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Date Posted: 00:28:10 08/07/15 Fri
Author: SV
Author Host/IP: cpe-69-23-46-109.natcky.res.rr.com /
Subject: I've been re-watching Angel on Netflix...

...and DAMN do I miss the Buffyverse! It makes me so sad that Angel never got that sixth season (the comics don't count to me, it's just not the same). I think if Angel had gotten one more year, it would've gotten more, maybe even surpassed Buffy in length--I mean, look at Supernatural, it's on its, what...10th? 11th season?

The one thing that bugs me about Angel season 5, that tells me there should've been more? What in the HELL stopped the producers from getting SMG back for one episode??? Was there a fight or something? Anybody have any knowledge on this?

But there was so much set-up toward the end of s5 that was clearly meant to lead into another season, and then it just...stopped. It kills me!

Anyway, just thought I'd drop by and rant. I miss these shows and I miss coming to these boards. (How are these boards even still open, they've got to be costing somebody money they aren't getting back?) But I guess it's like Angel and Spike learn (or fail to learn) in A Girl In Question: at some point you just have to learn to move on.

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[> Re: I've been re-watching Angel on Netflix... -- chuckit25, 08:53:21 08/07/15 Fri (cpe-76-84-201-26.neb.res.rr.com/


And subscribers, NETFLIX will drop both Buffy and Angel, so get busy if that re-visit has been on your list.

First we start out with this notion of redemption; then we wander down Oedipus lane (he killed Darla, set Dru and Darla on fire--so I gotta ask: what's it take that Angel left Buffy a whole lot more evolved than that?
(That is because he moved on within the "journey" in the position of the LOVER, which means "choice."

Next. The reason SMG couldn't do the episode was a. She was doing the Grudge in Japan; so the flight, back and forth was more like "around the world"--time realities for a day shoot b. The efforts for the networks to establish Angel as separate from Buffy was but one cost to the "story" --despite the actual references, symbolically and otherwise each year, as was ALSO done in BTVS in reference to Angel. c. Had we had a sixth season Wes would not have been killed, and no one can say he didn't just "KILL IT" in his dark journey,that we actually did see, even to overshadowing the performance of DB. Which might be reason d. (d.)There was a Cangel fandom who never understood the entire relationship "never happened"--the proof is not the subject of my response to your post. E. More importantly, there were fans who had no idea who Buffy is, other than some "ex"--never mind the fact that in good writing there is such a thing as "implied promise."

(Implied promises re Buffy and Angel are in the word "becoming" and were held in those pesky prophecies that always came true, specifically to the protagonists, "death/change" was the requirement for "becoming" and it had to be the 3rd death, of course, for "normal" and "mortal" aka ADULTHOOD. Which is what season eight began, but failed. The writers (murdered all canon to character) in order to speak of an utterly "dumbed down" approach of extremes: hell and heaven (aka Eden). Joss himself pointed out that Buffy's tragedy is that she must destroy the world. (childhood).

Last e. the ratings of ATS started with the (then) majority of BTVS fans (Bangels) who thought, "Oh, boy! Two hours of 'Buffy'--then the network bid of BTVS on UPN at too high a price and very Podunk compared to Fox and the need for each to capture ratings/advertising dollars. So, the separation really began in the "possession" story of "Waiting in the Wings" that really blew life into Cangel--since this guy is called "the eunuch" because of his curse that can end the world (and some of ATS is exploring the limits of sex and the nature of what Buffy is within HIMSELF). Anyroad. The Bangels threw up and didn't want to watch Angel so carelessly tempting fate in the arms of Cordy. After all, she a. wouldn't sleep with a vampire b. would never be second fiddle to anyone, especially Buffy Summers.

As for Angel, his need for a savior/redemption (grace with God--after all the slayer was a(N) pure instrument of God to fight evil, in his mind) and that was turned into the mission of (atheism) responsibility for the self (existentialism. Those ideas require one to assume "free will" and such ideas of destiny and fate are rather dismissed...other than the fact we know we are destined/fated to die, of course.

Bottom line? This tale is NOT some "Cabin in the Woods" and love/lovers MUST die within the life and drama of human beings, until such time, that ONLY when the entire world is actually ending that human beings were "special" because they love/connect. IN short: THE JOURNEY IS THE ODYSSEY and that actually had "the happy ending:" HE LEARNED. The fact Angel is "stuck" as a vampire states he HAS NOT LEARNED.

Admittedly, my views of Joss are completely love/hate. I do not think ATS was a cliff hangar, in literary terms, but I have hated MOST of Joss Whedon's finales and I used to blame it on the fact Joss tried to juggle three different projects at a time and bungled them at the cost of his "new toy."

NOw I simply disagree with his having to "ditch" character, plot lines, premises--you name it--in favor of "wrapping it up" (and actually trying to do so EVERY year, in fears of cancellation). I believe Joss is a cynic, the cowardly stance of the idealist and my own journey is to gain the wisdom of joy and deeper, wider compassion for the sufferings of humans. "They shouldn't have to suffer the way they do." (And much of that requires one to recognize one's own perceptions (neurotically?) mean we might not have learned "to know what to see."

And yes, Joss does recognize the thing called "fan service" despite his supposed "service to the story" platitudes.

Be well

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[> Re: I've been re-watching Angel on Netflix... -- kim, 04:20:31 08/10/15 Mon (cpe-172-248-180-184.socal.res.rr.com/

SMG wasn't available at the time they were filming The Girl In Question. It was explained at the time and we knew she wouldn't be in it. They used pre-recorded material for Buffy's voice that season, too, because she wasn't available. No bad blood at all. SMG was willing if she'd had the time.

Supernatural is going into season 11.

Season 6 would've had Team Angel in a Hell dimension and working their way back home. They'd be coming back together after the splintering of the group over W&H stuff. Illyria and Fred would've been split apart. Wes would've been in season 6, too. Amy and Joss shared these details in the months after cancellation when asked what season 6 would've been.

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[> [> Re: Didn't I say some of that LONGER? ha! -- chuckit25, 12:43:40 08/15/15 Sat (cpe-76-84-201-26.neb.res.rr.com/

Adding BTVS in comics also going to season 11...but that may change. We have been promised that Buffy's "Big Bad" is "maturity"--so I feel certain we will see season 11. Eye roll.

Angel reduced from 30 to 25 issues to do the (fanservice) crossover to BTVS and then return to his own issue(s) and drag Dru into the story of Archaeus being an actual part of Clan Aurelius. OH! Frillyia has "Fred is back" in Ireland, while this "bubble" of "Magic Town" in London holds "sentient magick" and Faith n Fred team up to teach at a prep school.
Your servant

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[> My only question about the comics: does Wes continue to be a badass? -- SV, 05:13:11 08/19/15 Wed (cpe-69-23-46-109.natcky.res.rr.com/

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[> [> Re: Badassery equals vengeance? -- chuckit25, 09:18:07 08/19/15 Wed (cpe-76-84-201-26.neb.res.rr.com/

THe last (official) appearance of WES was in the series of After The Fall by Brian Lynch--a series I enjoyed immensely.

And, it was written "out of the gate" of season five's finale--LA became "Hell A" and Angel's immortality was changed to mortality. WES was written as capable, mature, and helpful; he was a complex adult and he made the "glamours" to hide Angel's mortality and helped also to heal his vulnerability. When "ev-vv=very body is evil and seeing the real agenda is key, I think Wes was more "real" than his "collapse" in season 5, however "justified" WES felt about "using the plan" to mostly commit suicide.

Wes in ATF was also a ghost. I have given a synopsis of this ATF season before, but if you didn't read it, maybe you don't want me to spoil it. The character of WES is not inept, or raging, but also not "all knowing" nor some kind of "goofy."--he had lived and lost too much, but he still "engages" the unknown and is indeed a good friend to Angel because he is "a good man who can square with reality and see it through."

I won't belabor Joss okayed the thing, but hated the finale of ATF and I LOVED, LOVED it!
At your service,

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[> Thanks for all the replies, guys! -- SV, 21:51:32 08/22/15 Sat (cpe-69-23-46-109.natcky.res.rr.com/

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