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Subject: All Ivy Team Up


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 14:37:13 11/22/16 Tue


https://ivyleague.prestosports.com/sports/fball/2016-17/releases/Football_All-Ivy-_Rookie_of_the_Year-_Coach_of_the_Year_Announced

Hagdorn ROY. Surace COY.

Kind of surprised that some guys weren't unanimous. Hmmm...

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Replies:
[> Subject: Re: All Ivy Team Up


Author:
Old Lion (Milstein)
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Date Posted: 15:07:36 11/22/16 Tue

First year PK was unanimous choice. Really remarkable year with 12/13 in FGs, including some in miserable conditions, and perfect on PATs. Can't remember the last time a freshman was a unanimous choice, if ever.

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[> [> Subject: Re: All Ivy Team Up


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 15:20:06 11/22/16 Tue


Only freshman I can think of who might have been unanimous was Chuck DiBilio.

But if I had to guess, I don't think he was.

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[> Subject: Re: All Ivy Team Up


Author:
Floridared
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Date Posted: 15:32:50 11/22/16 Tue

Congrats to Cornell's 4-time winner Chris Fraser and fellow first teamers Chris Walker and Nick Gesualdi.

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[> Subject: Re: All Ivy Team Up


Author:
Grin and Bear it (Unanimous)
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Date Posted: 16:06:39 11/22/16 Tue

Of course, there are too many selections. The honorable mention is really the third team. Call it that and let it be. Agree with GG that it is very odd that several players were not unanimous. For example, Jarvis, Holuba, Orimolade, Twyman and Rea. Someone didn't vote first team for at least some of these worthies? Makes me wonder about the people voting. At any rate, I think that overall they got it right. I am specifically happy that Surace was selected COY. Princeton had the best offense and the best defense. Good Job, Surace!

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[> [> Subject: Fraser, too


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 16:42:13 11/22/16 Tue


He's the best punter I can remember seeing in the Ivy.

Punter is a tough job to crack in the NFL, but I hope he gets a shot.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Fraser, too


Author:
Cornell '97
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Date Posted: 18:21:16 11/22/16 Tue

Fraser has been scouted extensively, hope he gets a NFL opportunity.

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[> Subject: I think it was


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 16:40:38 11/22/16 Tue

"Janet" Reno

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[> Subject: POY guesses?


Author:
Harvard Crimson Rule!
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Date Posted: 22:46:52 11/22/16 Tue

John Lovett

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[> Subject: Re: All Ivy Team Up


Author:
Brown Bear Fan
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Date Posted: 01:19:50 11/23/16 Wed

A decent list overall. A bit biased in favor of players on the top 3 teams...but to the victors go the spoils.

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[> Subject: Re: All Ivy Team Up


Author:
foehi
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Date Posted: 11:01:43 11/23/16 Wed

11 of 14 Penn All Ivys return

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[> [> Subject: You're going to need them


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 12:38:32 11/23/16 Wed


Torgeson is graduating. Who is the expected replacement?

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: You're going to need them


Author:
foehi
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Date Posted: 16:41:36 11/23/16 Wed

I don't know. He's obviously a big loss.

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[> [> [> Subject: New Canaan's own


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 16:50:02 11/23/16 Wed

Mike Collins although a frosh he was the first guy in when they took "Squarehead" Togerson out
at least "elementary my dear" Watson returns and as someone said on another thread he is the best player in the league, another one of the many players that the "little Sicilian" played the Wharton card in recruiting

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: New Canaan's own


Author:
AsiaSunset
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Date Posted: 17:52:07 11/23/16 Wed

Correct. Penn has the challenge of replacing a starting QB. Dartmouth has the challenge of having its QB return 😀

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: How challening for Dartmouth


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 17:55:42 11/23/16 Wed


Heneghan *did* lead the league in passing. That's good enough to get you the Bushnell some years.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: How challening for Dartmouth


Author:
Asiasunset
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Date Posted: 18:01:09 11/23/16 Wed

Led the league in yardage because he had more attempts than anyone else. Also threw more pics.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: How challening for Dartmouth


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 18:12:01 11/23/16 Wed

Dartmouth tied for 4th in yards per passing attempt, 4th in yards per completion, 6th in passing TDs.

http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/sports/fball/2016-17/stats/enhanced/teams?sort=pypg&r=0&pos=pas

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: How challening for Dartmouth


Author:
AsiaSunset
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Date Posted: 18:23:10 11/23/16 Wed

Calvin - Dartmouth threw the ball more than anyone else as they were constantly chasing in the 4th Q. That's what 1-6 teams do.

These yards are often referred to as garbage yards. They have little meaning.

Maybe he'll be better next year but he was a lower tier Ivy QB this year.

The kid at Cornell also had a lot of garbage yards, but I think he looks like he has real talent - just not sure the rest of their team will be ready to ride him.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: How challening for Dartmouth


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 18:46:30 11/23/16 Wed

I believe my post was supportive of your (perceived) thesis that most passing yards does not necessarily mean most effective passing game.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: just a word of caution Asia


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 21:06:24 11/23/16 Wed

Yeah "on again off again" Heneghan had his ups and downs as evidenced by his nickname but I think that bodes well for next year. Especially since your guy a very talented but green soph might have some growing pains since he played maybe 10 snaps. Meanwhile our guy played just about every snap and has IMHO the best returning receiving corps in the league a solid 2 deep at three spots including the ROY the texas tornado Hunter Hagdorn not to mention 3 top RB's. Dartmouth will be dangerous but at the moment Princeton is the fav.

Kill the beast and drink it's blood

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: just a word of caution Asia


Author:
foehi
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Date Posted: 21:56:05 11/23/16 Wed

nobody else has the best receiving corps as long as Watson is around. NFL bound.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: ah


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 08:41:22 11/25/16 Fri

who's going to throw him the ball ole buddy?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Wasn't all his fault


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 08:44:13 11/24/16 Thu


Had Dartmouth's receivers caught well-thrown balls in the end zone, we would have been 6-4, 3-3.

And I think we have different definitions of "garbage yards."

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Oh boy, shoulda, coulda, woulda


Author:
Penn Nation
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Date Posted: 09:33:25 11/24/16 Thu

We coulda been a contender....not.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Oh boy, shoulda, coulda, woulda


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 10:44:11 11/24/16 Thu

I was wondering how long until Green made this argument.

Obviously no other teams had out of the norm miscues in critical situations, which makes it easy to figure out Dartmouth's real record after adjustmemt.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: By Asia's reasoning


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 07:50:14 11/25/16 Fri


Archie Manning was a mediocre quarterback.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Wasn't all his fault


Author:
AsiaSunset
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Date Posted: 09:37:28 11/24/16 Thu

You mean the best receiving corp in the league was responsible for 1-6

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Wasn't all his fault


Author:
CU_88
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Date Posted: 10:10:18 11/24/16 Thu

Since the offensive staff was fired/demoted after the 1-6 record we know whose fault it is .

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Wasn't all his fault


Author:
Asiasunset
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Date Posted: 10:48:05 11/24/16 Thu

Penn also returns Pearson who was 2nd team All Ivy

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Not what he said


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 10:13:30 11/24/16 Thu


Holtsledge said "best returning receiving corps."

As far as depth/experience is concerned, its hard to argue otherwise. In the final three games, we only had one bad drop (Thompson muffed one against Princeton).

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Not what he said


Author:
CU_88
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Date Posted: 10:32:45 11/24/16 Thu

The Columbia pair (Wainwright/Ronald Smith II) has the potential to be up their if the continue to improve. Clearly the Penn WR is the best in the league.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: actually my favorite cheer


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 10:14:38 11/24/16 Thu

at a local HS hockey game when the opposing goalie gives up one is

"it's all your fault, it's all your fault"

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Wasn't all his fault


Author:
Amoney
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Date Posted: 11:39:11 11/24/16 Thu

Not sure what you consider 'a well thrown ball', but of those catchable, the ROY had three no catches. The ROY probably had 50% of the targets and the rest went the other 5 or 6 first line receivers. His team leading catches and yards put only one TD in the books. That's a red flag in my book. I'd reserve opinion on D receiver group until the new staff has an opportunity to put them on the field. Believe the talent is there, just need to eliminate the 'garbage' and run an offensive scheme that can spread the defense and focus on getting the ball across the goal line.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: How challening for Dartmouth


Author:
Big Green watcher (QB talk)
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Date Posted: 12:13:35 11/24/16 Thu

I noticed Heneghan lead the win versus UNH. Dartmouth lost close games to Yale, Harvard and Columbia. Final drives to win or tie came up short. They rarely gained garbage yards. Heneghan has a lot of poise and talent; he improved as the year went on and handled Princeton in the 1st half. Heneghan's passing and running put him ahead of Banks. By the numbers certainly. Either way, not lower tier - unless I'm missing something.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: How challening for Dartmouth


Author:
CU_88
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Date Posted: 18:21:05 11/23/16 Wed

Its hard to get the Bushnell on a 1-6 Ivy team. I believe Witkowski did it in 1983 but I am not sure if anyone else on the last place team has done it since. The Penn/Princeton QB's were far superior and I would put the Cornell QB above Henegham.

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[> [> Subject: Re: All Ivy Team Up


Author:
Tiger81
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Date Posted: 12:45:53 11/23/16 Wed

Wow, that is a lot!

Princeton has 7 of 18 all-Ivy players returning assuming Kanoff exercises his medical red shirt option. I'm hoping there are a few more James Gales type of players on Princeton's LB and receiver depth charts where the Tigers are losing 3 players from each position group. Gales had never started a game until this year and was named first team All-Ivy.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: All Ivy Team Up


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 14:36:38 11/23/16 Wed

This is where Surace's offense makes things interesting. It requires so many rotating players to run it well (i.e. this year) that there is always some returning experience, but the mix can be tricky. Having both QBs back would reduce the risk dramatically, especially if all the injured linemen can return. If they can start with 80% of this year's playbook intact, the rest of the league's in trouble.

On the defensive side, the Tiger front seven were hugely deep, it's the backfield that causes some concern, seemingly like always.

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[> Subject: Re: All Ivy Team Up


Author:
Jerrylh
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Date Posted: 13:45:21 11/23/16 Wed

There is in Fossati and Percival (both LBs). Both are potential all-ivy next year, particularly Fossati who played behind Catarius and was probably almost as good.

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[> [> Subject: QUESTION


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 17:34:55 11/23/16 Wed

Percival withdrawing from school last year does that mean he gets the extra year or not?

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: QUESTION


Author:
Jerrylh
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Date Posted: 05:16:59 11/24/16 Thu

My understanding is that he was a sophomore this year and his eligibility was that of a sophomore. He should have two more years.

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