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Subject: Army Bowl Bound


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 12:13:34 12/05/16 Mon

Army qualified for a bowl game with North Texas in the Zaxby's Heart of Dallas Bowl. Whoopee!

They were able to count victories over low tier FCS programs Lafayette (62-7) and Morgan St.(60-3) as two of the required six victories to qualify for a bowl bid. Army is benefiting from a new provisional NCAA rule which allows for two FCS qualifiers rather than the normal one if there is a shortage of qualifying FBS teams to fill all the available bowls.

If the NCAA is that desperate to qualify FBS teams for their many "Bowls" they should be amenable to allowing the Ivy League to also count as bowl qualifiers for FBS teams. The Ivy League should seize the initiative to get bowl qualifying status for the Ivy League and then schedule historic FBS rivals like Army and UConn accordingly.

After all, an Army win over an Ivy League opponent should mean more to a bowl committee than a win over Morgan State (3-8) or Lafayette((2-9).

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Replies:
[> Subject: Ivys will never play bowl games


Author:
remember it well (Son of Eli)
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Date Posted: 13:01:29 12/05/16 Mon

There is no motivation for the Ivy admins to do anything other than maintain the status quo. Most alums and students are apathetic regarding changes and the few who care will continue to diminish in number. Those Ivy prexies who over the years were the staunch advocates of the Ivy's de-emphasis of football can see what their ideals have wrought and say "mission accomplished."
Those of us who would like to see Ivy teams play FBS schools have to accept the fact that such policies as no athletic scholarships, academic indexing, no tackling practices, no red-shirtting, kick offs from the 40 yd line are not the way major college football is played. The Ivys are trapped within their own ideals - as admirable as those ideals may be.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Ivys will never play bowl games


Author:
Diogenes (remember it well)
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Date Posted: 13:17:51 12/05/16 Mon

All true. However, don't lose sight of the fact that young men are still playing football at Ivy schools. That's a good thing for those young men because they will learn more valuable lessons from playing football than from the politically correct infestations afflicting the Ivies.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivys will never play bowl games


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 14:04:26 12/05/16 Mon

I, for one, will not worry about never getting a bid to the Quick Lane Bowl, the Auto Nation Cure Bowl, the Dollar General Bowl, the Camping World Independence Bowl, or the Motel 6 Bowl (how many people can identify where those games are played?)

I think they got the right 4 teams for the CFP, assuming you want the best teams and not the "most deserving" teams, whatever that is. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/sorry-penn-state-the-four-best-teams-got-in-to-the-college-football-playoff/

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivys will never play bowl games


Author:
florida lion
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Date Posted: 13:32:14 12/13/16 Tue

At least one Ivy team has won the Rose Bowl,

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivys will never play bowl games


Author:
florida lion
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Date Posted: 20:22:04 12/13/16 Tue

I researched further--two Ivy teams have won the Rose Bowl. Likely a good trivia question.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Ivys will never play bowl games


Author:
Defense Lover
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Date Posted: 14:26:44 12/05/16 Mon

Agree but would not include the no tackling practices. That's one that will evolve into standard practice for all, or the game will disappear.

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[> Subject: Re: Army Bowl Bound


Author:
Eastern Sports Fan
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Date Posted: 15:56:08 12/05/16 Mon

Agree with concept. Would do no harm academically or otherwise to start season one week earlier and plug in non-league contest in week 4 or 5 as an 11th game subject to NCAA recognition of bowl game count to interest FBS teams. Of course, devil is in the details with scheduling. And it makes no sense to play an FBS game in an opener unless you just want some guarantee cash and a lot of injuries.

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[> Subject: Missing the point?


Author:
voy vey
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Date Posted: 15:58:17 12/05/16 Mon

The original post wasn't talking about Ivies PLAYING IN BOWLS, yet many of the responses seem to be referencing that.

The OP suggested that the Ivies seek approval to have games against them count for FBS team's bowl eligibility. And I wholeheartedly agree.

At the very least, games against Ivy teams should count in the event that two FCS wins are needed to qualify an FBS team for eligibility. That would be a small but measurable first step.

I know it won't happen, so it's mostly off-season discussion fodder, but the original point remains: how does beating Morgan State make an FBS team more "bowl-worthy" than beating an Ivy?

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[> [> Subject: Re: Missing the point?


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 19:09:46 12/05/16 Mon

I understood, but I figured if it's OK to turn every thread into a comparison of Dartmouth 4th string freshmen WRs, then this response was pretty much right down Broadway.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Ivies Playing in Bowls


Author:
Randy California
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Date Posted: 19:58:50 12/05/16 Mon

One year ago, Yale's AD went on record supporting a bowl for the Ivy League.

Although San Diego recently enjoyed a first round playoff win, I think the Pioneer would prefer a non-scholarship championship over the playoffs. That means a game against the Ivy winner.

In the meantime, I'm looking forward to the USD-Princeton game. Sept 16 may have more that one Ivy-PFL match.

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[> [> [> Subject: A New Gridiron Classic


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 20:27:04 12/05/16 Mon

From 2006-2009 the Pioneer League champion played the NEC champion played each other in the "Gridiron Classic." I would prefer for the Ivy League to participate in the FCS playoffs, but a new Gridiron Classic pitting the Ivy League champs against the Patriot League champs would be better than no post season. San Diego, Dayton and Drake are all good programs and the latter two have proud football histories that rival some of the Ivies.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: A New Gridiron Classic


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 21:21:42 12/05/16 Mon

I meant the Pioneer League Champs, not the Patriot League champs.

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[> Subject: Re: Army Bowl Bound


Author:
remember it well (voy vey/Son of Eli)
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Date Posted: 16:25:29 12/05/16 Mon

You're right. My heading should simply have been "Ivys will never change".

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[> Subject: Re: Army Bowl Bound


Author:
Bob S
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Date Posted: 21:10:55 12/05/16 Mon

Mollie Marcoux AD at Princeton made a similar statement last year. Here is what football at Cornell has devolved to recently: Many of the fans are friends and family of the players and/or the band with a smattering of local fans like myself. Its almost a youth football vibe save for the annual homecoming game at Cornell. Such is the state of deemphasis at least at Cornell.

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[> Subject: Re: Army Bowl Bound


Author:
Sprint66
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Date Posted: 21:55:33 12/05/16 Mon

I support an Ivy League Bowl game at Florida Alantic University's stadium which is perfect for our league at about 29K capacity, as we wouldn't want to play in some 70K stadium. Finish the season like we always do, then limit the teams to 6-8 practices so they don't conflict with final exams. Play the game over the holiday week. That's the biggest issue with the Ivy presidents as they don't want conflicts with exams. Play a top opponent that didn't go to the FCS playoffs from the Patriot, Pioneer, or CAA. Forget about FBS opponents, focus on academically minded FCS programs. Princeton would get the tie breaker this year.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Army Bowl Bound


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 22:25:24 12/05/16 Mon

I think the best match-ups under Sprints proposal would be Princeton-Fordham or Princeton-Dayton. Both sound like good match-ups.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Army Bowl Bound


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 22:32:09 12/05/16 Mon

Or Princeton-Albany. Massey ratings predicts Princeton would win all three games. All would be close with Albany being the closest.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Stadium


Author:
Randy California
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Date Posted: 01:30:08 12/06/16 Tue

FAU would be great if they could sell that manu tickets. At about half the seating capacity, Municipal Stadium in Daytona Beach would be a better bet for filling the stands.

Unless Stetson or JU is playing, I doubt attendance would push 10,000. I would see this as a made for TV event.

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[> [> Subject: Too Late for Game at FAU


Author:
John Harvard
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Date Posted: 13:24:07 12/07/16 Wed

Too Late!

This year's Boca Bowl at FAU will pit Memphis and Western Kentucky on December 20th. Last year, Toledo defeated Temple.

This is an FBS bowl, first played in 2014.

Reminds me of the thread speculating about who might be named Harvard's 2017 football captain, a thread that was launched the day after Harvard announced Luke Hutton had been chosen.

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[> [> [> Subject: Not Too Late


Author:
Randy California
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Date Posted: 20:11:03 12/07/16 Wed

I believe we're talking about years down the road. Probably after Morehead State returns to Ohio Valley Conference football, x years from now. Plenty of venues would be available on any given Saturday. Daytona Beach, site of a FCS all-star game last weekend, might be the most appropriate.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Not Too Late


Author:
John Harvard
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Date Posted: 22:01:45 12/08/16 Thu

The average Boca resident doesn't have that long to wait.

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[> Subject: Re: Army Bowl Bound


Author:
Old Eli
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Date Posted: 03:38:02 12/06/16 Tue

With all due respect, I think a neutral site game in Florida between the Ivy Champ and an academically strong, non-scholarship FCS time would be lucky to draw 2,000. That game would be highly insignificant. I'd rather see eligibility for the FCS playoffs.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Army Bowl Bound


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 09:12:24 12/06/16 Tue

Sounds right to me.

We don't need more camera panning of empty stadium games for the world to see.

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[> [> [> Subject: empty seats ...


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 09:51:18 12/06/16 Tue

... you mean like those at most FCS "playoff" games?

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: empty seats ...


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 10:41:15 12/06/16 Tue

That draw more than most ivy games, so we should probably avoid playing those too.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: empty seats ...


Author:
Cu_88
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Date Posted: 18:42:10 12/06/16 Tue

The ivy games may outdraw the NY Jets.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Jets' Fitzpatrick Conundrum


Author:
Diogenes
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Date Posted: 20:39:05 12/06/16 Tue

Which is worse: receivers dropping on-target Fizpatrick passes; or, Fitzpatrick missing wide-open receivers.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Jets' Fitzpatrick Conundrum


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 02:45:05 12/07/16 Wed

what is worse is the fact that they re-signed him at all, allowed him to hold out instead of cutting him.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Jets' Fitzpatrick Conundrum


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 12:59:24 12/07/16 Wed

And in the process of re-signing, still managed to maximize negative value with other players before later signing him for his original asking price anyway.

https://theringer.com/ryan-fitzpatrick-new-york-jets-deal-by-the-numbers-nfl-332a27dcfd10#.34rzw3rap

At least it's only for 1 year (OK, technically, for 4 more games to sit on the bench).

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Jets' Fitzpatrick Conundrum


Author:
NYCblue
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Date Posted: 20:31:54 12/08/16 Thu

The Jets are a mess.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: empty seats ...


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 21:28:58 12/06/16 Tue

Ivy defenses probably outhit Jets defenders, but not NJ police.

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[> Subject: Re: Army Bowl Bound


Author:
Sprint66
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Date Posted: 18:50:34 12/06/16 Tue

I disagree as there are tens of thousands Ivy League alums who live in Florida. Hey if you guys have a better plan. Problem with the FSC playoffs is teams end up playing like 16 games and it's nearly impossible to keep your team healthy through that stretch. It's not like the NFL where they can claim talented players off waivers to fill their rosters.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Army Bowl Bound


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 21:31:20 12/06/16 Tue

I'm sorry but this is crazy talk. Players on waivers are by definition marginal at best, and NFL rosters are much smaller than colleges, even ivies.

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[> Subject: Ivies in the FCS Playoffs


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 02:54:57 12/07/16 Wed

The bowl system is too cluttered as it is with too many irrelevant games. You have to remember the only reason bowls exist is for the payout to the schools in exchange for fan tourists and TV advertising and broadcasting revenue. Even U Louisiana Lafayette would attract more fans to a bowl game than an ivy program would.

There have been a few seasons where it would have been much more preferable to see an ivy team that is ranked to get into the FCS playoffs. There have been some Penn and Harvard teams over the years that might have fared pretty well.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Ivies in the FCS Playoffs


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 21:26:28 12/07/16 Wed

Neither Harvard nor Penn fans would stream to the heartland for a New Year's Eve clash with Northeast South Dakota State.

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[> [> [> Subject: Welcome back, O


Author:
voy vey
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Date Posted: 11:40:19 12/08/16 Thu

Anything interesting happen since 11/18?

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivies in the FCS Playoffs


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 23:25:19 12/08/16 Thu

No fans need make the trek for a game. FCS playoff is not really about the revenue (many strong programs do not draw well). I was thinking more for the teams to see how far they can take their season. We all know the IL argument against playoff participation but I don't agree with it. If an ivy team is qualified for an invite then they should pursue it.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivies in the FCS Playoffs


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 00:24:30 12/09/16 Fri

I don't agree with your not agreeing.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: I agree Al


Author:
Old Tiger
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Date Posted: 12:10:35 12/09/16 Fri


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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivies in the FCS Playoffs


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 13:59:15 12/10/16 Sat

I don't think fans in the Dakotas care whether ivy fans show up, they will gladly take up any available seats.

Fun game being played now between NDSU and SDS.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: To your point ---


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 14:26:19 12/10/16 Sat

Why should non-caring Ivy fans traipse out to north, east, south, west or central Dakota on Christmas Eve simply because the Dakotans themselves care?

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivies in the FCS Playoffs


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 14:43:42 12/10/16 Sat

Doesn't matter whether they do or not, and you are free to stay home. But your parochial views about what interests you do not apply to others.

Also, you're assuming an ivy team would play a Dakota in their place. Other games today are being played in Virginia, Ohio, and Washington; one of next week's semifinals will be played in Virginia and the other one might be played in Virginia, or Georgia.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: With your permission ...


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 15:01:06 12/10/16 Sat

I am ready to stay home from all those places on Christmas Eve .... and you know what? I think virtually all Ivy football fans - except for yourself and a few fellow posters here - feel exactly the same way,

The number of post-season games should be REDUCED rather than increased. We only need 4 bowl games, and ZERO "playoffs" by the pathetic FCS schools.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Interesting


Author:
remember it well
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Date Posted: 15:12:03 12/10/16 Sat

So you think your Crimson alma mater is "pathetic"? Well I suppose that's something you have in common with a lot of Yalies.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Ha ha ha ha


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 15:28:18 12/10/16 Sat


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[> [> [> [> Subject: FCS playoffs is for benefit of the players


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 03:15:53 12/11/16 Sun

The Dakotas have strong teams and their fans have limited entertainment options - they have no choice but to be interested regardless of who their team is playing.

There are plenty of east coast teams that could potentially make it to the playoffs that would make exciting foes for a top Ivy team any given season. Delaware, Towson, Maine, Furman, Charleston Southern, even a rematch with Lehigh. Why should the players be denied an extra game or two if the team is deserving. It's not like an Ivy program can crack the playoff bracket easily anyway.

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[> [> [> Subject: James Madison Went to the Dakotas and won


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 08:12:31 12/17/16 Sat


http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/james-madison-ends-five-time-defending-champ-north-dakota-states-fcs-reign-in-semis/

Attendance was 18,282, which is a virtual sellout.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Ivies in the FCS Playoffs


Author:
Gp
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Date Posted: 19:53:25 12/10/16 Sat

The playoffs are not for the fans. The playoffs are for the players to measure themselves. If you don't understand this, it is hard to believe that you were ever an athlete of any worth.

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[> [> [> Subject: Oh come on ....


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 21:43:40 12/10/16 Sat

Who needs to "measure themself" against Northeast South Dakota State in order to prove their worth?

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Oh come on ....


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 03:28:37 12/11/16 Sun

Observer, you should take a glance at the Dakota programs. They are powerhouses. North Dakota State is so good they beat every FBS team they play. South Dakota State (the Jackrabbits) are entertaining as well. They all put up big numbers. They even get good ESPN ratings.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: But...


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 03:31:49 12/11/16 Sun

It looks like the South Dakota Coyotes had a better season this year than the Jackrabbits.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Alas


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 09:12:08 12/11/16 Sun

Demonstrated excellence against quality opppnents has never been Big 0's concern.

Rather, the only pertinent test is whether a location is worthy of receiving his presence.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Oh come on ....


Author:
remember it well
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Date Posted: 12:53:39 12/11/16 Sun

His other pertinent test is the convenience of getting to the bathrooms and the width of the sidelines.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Some factors outweigh others


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 14:09:57 12/11/16 Sun

Most Ivy fans wouldn't book a trip to Northeast South Dakota State even IF they had better potties and sightlines that the Yale "Bowl"

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Some factors outweigh others


Author:
remember it well
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Date Posted: 14:16:13 12/11/16 Sun

"even IF" implies you are now using Yale as the gold standard.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: You misunderstand; I assume Northeast South Dakota State may have great potties


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 17:29:02 12/11/16 Sun

The point is that even IF Northeast South Dakota State has great potties and sightlines, sane Ivy fans would STILL rather settle for the depressing Yale "Bowl", with all its faults, rather than fly off to the middle of nowhere for a meaningless football game. Comprende?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Some factors outweigh others


Author:
remember it well
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Date Posted: 17:39:12 12/11/16 Sun

Oh yes, of course, how could I have possibly missed that as your point.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivies in the FCS Playoffs


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 01:50:15 12/14/16 Wed

There is nothing to be gained by a trip to the Dakotas in winter. Fans could watch it on some form of television coverage. The players however, would love the experience.

But as I have pointed out, the likelihood of playing a Dakota team in the first round would be unlikely. It would be a manageable game to get to. ...and despite the curmudgeon opinions to the contrary, a fine way for the players to wrap up the season.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivies in the FCS Playoffs / I can't understand why...


Author:
voy vey
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Date Posted: 09:10:25 12/14/16 Wed

...the seemingly-simple solution hasn't been instituted:

Make Ivy participation in the playoffs optional.

Each year, by a certain date, each institution must declare whether or not they would accept a playoff bid, should one be extended. One vote per school, handled as they see fit (presumably hierarchical, with players, coaches, AD and President, in ascending order, voting yay or nay).

Those who choose not to participate, don't have to. Those who would like to, can.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Breathtakingly simple, but


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 10:05:29 12/14/16 Wed

we all know why it won't be adopted. It means loss of control.

Plus Harvard could claim that this approach undermines their recruiting when players know they, alone, won't be going to any playoffs, and is contrary to the ivy agreement to have a level playing field. Now I know that is akin to arguing you cannot be penalized for your own blockheadedness, but it's not like we haven't seen this attitude before.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Breathtakingly simple, but


Author:
Eastern Sports Fan
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Date Posted: 16:37:27 12/14/16 Wed

Suspect Walter Camp and Percy Haughton would have made a deal where the loser of The Game had to go to Montana for post-season to annually fight descendants of Sitting Bull. Makes sense; Custer had a company commander named Reno.

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