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Date Posted: 04:28:38 11/12/08 Wed
Author: Dave James
Subject: Re: Bob and Nellie
In reply to: JM 's message, "Re: Bob and Nellie" on 15:05:37 11/11/08 Tue

You are correct. The idea to fire Bob and Nellie did, indeed, start at Gateway Center, but, as I wrote, the Pirates had the final say-so. They could have nixed the idea, but they folded. You are also correct that Nellie was an innocent bystander in the drive-by shooting. It would be hard to find a nicer man than Nellie. And, it's true that Bill Hartman was the devil incarnate. The hand that he patted you on the back with often had a knife in it. A lot of people who thought they were buddies with Bill got the axe. I felt that blade once when he replaced me on Bogut's show with Eleanor Shano, but I must say that Bill later apologized, returned me to Bogut's show and gave me a raise that more than covered the money I had lost. Also, Ed King's final days were truly sad. Just a day or two befoe Ed died, Jim Jeffries and I sat him in a chair and literally carried him into the studio for "Party Line," then carried him back out. But, one thing Hartman could not do was strip Ed of his dignity. He tried, but Ed remained a gentleman and a professional to the end.



>Dave, I say this with all due respect because you were
>at KDKA when it happened, but the idea to fire Bob and
>Nellie started at Gateway Center. I covered the story
>when it happened and have had extensive conversations
>on and off the record with the principle characters in
>the ensuing years.
>
>Ed Wallis and Bill Hartman loathed Prince after years
>of personal conflict. They wanted not only to get him
>off the air, but also to cut his heart out and
>humiliate him. The Pirates had grown disenchanted with
>Prince because he was wandering away from the games
>and refused to heed their instructions to stay on
>topic. The Pirates were exasperated with Prince, and
>they endorsed the idea to fire him. Nellie was caught
>in the crossfire because he had been so closely
>associated with Prince. In fact, the Pirates devised
>to plan to protect Nellie. They created a job in the
>front office (speakers bureau) for him with the idea
>that he'd stay off the air for a season or two until
>the storm passed. Then they would get him back on the
>air. But Nellie was so wounded by the firing that he
>wanted nothing to do with the Pirates. The opportunity
>at Duquesne presented itself and he took it, which
>worked out well. His three daughters were all able to
>get degrees tuition-free because he was an employee.
>Nellie served Duquesne exceptionally well in multiple
>roles for more than 20 years.
>
>Prince's "angels" in the past had been general manager
>Joe L. Brown and Tom Johnson (minority partner of the
>Galbreaths in the ownership). They had always smoothed
>over the problems with KDKA. This time, though, they
>became convinced that Prince had become impossible to
>work with and they agreed that he should go. Joe Brown
>has said it was the biggest mistake he ever made, but
>Prince also said in his later years that he was so far
>out of control that he deserved to be fired. Maybe
>there was some sort of compromise available there, but
>none seemed to be evident in 1975.
>
>KDKA took some heat, but their ratings and revenue
>weren't affected. Those were the days when they were
>still getting overall shares of 25+. The Pirates took
>the biggest hit, and that was especially critical at a
>time the Steelers were taking over the town. One
>aspect they didn't consider was Prince did hundreds of
>banquets and appearances throughout the area. The
>Pirates were always represented when Prince was there.
>(Nellie also did the same thing on a smaller scale).
>They threw away that connection. A lot of players
>passed through town in the 28 years that Prince did
>the games, but the Gunner was a constant. He WAS
>Pirates baseball. They lost that connection when they
>fired him.
>
>The craziest thing about the Prince/King firings: It
>was one of the few times a broadcasting decision was
>not driven solely by dollar signs.
>
>Again, to illustrate where the power was when it came
>to Pirates radio under the terms that existed back
>then: Milo Hamilton left for Chicago after the 1979
>season. The Pirates wanted to hire John Gordon, who
>was doing the minor league games in Columbus. KDKA
>said they would not hire anyone who didn't have major
>league experience. They chose Dave Martin, who had the
>Red Sox and Indians on his resume. But Martin hadn't
>done baseball in several years and was ill-equipped
>for the job. The poor guy had vision problems and
>sometimes couldn't follow the ball. He was fired after
>one season, and Lanny became a de facto No. 1. Gordon
>got a break somewhere else and has done major league
>games since then for a number of teams. But when push
>came to shove, KDKA had the muscle to make the call.
>
>As it's noted in the photo caption, Prince got jobs
>with ABC and the Astros, but he flopped in both. ABC
>bumped him to the No. 2 team on Monday Night Baseball
>during the season (Al Michaels moved up) and the
>Astros dropped him after one season. He was
>essentially done as a baseball broadcaster. Some of
>the stuff he did after that was embarrassingly
>small-time: Penguins TV at a time when the Pens did
>not have much of a mainstream following, Carnegie
>Mellon football on WIXZ, a talk show on a "network" of
>suburban stations. KDKA and the Pirates tried to bring
>him back for a part-time role in 1985, but he was
>terminally ill and unable to work more than one
>weekend.
>
>As I'm sure you recall, Bill Hartman had a cruel
>streak. There were favorite hangouts in town where he
>used to brag openly about what talent he planned to
>fire -- and we won't even get to the appalling
>treatment of Ed King.
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>Actually, it wasn't KDKA but the Pirates who made
>the
>>>>final decision to fire Bob and Nellie. However,
>since
>>>>they were heard on KDKA, the station took the heat.
>I
>>>>was assigned to cover their tribute parade for KDKA
>>>>Radio, and I knew then-Westinghouse Area
>>>>Vice-President Ed Wallis was glued to the radio,
>>>>listening to every word. Both Bob and Nellie were
>>>>friends of mine, and I was sweating bullets, but Ed
>>>>later complimented me on the fairness of my
>coverage.
>>>>Whew!
>>
>>
>> Dave, Do you think you could enlighten us
>>as to the events that led up to and decision making
>>that led to Bob and Nellie's dismissal's. 33 years
>>later I still miss them.

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Replies:

  • Re: Bob and Nellie -- Pretzel Winner, 06:56:46 11/12/08 Wed
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