VoyForums

VoyUser Login optional ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 12345678910 ]
Subject: Ivy League football and the FCS playoffs


Author:
Jerrylh
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 13:18:07 12/29/16 Thu

There have been past threads on whether the Ivy League champions should be allowed to play in the FCS playoffs.
Consider this. Lehigh beat Princeton handily. Lehigh received an invite to the playoffs and lost to the University of New Hampshire in the first round 64-21. The University of New Hampshire then played James Madison in the second round and was beaten 55-21.
I have been watching the semifinals of the FCS playoffs and I must tell you that these teams are just light years better than anyone in the Ivies. I recently watched James Madison beat North Dakota state (the team who beat Iowa).

Did any of you see these games?? What did you think??

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League football and the FCS playoffs


Author:
old blue
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 14:08:05 12/29/16 Thu

gentlemen; to this i say hogwash the indians beat the wildcats and only won one ancient eight contest.the real issue is participation by the ancient eight in the playoffs and let the chips fall where they may.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League football and the FCS playoffs


Author:
Son of Eli (to Jerry)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 15:53:17 12/29/16 Thu

Consider this, Yale and Princeton both beat Colgate in 2015. Yale and Princeton were middle of the pack Ivy league teams. Colgate ended up winning two games in the FCS playoffs against the same New Hampshire and James Madison schools you reference.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League football and the FCS playoffs


Author:
sparman
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 16:42:45 12/29/16 Thu

Usually a mistake to use early season results as a measure of end of season performance level.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League football and the FCS playoffs


Author:
IvySportsJunkie
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 17:06:36 12/29/16 Thu

Even if the Ivy representative(s) happen to lose in the first or second round of FCS playoffs, it still is exciting for all players involved. The Ivies typically do not last long in NCAA championships in basketball, baseball, or soccer, but it still is a great reward to the players and provides life long memories.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League football and the FCS playoffs


Author:
old blue
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 19:09:50 12/29/16 Thu

gentlemen; interesting tidbit attendance at wildcat and engineer playoff game was 2240.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League football and the FCS playoffs


Author:
Calvin
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 19:00:01 12/29/16 Thu

The first round in basketball has frequently been an awful mismatch (not so much in recent years) but that never stopped the IL from participating.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League football and the FCS playoffs


Author:
Al's Wingman
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 20:42:51 12/29/16 Thu

It really depends on the matchup. Sometimes you get a beatable opponent and sometimes you get a James Madison or some team that rolls over you. No predicting that.

I still think it would be a great experience for the players to make the league playoff eligible and they should allow it.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Want the experience of playing North Dakota State?


Author:
Randy California
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 21:20:40 12/29/16 Thu

They'll schedule you during the regular season. No questions asked.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League football champ should be allowed to compete.


Author:
Sprint66
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 23:36:58 12/29/16 Thu

I have not been a fan of the FCS playoffs, however, since the end of the Ivy League football season Cornell basketball has played in 10 games, most of which were road contests. So the argument the FCS playoffs is a conflict with final exams is incorrect.

I think this year Princeton was peaking and would have a good chance to advance in the playoffs. Quite honestly I am surprised there is not a smart lawyer out there who couldn't argue against the rule on behalf of the players.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League football champ should be allowed to compete.


Author:
Go...'gate
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 03:06:21 12/30/16 Fri

I saw Princeton play several times and strongly believe they could have competed very well in the playoffs.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League football champ should be allowed to compete.


Author:
Son of Eli
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 07:58:23 12/30/16 Fri

And many of those basketball games are played during the week and therefore conflict mare directly with class time than football playoff games which are only on the weekends.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Want the experience of playing North Dakota State?


Author:
Calvin
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 11:05:08 12/30/16 Fri

Sure, but I don't think anyone is asking whether they can get a game with NDSU, rather they're commenting on whether such a possibility is so imposing that it should discourage the ivies from wanting to be in a playoff situation.

Besides there's no point in trying to schedule such a game in-season if there's no hope of a post-season.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Want the experience of playing North Dakota State?


Author:
Randy California
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 14:52:32 12/30/16 Fri

Not too imposing. Your players certainly want to compete. But is this how you want to end your season?

If the the tourney determined the D-I champion, I think you would be all in. However, it's just FCS. It's like the basketball NIT...for football teams.

All l'm suggesting is that playoff caliber opponents are readily available without participating in the playoffs. And if the Ivies don't want tp play them in September, I can't see them signing up for December in Fargo. Not for the slim odds of a FCS trophy.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Want the experience of playing North Dakota State?


Author:
Calvin
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 16:28:24 12/30/16 Fri

1) Half the league finishes on a losing note every year (not allowing for 'adjustments" some fans apply to claim their team was "really better than ....")

2) I would be surprised if any realistic ivy fan expects to win national championship in: soccer, cross country, basketball, baseball, golf, tennis, track (team), swimming, volleyball, wrestling, or (other than in extremely rare years) hockey or lacrosse, but they still compete

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League football and the FCS playoffs


Author:
Jerrylh
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 07:46:26 12/30/16 Fri

Valid Arguments to counter my post.

I only watched these playoffs this year and am so impressed with the quality of those teams. James Madison lost only one game this year and that was to North Carolina. I watched almost all of the Princeton games this year and I just can't see Princeton effectively competing against any of the teams in the semi-finals. But of course this is one year and I am not a football expert.
At any rate, you should all watch the finals next week.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Ivy League is the only D-1 conference intentionally limiting its teams


Author:
Diogenes
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 12:50:10 12/30/16 Fri


[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> Subject: Re: "limiting its teams"


Author:
Randy California
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 12:55:38 12/30/16 Fri

Are you specifically referring to the NCAA football tournament? The Ivy isn't the only conference that does not participate.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> Subject: Thank you for correcting me


Author:
Diogenes (Randy California)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 13:24:50 12/30/16 Fri

I did not know that. My incorrect understanding was that all FCS football conferences either received an automatic bid or their members were eligible for at-large bids, with the Ivies eschewing both. Which are the other "eschewing" conferences or schools?

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: MEAC and SWAC


Author:
Randy California
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 14:04:19 12/30/16 Fri

The Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference and the Southwestern Athletic Conference send their champions to the Celebration Bowl rather than the playoffs. Moreover, the SWAC's regular season extends into late November, thereby conflicting with the playoffs.

A MEAC squad might be able to accept an at-large playoff bid. Extremely unlikely they would get one.

Both conferences used to have playoff auto bids, but gave them up for the more attractive/more lucrative bowl game. Also, the SWAC was unable to get a playoff win in something like 15 attempts.

The Pioneer got its first playoff win this year, but might prefer to emulate the black college bowl model...if they could find a nonscholarship D-I league as a bowl partner.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: MEAC and SWAC


Author:
Diogenes (Randy California)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 15:15:41 12/30/16 Fri

Thanks again. A lot of famous players, and coaches, from many of those schools. The Celebration Bowl is probably far more lucrative than the FCS games.

Bob Hayes of Florida A&M, to my way of thinking, has never received the credit he deserves for permanently altering the NFL passing game. He was, to the passing game, similar to what Bobby Orr was to hockey defensemen.

In addition to actually being the fastest man in the world, Hayes was also a superb football player with great hands, the moves and cutting ability of a running back and never shied away from contact. There has never been another like him and, like Orr, there probably never will be.

So, thanks for the info and the memories.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: MEAC and SWAC


Author:
Anthony
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 16:27:40 12/30/16 Fri

I am confident that Bob Hayes could run a 4.27 forty. Of course, he never came near playing in the Ivy League.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: MEAC and SWAC


Author:
UAalum72
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 17:35:46 12/30/16 Fri

Actually, a MEAC team got a bid this year. North Carolina Ag & Tech played Richmond in the first round, losing 39-10

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Thank you for correcting me


Author:
Memphis Bill
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 17:09:19 12/30/16 Fri

I believe that Bob Hayes' incredible come from behind effort in anchoring the US 4x100 relay team to a gold medal at the '64 Games in Tokyo may still represent the highest velocity ever achieved by a human being on two feet, even taking into account the recent exploits of Usain Bolt. Hayes took a virtually last place US team and vaulted us into the lead with a display of speed that seemed more akin to flying than running...

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League football and the FCS playoffs


Author:
remember it well
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 16:38:10 12/30/16 Fri

I guess is this is a subject where I part company with a lot of my fellow Ivy boosters. I have little to no interest in watching the FCS post season games and only a modicum of interest in seeing the Ivys compete in them. If top teams in the FCS are the ones we want to play and if that helps recruitment then add them to the regular season schedule. Highly doubt we are losing recruits because of not having a chance to participate in FCS playoffs. Emphasis should be on adding an 11th game so that all Ivy players and fans get more enjoyment with a guaranteed longer season.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League football and the FCS playoffs


Author:
Eastern Sports Fan
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 17:23:57 12/30/16 Fri

Amen. Every other Ivy sports team competes for the Division I NCAA Championships every season. Ivy football is not allowed that privilege, despite essentially being the founding fathers of the National Collegiate Athletic Assn. in 1904. Why should they even consider playing in some makeshift category that was created to cut them out of the hierarchy in the TV money revolution of 1980. btw, Happy New Year.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> Subject: You sum it up nicely!


Author:
Observer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 19:03:41 12/30/16 Fri

I couldn't agree more.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: Gridiron Bowl


Author:
Son of Eli
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 17:56:06 12/30/16 Fri

Patriot League Champ used to play the NEC champ in the Gridiron Bowl. Maybe the Ivy League could start that back up with the Patriot League. It's better than nothing. Sand Diego-Princeton would actually have been a pretty compelling match-up.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Pioneer, not Patriot


Author:
Randy California
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 19:40:55 12/30/16 Fri

Maybe the PFL needs a name that can't be confused with someone else's.

Shallow Pockets League?

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Re: Gridiron Bowl


Author:
Son of Eli
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 07:19:39 12/31/16 Sat

Thanks for catching that. I meant Pioneer.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: Re: Ivy League football and the FCS playoffs


Author:
foehi
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 20:19:19 12/30/16 Fri

I will take an 11th game over meaningless FCS post season play any time.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League football and the FCS playoffs


Author:
bulldog10jw
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06:37:08 12/31/16 Sat

An 11th game is for everyone. Playoffs for one team. While I have nothing against playoff participation, an 11th game is far more desirable.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League football and the FCS playoffs


Author:
Son of Eli
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 07:31:38 12/31/16 Sat

I agree that an 11th game is far more desirable IF it could be scheduled against a FBS program. Under current NCAA bowl counter rules that is nearly impossible for the Athletic Directors of the Ivy League to do.

An extra game against the likes of Butler or Stetson isn't going to energize the fan base or garner much local media attention. Therefore I think FCS playoff participation would do more to boost the brand of Ivy League football right now.

Of course as an avid supporter of Yale football I would be very happy if the Ivy League added an 11th game against any FCS program. I just don't think it would be as exciting for the players or the casual fan as a FCS playoff game.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League football and the FCS playoffs


Author:
bulldog10jw
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09:36:53 12/31/16 Sat

What fan base?

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League football and the FCS playoffs


Author:
CU_88
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08:51:29 12/31/16 Sat

I would be happy if they started the season 1 week earlier.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: Bob Hayes (Olympic 4 x 100 relay)


Author:
Bullet
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08:03:41 12/31/16 Sat

Bob Hayes may not have played in the Ivy League but he ran with an Ivy Leaguer. Gerry Ashworth of Dartmouth ran the second leg for the gold medal winners in the 1964 Olympic 4 x 100 relay.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Re: Bob Hayes (Olympic 4 x 100 relay)


Author:
holtsledge
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08:39:19 12/31/16 Sat

might have been the fastest white boy that ever lived, I believe his best time in the 100 yard dash was a 9.4 I think Hayes ran 9.1

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> Subject: Impressive


Author:
Calvin
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09:31:06 12/31/16 Sat

But could he jump?

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Impressive


Author:
Diogenes (Calvin)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 10:29:28 12/31/16 Sat

Hayes was 5'11",185 pounds and jumped high enough to catch 371 passes for 7,414 yards and 71 touchdowns.

When Hayes played, it was legal to hit receivers anywhere on the field. Also, a pass was a free ball and the receiver and defender were equally entitled to the ball, ergo: a defender could flatten a receiver as long as the defender was "going for the ball". Hayes was a football player, not a pretty boy sprinter.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Impressive


Author:
Memphis Bill
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 11:41:19 12/31/16 Sat

Good memory Bullet, I had forgotten about Mr. Ashworth of Dartmouth. Also of note in those games were Yale's Wendell Mottley winning the Silver in the 400 meters (for Trinidad), and Jay Luck of Yale finishing two spots out of the money in the 400 IH. The US track team was coached by Yale's Bob Giegengack,

There were multiple medals won by Ivy swimmers led by Yale's Don Schollanders four freestyle and relay golds. When golds won by Penn-heavy Vesper Boat Club representing US in HW crew are factored in, I believe Ivy students and grads accounted for more medals than any other conference at those Olympics.

Obviously, we have fallen from that lofty perch!

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Cornell's Bill Stowe stroked the U.S. Olympic eight.


Author:
Diogenes
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 12:06:29 12/31/16 Sat


[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Impressive


Author:
joiseyfan
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 12:53:37 12/31/16 Sat

Princeton's Jed Graef won the gold in the 200 backstroke on the same Olympic team with the great Schollander.

More obscurely, a young Tiger hoopster from far-off Missouri captained the gold-medal basketball team. William Warren Bradley then returned to campus for his senior season, the last gold-medal Princetonian to do so prior to Ashleigh Johnson '17.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> Subject: Not to mention


Author:
sparman
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 12:51:12 12/31/16 Sat

Bill Bradley on USA gold medal basketball team.

A couple ivy leaguers won medals in obscure sports like sailing.

1964 a very good ivy Olympic year.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Re: Bob Hayes (Olympic 4 x 100 relay)


Author:
Joe Batchelder (ivyjoe)
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 19:44:32 01/03/17 Tue

Three Ivy Leaguers won bronze medals sailing on the same boat "Bingo" a 5.5 meter class: Joe Batchelder '60 from Dartmouth and Frank Scully '48 and J.J. "Don"McNamara'53 from Harvard in the 1964 Tokyo Olympics

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> Subject: Joe Batchelder, Dartmouth '39 was an excellent basketball player


Author:
Diogenes
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 22:07:52 01/03/17 Tue

Any relation?

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> Subject: 11th Game or Playoffs


Author:
Al's Wingman
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 14:30:55 12/31/16 Sat

An 11th game is a fine idea, especially if it is a first place tiebreaker. No harm in Ivy teams playing each other twice in same season.

People continue to use North Dakota State as an example of a playoff team but the fact is lots of other teams get into the bracket: http://www.ncaa.com/interactive-bracket/football/fcs

It's not that scary. It's part of the collegiate experience and I will repeat what I have been saying for a while - the Ivies have been selling themselves short for many years. Some excellent (ranked) teams have missed out on seeing how far they could take that excellence into the I-AA/FCS playoffs over the years.

It's an outdated Ivy policy. Well meaning but unnecessary.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]


VoyUser Login ] Not required to post.
Post a public reply to this message | Go post a new public message
* HTML allowed in marked fields.
* Message subject (required):

Name (required):

  Expression (Optional mood/title along with your name) Examples: (happy, sad, The Joyful, etc.) help)

  E-mail address (optional):

* Type your message here:


Notice: Copies of your message may remain on this and other systems on internet. Please be respectful.

[ Contact Forum Admin ]


Forum timezone: GMT-5
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2016 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.