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Subject: Dartmouth


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 15:11:23 11/20/16 Sun
In reply to: holtsledge 's message, "quick post season observation" on 09:30:02 11/20/16 Sun


While I do agree that Dartmouth should be fine talent wise next year with the guys returning, we've got to get mentally tougher. Far too many lapses this season either in terms of execution or emotion.

Princeton may or may not have been physically better than us. But in the second half, they looked like they wanted it more. Ditto for Brown in the first half, and Columbia/Yale for most of the games.

Whoever next year's captains are for Dartmouth, they are going to have to make sure that the team is up for all 60 minutes of games.

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Replies:
[> [> Subject: Re: Dartmouth Talent Riding the Pine


Author:
Diogenes (Go Green)
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Date Posted: 15:26:09 11/20/16 Sun

All that talent on the bench couldn't beat out the starters that just went 1-6 Ivy.

First place to DFL in one year. Has that ever happened to any other Ivy team since 1956?

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[> [> [> Subject: They were injured, not second string


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 16:11:38 11/20/16 Sun


Sheesh.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Reversion to the Mean


Author:
Diogenes
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Date Posted: 17:05:01 11/20/16 Sun

Teevens returned to Dartmouth in 2005. His Ivy record since then: 1-6; 2-5; 3-4; 0-7; 2-5; 3-4; 3-4; 4-3; 5-2; 6-1; 6-1; 1-6.

36-48 Ivy in the last 12 years. Four winning Ivy seasons since 2005.

Lifetime record at Maine, Dartmouth, Tulane, Stanford and Dartmouth: 113-166-2.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Reversion to the Mean


Author:
Hanover Plain
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Date Posted: 09:32:16 11/21/16 Mon

Seriously, you know that Buddy has taken over a completely broken program everywhere he has been as a HC--five times as a HC at Maine, DArtmouth-2x, Tulane and Stanford.......and now he has TWICE taken Dartmouth from last place to Ivy Champs as a head coach.......and while he did not turnaround the Tulane and Stanford programs as quickly as "the brass" would have liked......those were very, very difficult challenges at the time. Looking at Buddy's lifetime W-L record clearly understates his value as a program (re)builder. With the current difficulties Dartmouth has recruiting against H-Y-P in terms of brand, financial aid packages and coaching salaries, I find it hard not to admire what he has done.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Reversion to the Mean


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 12:19:21 11/21/16 Mon

"while he did not turnaround the Tulane and Stanford programs as quickly as "the brass" would have liked...."

I don't mean to pile on the guy, and there may be various reasons, but wouldn't he have had to actually "turn it around" at either place to even begin considering whether a turn-around was as "quick" as the brass wanted?

At Stanford:

2002: 29
2003: 47
2004: 47

Immediately preceding him, Stanford's record was:
1999: 8-4
2000: 5-6
2001: 9-3


At Tulane:

1992: 29
1993: 48
1994: 110
1995: 29
1996: 29


Immediately preceding him, Tulane's record was:
1989: 4-8
1990: 4-7
1991: 1-10

Dio has some valid points.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Valid points


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 12:40:19 11/21/16 Mon


Only if you enjoy cherry picking.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Reversion to the Mean


Author:
Diogenes
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Date Posted: 12:57:47 11/21/16 Mon

I mistakenly transposed one of the Ivy numbers. In 2011 Teevens was 4-3 Ivy, not 3-4 Ivy. Thus, Teevens is 37-47 Ivy since 2005 and has 5 winning Ivy seasons in his last 12 years at Dartmouth.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: They were injured, not second string


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 17:33:49 11/20/16 Sun


Looking around for anyone who thinks that this year wasn't an aberration besides Dio...

*crickets*

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: They were injured, not second string


Author:
Harvard Crimson Rule!
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Date Posted: 18:56:52 11/20/16 Sun

Sprint did :)

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[> [> [> Subject: As for the freefall


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 16:21:18 11/20/16 Sun


Penn went from Ivy champ to 2-8 in two seasons in the very recent past. They responded with back to back championships.

I'm confident Dartmouth will likewise rebound.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: As for the freefall


Author:
foehi
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Date Posted: 19:55:33 11/20/16 Sun

that's because they got rid of a burned out Bagnoli

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: As for the freefall


Author:
Old,Lion (Al)
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Date Posted: 08:52:23 11/21/16 Mon

And he has only the nicest things to,say about you.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: As for the freefall


Author:
PennLB
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Date Posted: 11:25:00 11/21/16 Mon

Priore vs Bagnoli was not the difference
new DC and new OC were the difference

Priore was horrible as DC his last 2 years and offense was inconsistent at best with a young Torgerson

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[> [> Subject: Re: Dartmouth


Author:
Big green supporter
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Date Posted: 21:14:33 11/20/16 Sun

Just to set the record straight. Are you insinuating that the captains this year not keeping the team up for 60 minutes was the reason for this years results?
I hope not, because the young men who wore that "C" on their chest wre 3 seniors that played their hearts out this season. They were each integral parts of the 15 championship team last year and demonstrated significant character in the face of an awful season on behalf of the program.
These guys are no more responsible for this than any coach or any of the 115 other players on that roster. You win and lose as a team. Period.
Last year champ team had leaders all over the field in addition to the official captains. This years captains had the equivalent of herding cats with all of the young, inexperienced yet talented players on the two deep this season.

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[> [> [> Subject: take a deep breath everyone


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 22:04:45 11/20/16 Sun

we were competitive in most of the games

now breathe out

we were very young played a lot of sophs and JRs as well as a few impactful frosh

new QB after 3 1/2 yrs of DW

lost a few we should have won

shit happens

get over it

a few injuries and a lot of penalties sealed our fate

I owe a sleeve of ProV's to foehi and I will make good on my losing bet to jake to the Columbia FOF tmrow, I'm not stressing neither should any of you, plus I won two guess the attendances contests this yr so all is good

However we are all about to experience football withdrawal, so look inward and reorder your Xanax prescript bc the only thing we have left is our perceived All Ivy slights then it is nuclear winter

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[> [> [> Subject: Ok, I believe you


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 06:31:23 11/21/16 Mon


I'm not an insider. If you're telling me that this year's captains did everything possible to get the guys ready to play, I'll take your word for it.

I certainly have no issues with the way the captains themselves played as individuals.

All that being said, if we show up for games flat and keep doing things to hurt ourselves in 2017, we're not going to be at the top of the standings.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Dartmouth


Author:
voy vey
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Date Posted: 11:51:44 11/21/16 Mon

Per the author's request....submitted for discussion, without comment:


-----------

Subject: Like the Five Stages of Grief & Loss...
Author: Jack Hatfield (NexTitle19)
Date Posted: 06:41:17 07/01/16 Fri

...the journey of any losing football program on its way to annual championship contention involves overcoming what I call The 5 Biases of Opposing Fans, which are typically based on the same assumptions that most San Diego weathermen have: Tomorrow will be pretty much like yesterday. Herewith the 5 biases:

1. No way that team will have a winning record
2. No way that team finishes in the top half of the League
3. No way that team contends for the title this year
4. No way that team wins the title this year
5. No way that team reloads - it must rebuild!!

All 5 are rooted largely in conventional wisdom and outdated information.

Feel free to quote me next November when the post mortems are done.

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[> [> [> Subject: Dartmouth DID reload in 2016...


Author:
Jack Hatfield (Voy Vey: Oy Vey)
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Date Posted: 13:50:30 11/21/16 Mon

...about which you can ask UNH or Holy Cross, or Towson for that matter, but could not reload a second time after a prolific number of injuries struck an already young team before, early in and throughout the season. My earlier words will prove prophetic next fall when Reload Redux returns NexTitle20 to The Woods.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: According to Dio


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 14:30:42 11/21/16 Mon


There is no record of Dartmouth having played UNH, Holy Cross, or Towson this season.

My own humble opinion is that if Dartmouth had Perry and McManus, we would have had a few more W's. If they return back to normal in 2017 we will find out because they're going to be surrounded by pretty much the rest of the 2016 team.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Towson


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 17:39:26 11/21/16 Mon

Mighty 4-7 Towson, which gave away its chance to beat Dartmouth with not one but two blocked FG kicks in the final few minutes.

Honestly, bringing up Towson merely proves Dio's point.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Towson


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 17:57:43 11/21/16 Mon


Sagarin has them at one of the better OOC teams the Ivy faced, and would have placed them fourth in the Ivy.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Dartmouth DID reload in 2016...


Author:
LionFan
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Date Posted: 15:32:25 11/21/16 Mon

Who are these great players that were injured?

My guess is every team averages out to have the same number of injuries per season. I constantly hear the Yale faithful use injuries as their excuse and now the Big Green.

Every team has injuries and the top few each season are talented and deep enough to win despite them.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Go Green


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 18:04:35 11/21/16 Mon


Jackson Perry and Danny McManus were expected to be All-Ivy guys. They were injured early enough to qualify for an extra year if they choose to take it.

Other starters/contributors who missed games (some more than others) were Miles Smith, Ryder Stone, Kyle McKinney-Crudden, Bun Stratton, Micah Croom, Ross Wood, Jack Traynor, Zach Hussain, Rocco DiLeo, David Chalmbers, Colin Bolt, Charlie Miller, Darius George, Brian Fordon, Emmanuel Soto, and Houston Brown.

Jack and Holtsledge--did I overlook anyone?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I've made thousands of posts here...


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 18:11:20 11/21/16 Mon


First time I think I entered my handle in both boxes.

Long day. :)

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Dartmouth DID reload in 2016...


Author:
LionFan
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Date Posted: 19:14:13 11/21/16 Mon

Again, if you remember back to your playing days there are typically 1-3 starters that get dinged each game. Especially now with new heightened concussion protocols. They miss a game or two and come back. Each roster in the league could list 15-20 players that missed a game or two.

Half the kids you mentioned would have never been starters and missing a game with a sprained ankle certainly isn't news worthy.

I will bet last years Dartmouth injury list (games missed) was just as long. They were just a better/deeper team

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Not really.


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 19:17:12 11/21/16 Mon


The 2015 team was relatively injury free.

This year, 2011, and 1994 stand out as especially bad injury and/or suspension years for Dartmouth. All three teams finished below expectations.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Dartmouth


Author:
Grean Beans ((Go Green))
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Date Posted: 18:54:00 11/21/16 Mon

Starting linebacker Alex McCrory tore his ACL in the towson game

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Of course


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 19:14:40 11/21/16 Mon


I'm embarrassed for overlooking him. He probably had the worst injury of all of them.

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[> [> [> Subject: With that many injuries...


Author:
voy vey
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Date Posted: 21:09:18 11/21/16 Mon

...all I can conclude is: those tackling robots must hit back pretty hard.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: We upgraded the robots from a B2 to a B7


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 07:32:51 11/22/16 Tue


For the Twilight Zone fans out there.

:)

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[> [> [> Subject: relax guys


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 21:46:34 11/21/16 Mon

season is over

we didn't do as well as we hoped

Tigers were the best team in the league and they proved it Sat. Penn was the second best and Harvard the third and then then Brown Yale and Columbia, we only beat 1 ivy team and that was Cornell. Bad year move on (definitely not.org)

Let's look to the bright side, we were real young lotto talented players coming back and most of all after a long season covering the team BW finally gets a well deserved break to enable him to comfortably organize his paint brush collection, which I hear apparently is very extensive

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Sagarin has us at #4


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 06:03:17 11/22/16 Tue


Sagarin knows that we had a lot of injuries and were better than our record.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Poor GG


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 09:13:56 11/22/16 Tue

I think of him blasting off to his own Twilight Zone world every time I see those Rocket Mortgage ads. Always playing the lawyer.

"Sagrain knows we had injuries" - if GG means that Jeff Sagrin personally was following the Dartmouth injury situation, it's theoretically possible he might be right, although I doubt it. But oddly he has not, as far as anyone other than GG can tell, added an injury adjustment to his ranking formula - even more oddly, his system is sometimes criticized because it does NOT take injuries into account. Since, according to GG, he obviously follows Dartmouth - go figure.

But forget the ludicrosity (yes, I made that up, sue me) of his argument. Perhaps he has not realized that, by his logic, Mighty 4-7 Towson is better than Dartmouth because -SAGARIN SAYS SO!

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Outside of Lehigh, Fordham, and Colgate


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 10:17:03 11/22/16 Tue


Who was better than Towson on the Ivy's OOC schedule this season?

You can mock the Ivies for weak OOC teams. But you can find much, much better targets than Towson.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: And


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 10:31:36 11/22/16 Tue


And I'm glad you envision me playing the lawyer in Twilight Zone and not getting beaten to a pulp by a B7 like Lee Marvin.

:)

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: No


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 12:09:48 11/22/16 Tue

I envision you using legal skills to accomplish an end result as useful as that achieved by lawyer for Walter Bedeker in "Escape Clause."

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