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Date Posted: 13:38:28 09/03/12 Mon
Author: SV
Author Host/IP: nycmspsrvz2ts202-dmz.mycingular.net / 198.228.200.144
Subject: Can anyone tell me, briefly...
...What has happened to Buffy, angel, spike and the rest of the gang in the comics since the series ended? There are no comic shops in my area and our bookstore doesn't carry the title. I've looked online and all I can find is vague synopsis. Thanks to any willing to inform the uninformed!!!
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Wish I could help, but have no idea. Maybe Lewis? -- sparkle, 16:32:54 09/03/12 Mon (24-107-128-138.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com/24.107.128.138)
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Re: Can anyone tell me, briefly... -- kim, 03:31:48 09/04/12 Tue (cpe-75-82-41-188.socal.res.rr.com/75.82.41.188)
You don't really want to know. They've been destroying the integrity of practically every character.
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Season 8 is a lot like Season 5 writ large... (Major S8 Spoilers) -- Michael, 20:10:25 09/05/12 Wed (c-76-111-136-13.hsd1.md.comcast.net/76.111.136.13)
Technically spoilers for all the seasons, but I'm assuming that you're familiar with the broadcast seasons.
Here's a brief thematic overview I wrote shortly after the end of S8. Anything it says about S9 (which we're currently about midway through for both the Buffy and the Angel/Faith titles) is speculation based on what was known at the time.
(So far I think the speculation holds up reasonably well.)
(begin overview)
Quick summary: Season 5 writ large plus parallels to Season 2. Season 3/6 to come?
I've always thought of Season 8 as being a lot like Season 5 but on a larger scale. We start S8 on a hopeful note with Buffy in her new role as leader of the Slayer army. But, as in Season 5, she becomes aware of a new threat. One which proves to be more than she can deal with. The pressure grows on multiple fronts until in the "Retreat" arc (as in S5 "Spiral") she basically bolts in panic. And when that fails she escapes into a private universe. Unlike Season 5, however, she leaves the private universe on her own, without needing anyone's help. Like Season 5 she returns to a desperate situation. One which she does find a way out of but at great cost. Not her death this time, but four other "deaths". The death of magic, the disintegration of her Slayer Army, the death of her father-figure and adviser Giles, and Angel's descent into his own private hell inside his mind.
There are also parallels to Season 2. The person who is guiding the attacks on the Slayer army turns out to be Angel. Not a soulless Angel as in Season 2, but instead one who honestly believes he is doing the right thing--choosing the only possible alternative that doesn't end in annihilation. And just as in Season 2, Angel is trying to break Buffy down emotionally. And, of course, he ultimately gets sent to hell, at least metaphorically.
A frequent division of the broadcast seasons is to divide them into two trilogies: Seasons 1-3 and 5-7, with Season 4 as a transitional season. Looking at S8, I think there is a case for a different division. Seasons 1-3, Seasons 4-6, and Seasons 7-9. Seasons 1 and 4 both introduce a new situation. In Season 1 Buffy comes to Sunnydale, while in Season 4 she enters college. And both Seasons 1 and 4 end on a reasonably straightforward victory. Season 7 isn't as much of a new situation, although it is Buffy's first introduction to her role as General. But like Seasons 1 and 4 it ends in a solid victory. Seasons 2, 5, and 8 all show Buffy overwhelmed by circumstances. And they all end in death or the equivalent. And in a "victory" that is very much Pyrrhic. And in all three cases, Buffy takes a break from her duties before being recalled to them. Seasons 3 and 6 both deal with the consequences of "death" and "resurrection" and both end in a "graduation".
Which brings us to Season 9. There are four "deaths" in Season 8. I do not expect Giles' death to be reversed. Angel's "death" however will be. Story-external, we know that Angel will have his own S9 series. Story-internal, he's actually already survived worse. And Faith is perhaps the best person to bring him back from his particular paralysis. Of all the people who know Angel, she's the only one he might be able to face right now. She's the one HE helped save from her own darkness.
The Slayer army may reform in part, at least informally as events unfold. I suspect one reason it fell apart so completely was that Buffy may not have made any effort to keep it together.
Which brings us to magic. Willow seems determined to find some way to bring magic back. Partly for personal reasons (she seems to suggest she has fallen in love with Saga Vasuki) but also because she thinks the world needs magic. I suspect she will at least partially succeed, but with results that are not entirely pleasant.
Remember my suggestion of a triple trilogy structure. And that Season 8 has elements of both Seasons 2 and 5. This may suggest that Season 9 will have elements of both Seasons 3 and 6 (which is fitting since 3+6=9). That it will see one or more of the Scoobies put through the emotional wringer. And perhaps will end in some important milestone.
(end overview)
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Re: Season 8 is a lot like Season 5 writ large... (Major S8 Spoilers) -- Michael, 20:14:05 09/05/12 Wed (c-76-111-136-13.hsd1.md.comcast.net/76.111.136.13)
One additional note on actual S9 events.
Angel is, in fact, trying to reverse Giles' death. I suspect it will end about as well as his grand schemes tend to.
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Above messages also have spoilers for S9 -- Michael, 20:17:03 09/05/12 Wed (c-76-111-136-13.hsd1.md.comcast.net/76.111.136.13)
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Re: Season 8 is a lot like Season 5 writ large... (Major S8 Spoilers) -- chuckit25, 09:33:14 09/19/12 Wed (cpe-76-84-128-83.neb.res.rr.com/76.84.128.83)
A very brief and diplomatic overview. I am actually going to keep this post. Great job and absolutely wonderful that you are here, still in the fandom to feed that beastie.
We are all growing up to be a lot kinder than the evil overlord Joss, sticking the Voy demon in the gizzard to chew on ours. And yes, he did read the Overlord Manifesto to kill anyone cared for as some great positive statement too often escaping narrative necessity. I notice his feminism by its pointed absence and raising "issues" his heroine never has to face, as she did in the first three seasons. Oh, well.
I will study this arrangement of arcs a little more closely for what I think is an insight into some real wisdom and that oddity of meaning that actually unites people in a more positive way.
BTW, season 8 was the most important idea I saw in mythic fulfillment and, it wasn't Angel who ruined it, despite the common belief in fandom. Don't forget death is indeed the over arching metaphor and paradox is the key. I think that dual time lines offers a view of greatest resolution for the avatars e.g. Buffy and Angel; and the "real people" they are e.g Dawn and Xander and Connor, as the difference between the psychological plane and that of people who must struggle with the experience that exists within and within the world--why myth is actually all the same (spiritual) story or journey in all religions of the world. And the great "tragedies" actually are the completion, recognition/accomplishment: you will always find "the female principle" is recognized to accomplish it, whatever the gender of the "hero." Trouble is, most people never read the real "endings" to the myths that the symbol language is not the "thing" itself. Which can't even be talked about. The closest language may be music.
Thanks!
Be well!
chuckit25
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Thanks, all...(spoilers) -- SV, 21:21:18 09/05/12 Wed (nycmspsrvz2ts204-dmz.mycingular.net/198.228.200.146)
I can't believe that about Giles. I guess it had to happen eventually--Giles age plus constantly being in dangerous situations, plus Buffys dramatic-arc need to stand on her own without a parental figure That sucks, tho...Guess well never see a Giles series after-all. Did they at least explore his Ripper past/side before he died.
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A bit more on Giles (Spoilers) -- Michael, 07:22:35 09/06/12 Thu (NoHost/148.129.129.171)
We didn't really get an exploration of his Ripper past in S8.
We have gotten some additional Giles backstory (mostly not the Ripper years) in S9 and will probably get a bit more as Angel's quest continues.
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Re: Can anyone tell me, briefly... -- Caroline, 23:54:28 09/05/12 Wed (5ade0769.bb.sky.com/90.222.7.105)
Crikey, that's cheerless. I feel as I should just pop off and slit my throat now!
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Joss has never been much for cheerful... -- Michael, 18:45:51 09/06/12 Thu (c-76-111-136-13.hsd1.md.comcast.net/76.111.136.13)
And a lot of (for example) Season 6 was rather grim in tone.
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