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Subject: Brown Columbia


Author:
Grin
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Date Posted: 16:04:22 11/19/16 Sat

If you were a Brown fan, it was not the way to end a season that was already disappointing. But if you were simply a fan of the ivy league football, and I am, you had to be happy for Columbia. Brown didn't lose this game; Columbia won it. Columbia did not shoot themselves in the foot and this was a major change. They took it to Brown from the get go and Brown had no answers. Yes, Estes was outcoached. But there was something even greater at work here, Columbia played like winners. C didn't give B's QB a chance to make 3rd down conversions. They were in his face and often that face was in the turf. In fact, the B QB was unable to come out for the 2nd half. When B did make a run in the 2nd half, Columbia made a stand. With the exception of Princeton, C was Brown's toughest foe this year. I know that C's record was a mere 3-7, but it could easily have been 7-3. They are young and they are talent, but more importantly they are starting to believe in themselves. I think today was a prelude of things to come. As for Brown, I don't know what to think. The team has gradually gone down hill. Estes tried really hard this year to inject a new sense of pride and enthusiasm, but it failed. Is a change needed? I think Estes still knows his football, but it is quite obvious that something is missing. At this point, I have a hard time seeing Estes ever challenging again. Perhaps someone else can chime in with greater insight.

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Replies:
[> Subject: Re: Brown Columbia


Author:
Brown Fan
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Date Posted: 16:16:31 11/19/16 Sat

I disagree, Grin. I saw a lot of positives for Brown this year, particularly given the playmakers and speed in the freshman class. Unlike past years, Brown played the freshmen and didn't suffer from a lack of team speed.

Today, Columbia's defense was terrific. In contrast, Browns offense struggled, particularly after Linta was hurt. Brown almost pulled to within 4 points in the 4th quarter, but for the imperfect pass that was just missed by Doles in the end zone.

Duncan has great feet, but it is unclear whether he is tall enough or has a strong enough arm to be a top Ivy qb. Certainly, he would require a different type of offense than Linta.

I'm hopeful for the future, particularly based on the freshman class, which filled the needs (particularly speed) that concerned Brown fans for a while. If Linta can turn into a quality qb, we should have a competitive team next year and an very good team in two years (I think Linta has 2 years of eligibility left).

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[> [> Subject: Re: Brown Columbia


Author:
Grin (Brown Fan)
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Date Posted: 20:07:12 11/19/16 Sat

The problem is, all the other teams are getting better. Brown has good freshman talent, but so do the other teams. I can never remember a time when there was so much freshman talent. As for Brown's future, I wish I could be as optimistic as you. Brown hasn't had a winning season in three years and has not won a championship since 2008. Since 2008 Estes' record has been average at best. I must say that this year he was more flexible than he has been in many years. But I just think an injection of new blood is needed. When coaches have been around a long time, they tend to get stale and predictable. It has happened to the best and I now see it happening to Estes. Perhaps I am wrong, but it has been a long time since Brown was a contender. Here is hoping I am wrong.

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[> Subject: Re: Brown Columbia


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 16:26:03 11/19/16 Sat

A pretty good signature win for the Lions. If they played that way all season it would be easier to say the program is looking up. I'm still not sold on the QB situation so we'll see what happens next year if they can keep the momentum going.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Brown Columbia


Author:
CU_88
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Date Posted: 16:37:40 11/19/16 Sat

If we played that way consistently all season we would have 3 or 4 more wins but its good to see that we played a complete game. BTW I do not remember a team going for a 42 yard field goal after starting on the 2 yard line.

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[> Subject: Re: Brown Columbia


Author:
Old lion (AP)
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Date Posted: 16:57:41 11/19/16 Sat

The AP headline is Brwom beats Columbia. Seriously. Maybe it will get fixed. The story got it right however.

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[> Subject: Congrats to Columbia, which seems to be headed in the right direction.


Author:
Bulldogs1234
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Date Posted: 23:02:57 11/19/16 Sat

Congrats to Columbia in their rebuilding season.

Look at the score charts. Columbia only suffered bad losses to Princeton and Penn, the Ivy League co-champions. Every other loss was merely within one score. It also seems like they have found their offensive footing near the end of the season. A competitive Columbia team is a good sign for the rest of the League.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Congrats to Columbia, which seems to be headed in the right direction.


Author:
Diogenes
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Date Posted: 23:10:26 11/19/16 Sat

Hear, Hear.

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[> Subject: Re: Brown Columbia


Author:
Boston Lion
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Date Posted: 00:00:24 11/20/16 Sun

I was at the game today to see the Lions get the job done convincingly. They kept on bringing it on both sides of the ball. The D really stepped up time and again, and the offense put it in gear for four quarters.

Every game, progress. Excellent way to cap off the season off, and promising trajectory for 2017. Congratulations, Lions players and coaches!

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[> [> Subject: Re: Brown Columbia


Author:
Old Lion (Finally)
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Date Posted: 09:10:03 11/20/16 Sun

We played a solid four quarters and did not have one lousy quarter meltdown that cost us a couple of wins this year. What impressed me yesterday was the lopsided time of possession and third down conversion stats. Brown was 2 for 15 on third down and only held the ball on offense for 24 minutes. And this was by far the best game that Anders Hill has played to date. As far as next year, we really had tremendous contributions from our first years, especially at the skill positions on offense and on the DL on defense.

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[> Subject: Re: Brown Columbia


Author:
counsellor
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Date Posted: 07:15:25 11/20/16 Sun

If Brown scores a TD from the Columbia 2 (first and goal) in the first 2 minutes of the game it is a different game....Brown needs to find somewhere a functioning QB..don't believe there is one on the roster...the pass defense was exposed once again in the finale....Brown was picked for 6th pre-season and ended up 4th....both lines will be solid next year..Livingstone Harriott will be the standout on offense next season...there will be enough receivers next season but no QB with the focus, judgment, pace, accuracy,etc. to rely upon to get them the ball...saw no evidence that the Coach lead to the disappointing year..it was about the "Johnnies and Joes"...good freshmen class this year and next September's also appears to be solid (with about 10 more slots to fill) - hope one is a stud QB who can play immediately...does Bagnoli ever not whine about any penalty call made against him or not made for him ( in his eyes)?...very stale....

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[> [> Subject: Re: Brown Columbia


Author:
Grin (Counsellor)
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Date Posted: 09:52:57 11/20/16 Sun

If Brown scores on their first possession it is a different game but I doubt that it is a different result. Columbia came to play yesterday. They didn't just beat Brown, they dominated on both sides of the ball. The only way it would have led to a different result is if it caused C to come unraveled. But yesterday they were a team on a mission. Brown wanted to win, but Columbia "had" to win. As for Brown, they have sold QBs in Linta and Duncan. The issue is the lines. Princeton's success this year was due to their excellent line play on both sides of the ball. When your lines dominate, as did C's yesterday, you win games. The other issue facing the Brown D is their inability to cover talented receivers. It happened last week and again this week. It is a question of speed. The fellow covering C's outstanding freshman receiver did not have the speed nor athleticism to stay with him. In his defense, few do. No substitute for athleticism and speed. Look at the NFL.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Brown Columbia


Author:
Brown Fan 1
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Date Posted: 10:12:47 11/20/16 Sun

All we do, every season, is make excuses for HCE and his staff.

This is real simple. He has lost his edge in recruiting, in player development, in innovative game planning and in connnecting with his players (his players are NOT just the captains).

Until change occurs Brown will be a mid-tier Ivy League program.

If that's okay with the Brown board her on Voy then that's fine but let's stop
covering for a diminished coach and program.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Brown Columbia


Author:
Brown Fan
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Date Posted: 10:39:38 11/20/16 Sun

Sorry, I saw lots of positives here. The offense became much more creative as the season passed and even developed a running game through more creative play calling and misdirection. The staff changed with the times by playing a lot more freshmen. I was disappointed in the play of the offensive line, but multiple members of the o-line were lost to injury during the season.

I do agree that the biggest problem over the last few years has been the inconsistent play at qb. We had terrific receivers but weren't able to make great use of them, missing them repeatedly, while open, over the course of the season. Linta may be the answer there; we shall see.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Brown Columbia


Author:
Old Lion (C receivers)
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Date Posted: 10:14:01 11/20/16 Sun

Wainwright had 150 yards yesterday. Last week one of the other first years, Smith, had 195 yards. Both have breakaway speed. Wainwright may be a little faster but Smith is quite a bit taller. And there is another first year receiver who is even bigger and probably should be moved to a receiving TE.

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[> Subject: Re: Brown Columbia


Author:
Boston Lion
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Date Posted: 14:08:54 11/20/16 Sun

A very key statistic: Columbia's first-years made no fewer than 9 out of 10 of the scores made in their last two games against Cornell (7 out of 7) and Brown (2 out of 3). Rational Ivy League fans would have to reason that that augurs well for the Lions' future.

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[> Subject: Re: Brown Columbia


Author:
sprainy
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Date Posted: 14:45:31 11/20/16 Sun

nice win. Lotsa frosh played, and looks like much more talent queued up to play next year. Sad coaches could have done more earlier with talent, but happy things improved especially on offense and talent burned through anyway. Here's to hoping CU is better next year and the play starts looking like real college football. Maybe one of the frosh QB's will get a real shot next year! And one can only hope for a all new O-Line.

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[> Subject: Re: Brown Columbia


Author:
Sr Punter (Estes)
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Date Posted: 17:14:05 11/20/16 Sun

I'm tired of the HCE bashing. He's not going anywhere and he shouldn't be going anywhere. Get over it.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Brown Columbia


Author:
Old Lion (Al's comments)
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Date Posted: 21:11:55 11/20/16 Sun

Post game: Hill played very well the last three weeks. Brown was the first complete game. Key to offensive I,prove,met was breakout of Smith as companion threat to Wainwright, along with redefining Wainwright's role and not asking him to do more than a true fist year should be asked to do. Very pleased with the growth and progress of the many first years who,saw significant playing time this year.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Brown Columbia


Author:
Grin (Sr. Punter)
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Date Posted: 23:01:59 11/20/16 Sun

There is nothing wrong with bashing Estes. He is a coach. When you choose to be a coach, you have to expect bashing. He has been a great coach for Brown for many years, but now it appears that he is in the sunset of his career. It happens. In fact, it is quite common. The coach is responsible for all aspects of the team, including recruiting, coaching, assistants, and game plan. Based solely on recent results, Estes is going backwards. To his credit he was much more flexible this year, but the results were disappointing. Sr. Punter, to validate your defence of Estes, you have to point to some metric that contravenes what has become the undeniable decline of Brown football.

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[> Subject: Re: Brown Columbia


Author:
Western Bear (What about Duncan)
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Date Posted: 01:31:39 11/21/16 Mon

All of this talk about Brown iand not a word about the fine play of Nick Duncan in what I believe was his first varsity game appearance. His running added a dimension which provided Brown a lift to almost change the momentum. It would be a shame if next season we didn't play both QBs in every game. Make teams prepare for both styles. Pray that Linta is not elected a team Captain because Estes seems very reluctant replace his Captain

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[> Subject: Re: Brown Columbia


Author:
Brown Bear Fan
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Date Posted: 01:28:06 11/23/16 Wed

Agree with Western Bear re: great game by Duncan and past reluctance to sit captains. Linta has 2 more years of eligibility btw. Brown frequently makes the QB a captain- that has proven difficult to manage if/when the QB struggles. Despite the disappointing season, one of the more encouraging aspects this season was how Estes and Sheehan a) were willing to go with freshmen (and not due to injury); and b) varied the offensive sets. Those 2 metrics alone vs previous seasons give some comfort. Substituting Duncan for Linta or vice-versa would add to that mix. I do not think Estes is in his sunset. He really likes his freshmen class and put many frosh+sophomores in important roles last season. He is building.

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