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Subject: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
NYCblue
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Date Posted: 07:14:12 11/11/16 Fri

The Columbia University wrestling teamís season-opening match has been canceled after a series of sexually explicit and racially charged messages among some of the wrestlers were made public.

The wrestlers from the class of 2017 called their female classmates ďfeminist bitchesĒ and ďugly socially awkward c- - -sĒ on a private texting app called GroupMe, according to the leaked text messages on the Columbia student-run news site Bwog.

Another crude text shows a classmate telling another that they ďf- -ked a bald black girl.Ē

The texts were part of a conversation between the members of the team, who could not be reached for comment Thursday night.

ďF- -k we shoulda went to state schools,Ē one of the student wrestlers writes to his buddies in the group chat.

Another responds, ďDude no lie we would run the town of any state school f- -k those feminist bitches.Ē

At another point, the wrestlers use racial slurs, including an abbreviation of the N-word, to describe protesters in Ferguson, Mo., after the killing of Michael Brown.

ďdid you see any of those n- -s in North St Louis protesting that teenager getting shot by cops,Ē one writes.

Another adds: ďSo far the only places that have been looted was a rim shop and a pawn shop.Ē

The school blog said the messages spanned from 2014 until a few days ago.

Columbia said the school had a ďzero toleranceĒ policy for the actions of the team and blasted the texts.

ďThey are appalling, at odds with the core values of the university, violate team guidelines and have no place in our community,Ē the school said in a statement.

As a result, the teamís season-opening match against Binghamton has been canceled.

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Replies:
[> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
Diogenes
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Date Posted: 09:59:21 11/11/16 Fri

You exercised your First Amendment rights to say what you think to your friends, so therefore you can't wrestle Binghamton. That'll teach 'em.

By the way, people all over the country are burning the American Flag as a constitutionally protected expression of their hatred for our country. If only the Columbia wrestling team had burned some American Flags they would have been allowed to wrestle Binghamton.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
LionFan
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Date Posted: 10:15:16 11/11/16 Fri

The Columbia Spectator regularly has editorials that mock and insult athletes on campus. Admissions tour guides on campus make jokes about the sports teams on tours. The Columbia band held a yearly concert in the library as a forum to poke fun of the entire campus starting with the sports teams. These public insults have been embraced by the Columbia Admin as a freedom of speech.

Wrestlers privately use crude, sophomoric, even ignorant humor in a group chat and they will be made an example of. Is this bullying? Private chats? Everyone is allowed to pretend to be a victim except male athletes.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
LionFan
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Date Posted: 10:19:40 11/11/16 Fri

The Columbia Spectator regularly has editorials that mock and insult athletes on campus. Admissions tour guides on campus make jokes about the sports teams on tours. The Columbia band held a yearly concert in the library as a forum to poke fun of the entire campus starting with the sports teams. These public insults have been embraced by the Columbia Admin as a freedom of speech.

Wrestlers privately use crude, sophomoric, even ignorant humor in a group chat and they will be made an example of. Is this bullying? Private chats? Everyone is allowed to pretend to be a victim except male athletes.

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[> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
Acob
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Date Posted: 10:12:41 11/11/16 Fri

There is nothing in the content remotely raising a free speech issue.
This foray was condemnable and disgraceful in every way.
The letter in this mornings Spectator is a perfect appropriate assessment.
The Harvard matter is bad enough but this is horrendous.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
Diogenes (Acob)
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Date Posted: 10:31:14 11/11/16 Fri

Public punishment of private speech because the punisher doesn't like what was said by the punishees is the epitome of a free speech issue. Because Columbia (which receives hundreds of millions of dollars of Federal money every year) has the power to punish its students, the punishment cannot violate the constitutional rights of those students. Foremost amongst those rights is the right privately (or publicly) to express your thoughts.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
AsiaSunset
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Date Posted: 10:42:38 11/11/16 Fri

There is absolutely no unrestricted right of free speech on a college campus. All students are subject to a code of conduct and are obligated to abide by that code. Certain rights and privileges afforded by the college including the right to participate in college athletics are not absolute and can be withdrawn for a number of reasons.

This is clearly not a first amendment issue.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
Diogenes (Asia Sunset)
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Date Posted: 10:51:25 11/11/16 Fri

Since when do Federally supported institutions have the right to discriminate against anyone based on the content of their private speech?

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
AsiaSunset
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Date Posted: 11:39:56 11/11/16 Fri

Has nothing to do with the federal government or free speech. A student at a college can say or do whatever they want. But if speech or actions violate the schools code of conduct, any privilege associated with enrollment, including the right to attend, can be taken away.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 12:11:21 11/11/16 Fri

There have been many cases, inlcuding some Supreme Court cases such as California v. Bakke regarding affirmative action issues, holding that mere receipt of federal funds does not make a private instition a "state actor", meaning subject to federal civil liberty constraints.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
Diogenes
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Date Posted: 12:31:17 11/11/16 Fri

So a student can be expelled for burning the American Flag?

A student can be expelled for quotidian private speech?

Students at Columbia have for years been running around publicly and privately calling people racists, fascists, rapists, misogynists etc. They can be expelled for that?

The punishment of private speech by those who are funded by hundreds of millions of dollars of Federal money is unconstitutional action whether by a state actor or otherwise.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 13:07:54 11/11/16 Fri

Obviously you feel philosophically that it is or should be the equivalent, but the fact is that as a matter of law, its not unconstitutional.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Probably depends where he burns it


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 13:59:47 11/11/16 Fri


He burns it in the middle of the dining hall at lunch hour, creating a serious safety issue, then he's definitely gone. The ACLU wouldn't return his call.

If he does it in the middle of the green with no one else around, then that would be an interesting case.

As others have said, private schools have a lot of leeway here.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Probably depends where he burns it


Author:
AsiaSunset
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Date Posted: 14:54:06 11/11/16 Fri

I doubt most college conduct codes would prevent the burning of the flag or other political speech; but calling women c---ts definitely would qualify.

And here the punishment fits the crime. None of these kids are being expelled, nor were any of the Harvard soccer players.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: The Ivies certainly woudln't care


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 16:02:53 11/11/16 Fri


So long as the flag burning doesn't create a physical safety issue, I'd agree that the Ivies wouldn't care.

I'm less confident that other schools would be so accommodating. Just earlier today, some players at UL-L got disciplined for a political video.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/louisiana-lafayette-coach-players-who-made-anti-trump-locker-room-video-were-disciplined-162310066.html

My gut is that we're going to see some test cases in this area in the upcoming years. We will see...

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Case in point


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 13:24:39 11/12/16 Sat


Brown's Richard Jarvis wrote "FDT" on his undershirt sleeves for today's game.

Presumably, it's the same meaning that the UL-L guys were disciplined for.

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[> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 10:20:01 11/11/16 Fri

I'm going to say this once, covering Harvard, Columbia and everybody else in the league, and then stay completely out of it.

Ivy varsity athletes are extraordinarily privileged recipients of explicit favoritism, granting them access to one of the great treasures of our civilization: a limitless, profound education. Any of them who screw this up, and most certainly any of them who publicly harm or demean others, are not only ungrateful morons, they are poisoning the waters for those who hope to succeed them and to use those treasures wisely.

There is no reason the entire league can't be Division III as of next July 1, and, obviously, this needs to be clearly conveyed to all the athletes in addition to the lofty goals the Ivies espouse while staying Division I for the time being. The presidents' jobs would actually be simplified without athletic slots and the AI to worry about, and their institutions' external reputation would be unaffected. There are thousands of fully-qualified, eager scholars yearning for the chance these students have been given.

Being egomaniacal enough to risk all this is not only self-destructive, it insults the thousands of great men and women who have worked to make Ivy athletics a symbol of something positive and unique, and it undermines any potential future for the idea as well. These students may not think it's "fair," but frankly, I don't care.

Enough; behave, be generous, be grateful, or begone.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
Menckenman (Unacceptable naivety)
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Date Posted: 13:07:15 11/11/16 Fri

As one who has lived a life of deliberate Political Incorrectness, I am appalled at the stupidity demonstrated by these supposedly intelligent athletes.
They are all aware of the context of their world at Columbia, of the attitudes of the administration and the overwhelming attitudes of the campus. So how can they go on record to say these things. What did they think would happen?
Sophomoric, filthy and horrible comments are made by many. It is part of the growth process. Sometimes to shock or laugh at. But to post? That is stupid.
What Disneyworld are these guys living in?
No one can force an attitude or outlook on another person, so all of our private opinions are our own. But there must be some good sense or filter to keep them from public dissemination and offense. Why were these guys not smart enough to understand?

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[> [> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
Jones
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Date Posted: 15:17:02 11/11/16 Fri

Get a step ladder and climb down off your high horse. The laws of physics and calculus don't change at these institutions. They are the same at Jones county community college. If Widget State accepted 6% of its applicants and charged outrageous amounts for tuition it would probably be thought of as elite.

What the graduate receives is not a limitless education but an access to the inbred circle of alumni who look to help their own. The great irony of the IVY LEAGUE is that the academics abhor athletics but THE IVY LEAGUE is a athletics conference and nothing more.

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[> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
Ivy Voyeur
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Date Posted: 10:20:05 11/11/16 Fri

Really, Diogenes, you aren't appalled by what they wrote?

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[> [> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
Diogenes (Ivy Voyeur)
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Date Posted: 10:41:25 11/11/16 Fri

Freedom of speech protects speech we dislike or with which we disagree. If freedom of speech protected only speech we like, there would be no freedom of speech. The greatest strength of our country is our tolerance and protection of offensive or repulsive speech.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
CU_88
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Date Posted: 11:55:27 11/11/16 Fri

Freedom of speech only applies to the government. The private university can do what they want to the wrestlers.

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[> [> [> Subject: You didn't answer his question


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 13:33:02 11/11/16 Fri


Yes or no?

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[> [> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
Columbia Fan
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Date Posted: 14:07:49 11/11/16 Fri

"What they wrote" implies this was published. This was a private group chat. One of the wrestlers is African American and I am sure there are various ethnicities and religions covered through the team.

There was no bullying or hate crime. It was ignorant immature humor that all of us have participated in during private conversations with our friends/teammates.

Being outlandish, brash, crass and painting exaggerated distorted caricatures in order to get a laugh is the bases of 90% of our comedic performers. This kids are sitting around a locker room and busty chops unfortunately they werent smart enough to realize a private chat can potentially not be private.

This is not a Richie Incognito situation where bullying was occurring.

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[> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
Bill (of rights)
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Date Posted: 10:24:21 11/11/16 Fri

How is this newspaper even allowed access to these messages?
It's either an invasion of privacy by snooping through someone else's phone, or one of the Columbia wrestlers sold out his team and purposefully leaked these messages. These texts should have never seen the light of day

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[> [> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 13:05:27 11/11/16 Fri

I would like to believe the conversations were intentionally snitched by someone inside their circle but the silicon valley in me knows that snoop tech exists and is in full force. Don't know about that particular app but I do know that filters catching hate speech among many other language intensive algorithms are implemented across the mobile app marketplace and the internet. It is a brave new world with big brother taking the form of sophisticated overwatch tech. Privacy and anonymity is an illusion and it will get much, much more powerful in the years to come.

The thought of artificial intelligence becoming as commonplace as the internet is something to fear.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
Tod Howard Hawks
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Date Posted: 17:59:25 11/11/16 Fri

Some of these comments may or may not be protected by the 1st Amendment; regardless, I would not want Donald Trump or David Duke to be a student at Columbia.

Tod Howard Hawks CC 66

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
Acob
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Date Posted: 22:49:42 11/12/16 Sat

Trump a Penn grad and Foehi decline any Knickerbocker opportunity.

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[> Subject: And now CU puts entire season on hold


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 16:47:50 11/14/16 Mon

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/15/sports/columbia-suspends-wrestling-season-lewd-text-messages.html?_r=0

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[> [> Subject: The Feminist Thought Police Strike Again


Author:
Diogenes
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Date Posted: 20:20:35 11/14/16 Mon


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[> [> [> Subject: Think of it this way...


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 05:53:51 11/15/16 Tue


I'd imagine that the schools that would have been fine with calling women c--ts and minorities comparable disparaging terms are punishing students for political speech.

The Ivies have it right.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: You have no right to say privately what you have a constitutional right to say publicly?


Author:
Diogenes
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Date Posted: 08:08:25 11/15/16 Tue

Let them speak and let them wrestle.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: You have no right to say privately what you have a constitutional right to say publicly?


Author:
Kevin
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Date Posted: 08:16:50 11/15/16 Tue

They have spoken. Their speech was found to be abhorrent and not representative of Columbia's values. In addition, due to their association with the university and the public nature of their statement, it has been deemed that their actions have caused harm to Columbia's reputation. Thus, they have been disciplined by their private university, which in no way violates any sort of constitutional amendment or right.

Stop defending these awful remarks. You have no legal or ethical leg to stand on.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Don't forget...


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 08:58:32 11/15/16 Tue


Dio still hasn't answered Ivy Voyeur's question above in this thread.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: You have no right to say privately what you have a constitutional right to say publicly?


Author:
Jefferson
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Date Posted: 09:12:05 11/15/16 Tue

It has been explained several times that they do not have the constitutional rights you seem to think they do.

Either post your reasoning for thinking they do have such rights, or let this go.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: what gives ?


Author:
Lion Rooter
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Date Posted: 10:59:47 11/15/16 Tue

Ok - they wrote some pretty bad stuff here. This is not what I would expect from an Ivy athlete, or any decent college's team. But isn't there an expectation of guilty or not guilty? Why is the whole team suffering?

Wrestlers are an intense bunch, the confidence that gives you the ability to compete in a tough rugged sport might also lead to some headstrong and un PC thoughts.

Also consider BWOG, this is a group with a definite anti-athletics stance - 2-3 years ago they said they would not comment on, or cover football at all. I wonder exactly how it played out that someone took personal messages and ran to BWOG with them. Is there not a distinct anti-athletics pervading all Ivies ? I am sure they were all to happy to try to bring down a team on campus. Bear in mind our beloved campus is the place where a certain lady carried a mattress around campus to make her point.

I'm sorry but while I find their language offensive, I find this rush to judgement a bit ridiculous.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: As I said earlier...


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 11:08:20 11/15/16 Tue


As I've said, the Ivies appear fine with political speech. True, some political speech is in better taste than others. But by and large, the Ivy schools aren't going to get all riled up about "FDT" or carrying a mattress around campus.

All that being said, what's political about what those guys and the Harvard guys wrote? What's the redeeming social value in calling women c--nts or minorities comparable derogatory terms?

To those who suggest that the women's teams do the same thing--maybe that's correct, maybe it isn't. And until one such women's team gets caught doing it, we can't know whether the reaction will be the same or not.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: New York Constitution, Section 8


Author:
Diogenes
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Date Posted: 11:36:38 11/15/16 Tue

"Every citizen may freely speak, write or publish his or her sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that right;"

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: New York Constitution, Section 8


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 11:47:32 11/15/16 Tue


So I can shout "fire" in a crowded theater in NY?

Threaten the president?

Defame someone with malice?

Fascinating...

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: New York Constitution, Section 8


Author:
Acob
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Date Posted: 12:34:45 11/15/16 Tue

Does or does not this private institution have the right to regulate its own affairs involving its students in house behavior?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: New York Constitution, Section 8


Author:
Lion Rooter
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Date Posted: 12:51:59 11/15/16 Tue

in advertising the standard hiring agreement says " You can be fired for any or no reason"

I am not disputing that the school has the right to censure and punish the team. I am suggesting that the current political climate on the average campus makes it appear that the school wants to bring on Draconian punishments - for a case that is not even settled yet !

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: and further


Author:
Lion Rooter
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Date Posted: 12:57:29 11/15/16 Tue

This "BWOG" outfit is filled with hypocrisy and have a double standard. I used to enjoy reading it until I realized that

a) the staff and readers love to put in comments - nasty, sexist, and derogatory - about anyone who attends Barnard

b) also fair game to insult and I quote "creepy old" GS students.

c) so it follows that they love to see a sports team brought down or "pinned" as you may say

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: New York Constitution, Section 8


Author:
Diogenes (Acob)
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Date Posted: 14:11:36 11/15/16 Tue

Not regarding private speech. Nor public speech except under very limited circumstances not here present.

Columbia is licensed and regulated by the State of New York. The Federal government heavily regulates Columbia and yearly provides Columbia, along with New York State, with hundreds of millions of dollars in grants, research funds, scholarships, tax breaks etc. The idea that Columbia is some sort of private "free actor" is not true--it is controlled, regulated, funded and directed in substantial part by The U.S. and New York governments (including the City of New York).

Are hidden microphones in locker rooms and dorms next?

By the way, men have been complaining about women, and women about men, for thousands of years.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: New York lawyers, I know you're out there


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 13:36:38 11/15/16 Tue

If every citizen is "responsible for the abuse of that right," does that mean the university can impose penalties for abuse?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: all I know is


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 14:40:38 11/15/16 Tue

until I had a daughter I probably acted the same way, good thing my son's first child was a daughter as well. Totally changes your perspective

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: all I know is


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 14:48:12 11/15/16 Tue

How long until she's at Trump dating age?

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Dumb move by the wrestlers to begin with


Author:
Harvard Crimson Rule!
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Date Posted: 18:01:59 11/15/16 Tue


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[> Subject: WaPo agrees suspending season appropriate


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 07:02:44 11/16/16 Wed


https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/take-away-columbia-wrestlers-singlets-but-make-them-wear-their-vile-words/2016/11/15/e2209d2c-ab5e-11e6-a31b-4b6397e625d0_story.html

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[> [> Subject: It's not the Post, it's Sally Jenkins


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 08:41:31 11/16/16 Wed

She's a contributor of opinion pieces.

She's also a continuing unapologetic defender of Lance Armstrong and Tom Brady.

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[> [> [> Subject: "The Feminist Thought Police Strike Again" Redux


Author:
Diogenes
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Date Posted: 14:16:02 11/16/16 Wed


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[> [> [> [> Subject: Evolve or die


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 15:45:17 11/16/16 Wed


The ship has sailed on this. Even Abilene Christian University isn't putting up with it.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/texas/2016/11/15/abilene-christian-university-west-texas-expels-2-students-blackface-video-sent-snapchat

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Darwinism is a tautology


Author:
Diogenes
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Date Posted: 19:12:15 11/16/16 Wed


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[> Subject: Re: Columbia cancels wrestling match after teamís vile tweets made public


Author:
Old Lion (resolution)
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Date Posted: 13:34:39 11/18/16 Fri

Uninvolved wrestlers will be permitted to compete; some upper class wrestlers are suspended for the season or for the semester depending upon level of culpability. Sounds like a fair result since all team members should not be penalized by actions of a few.

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