59 10/22/09 Thu (c-76-108-180-115.hsd1.fl.comcast.net/76.108.180.115)

There was the whole "the father will kill the son" thing, plus Angel remarking that the baby smelled like food. It was misdirection to set up a motive for Wes stealing the baby.

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[> Yep, me too..hook line and sinker. -- sparkle, 16:25:49 10/22/09 Thu (71-14-185-212.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com/71.14.185.212)


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[> Thanks. I guess the thing was, they didn't -- Gachnar, 16:28:04 10/22/09 Thu (NoHost/216.186.97.1)

"anvil" us with dialog like, "Say, doesn't Angel look positively overjoyed . . . OMG!"

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[> [> ...which is a prime example of how much better Joss is than most other TV writers. -- Joe, 17:27:48 10/22/09 Thu (c-76-108-180-115.hsd1.fl.comcast.net/76.108.180.115)


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[> Well, I guess I'm a real nut. I never worried about Angelus showing up -- Saltygoodness, 23:18:09 10/22/09 Thu (ppp-70-244-206-251.dsl.austtx.swbell.net/70.244.206.251)

because of Conner's birth. I always bought into the theory that Angel needed "one perfect moment of happiness" and that that "one moment" had occurred with Buffy. I never worried about the curse after Angel returned the first time. I thought Ats made that clear on a number of occasions. I think the only reason Angel didn't have more liasons was because of the Buffy/Angel fans. After all, Joss said everytime the storyline got close he could hear the yelling and see the torches. *grin* and *hugs*

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[> [> But in Season 4, Awakening, the moment of perfect happiness was with Cordy! -- Gachnar, 11:25:11 10/23/09 Fri (NoHost/216.186.97.1)

From the script:

"HYPERION HOTEL— ANGEL’S SUITE—
Angel stands at window, looking out through the curtains at the daylight and smiling. Cordelia approaches and stands behind him.

CORDELIA; Must be hard, seeing everyone so happy because of what you did. Bringing the light back but not being able to go out into it.

Angel lets the curtain fall closed.

ANGEL: There’s no place I’d rather be… than here with you...

He turns to her and looks deep into her eyes. She leans forward and kisses him softly, then more urgently. He suddenly seems worried and pulls back slightly.

ANGEL: Cordy…

CORDELIA: No. Whatever it is. Whatever the reason or excuse or logic, we’re here. Now. Together. Everything is the way it’s supposed to be. For once. Angel… haven’t we waited long
enough?

They kiss again, their passion mounting. She unbuttons his shirt and slides it off his shoulders as he slides her nightgown down and kisses her neck.

Later. He pushes her down on the bed and lowers himself down on top of her. Cordelia closes her eyes as Angel makes love to her, sighing with pleasure. As their passion mounts and their climax approaches, Angel’s eyes suddenly snap open in shock and rolls off Cordelia and looks around
fearfully.

ANGEL:
Buffy… oh god… no!"

And then he wakes up, strapped to the table. Angelus.

Now, I never figured out just why they had him say "Buffy," here, but to me it was clearly Cordy he was, um, very happy with.

And yet, I believe that it wasn't just sex with Buffy, or sex at all, but happiness itself that triggered the Angelus' release. And for that matter, I always thought that curse was completely crazy - I mean, I get that the curse of Angel having a soul was to make him suffer remorse for Angelus' misdeeds, but then why that loophole? If Angel lost his soul that wouldn't have been a punishment for Angelus, would it? The thinking just seems fuzzy to me.

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[> [> [> But wasn't this a magically engineered "moment of perfect happiness?" -- Saltygoodness, 14:59:32 10/23/09 Fri (adsl-99-49-32-74.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net/99.49.32.74)

I don't know, it all seemed rather fuzzy to me, but I loved the entire story line anyway. Oh, one of life's great mysteries to me was why so many fans adored Holtz! I wanted the great man drawn and quartered. Just think, though, here it is 5 years since we've seen a new episode and we are still yakking about them. Wonderful!

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[> [> [> [> Plus it wasn't just Cordy... -- Michael, 18:23:35 10/23/09 Fri (c-69-143-225-215.hsd1.md.comcast.net/69.143.225.215)

It was ALL of Angel's most important problems being solved in a short period of time (at least in the magically-induced fantasy) that created the "moment of perfect happiness".

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[> [> [> [> Re: But wasn't this a magically engineered "moment of perfect happiness?" -- AW, 12:48:11 10/24/09 Sat (c-71-201-144-231.hsd1.il.comcast.net/71.201.144.231)

Ugh, yes, me too!

I wish Angel had gotten to go into the hell dimension and face him down.

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: But wasn't this a magically engineered "moment of perfect happiness?" -- Ripper, 10:48:52 10/27/09 Tue (NoHost/141.222.17.15)

My comments on "Awakening," but first some questions---

When watching this episode for the first time, did anybody believe that it was really happening? I was unspoiled, but remember thinking that something seemed off. Not sure if I knew it was a dream, or, more acurately "a magically engineered moment of perfect happiness" but it did seem like a distorted reality. Was anybody fooled? Were we supposed to be?

That said, Cordelia looking down at her breasts and saying "I knew you two would get me into trouble some day" was perfect Cordelia.

Was this Angel's perfect day? Or somebody else's idea of Angel's perfect day? Did he control it, in the sense of when you are aware that you're dreaming, and so you can make things happen to fit your wishes?

Okay, on to my comments---

We don't know for certain that Cordelia alone wouldn't have caused the perfect moment. What we do know is that all of the other elements previously in the day didn't cause the perfect moment. In a nutshell, Wesley comes back into the fold and apologizes to Angel. Angel reconciles with Connor, and all is well between them. The entire team is together, and as a unit, they defeat the Beast, restoring the sun. Then Angel has his perfect moment with Cordelia, and loses his soul. In all likelihood, it is a combination of all of the above. But my point is we'll never know for certain.

Also, interesting that just before Angel and Cordelia achieve the perfect moment, he wants to stop, fearful of what might happen. This harkens back to his first time with Buffy. Again, it was Angel that put the brakes on for a moment, but the girl that insisted on continuing.

Finally, I love his evil laugh at the end of the episode.

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