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Subject: Re: Jack Young Commits to Columbia


Author:
Roar
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Date Posted: 19:24:37 01/04/17 Wed
In reply to: spainy 's message, "Re: Jack Young Commits to Columbia" on 15:46:57 01/04/17 Wed

Can't agree about the new class not being as good as 2016's, not true at all in my view. This could be our best crop ever of RBs and WRs, and the OLs and DBs look real good, too. Seemed to start out a little slow but has really picked up, And maybe more to come to fill the LBs and DLs, stay tuned.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Jack Young Commits to Columbia


Author:
spainy
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Date Posted: 20:21:28 01/04/17 Wed

Good post. Given my statements about rankings, can't say I agree on all but hope you are right.

On RB-side, 2016 had two ranked kids who played a good amount so are proven quantities. 2017 only has one ranked kid who's not quite at same level on paper and film, but sure he'll be a good addition. Hopefully one of the 3 steps up to become a big-time rusher.

On receivers and OLine there are alot of good 2016 kids waiting in wings and don't see any 2017 kids who are better on paper or film, but believe your right that classes may match at least these position groups. But more important there may be some real depth building at these positions (assuming the coaches actually do some rotations this year).

For DB's no ranked players like in 2016, but the 2016 group was too thin and more kids needed so good news here.

Keep seeing posts about wanting more LBs and less frequently DEs. Not sure they have any recruiting slots left open at this point, so not expecting any big updates.

Having said that and looking at current roster, see some really good 2016 ranked LB's along with some solid frosh players who got lots of play time (mostly special teams). Also see some solid upper-class men who must have a lot of urgency to get on field this year, so unless a 2017 kid is really outstanding (or if injuries happen) not sure we'll see them alot this year. Some one said the upcoming 2016 group may eventually be better than current seniors and at least on paper and film evidence is there. Ditto for DE's and DT's. So, given the 2017 additions think the front 7 slots are relatively loaded, so they should use remaining slots elsewhere (which it looks like they did).

Waiting a few more weeks to see rest of league come in. That will give best clue if CU is matching or exceeding rest of league talent. Matching is nice, but hoping they are getting better kids in so a Ivy title shot is realistic. Like some other teams to, but a CU run would bring lots of attention to league.

Like your optimism. Lot's of opinions on this board that are second/third hand and not terribly accurate (or smart) so hoping your info comes from someone very close to team.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Jack Young Commits to Columbia


Author:
LionFan
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Date Posted: 10:59:23 01/05/17 Thu

Sprainy, sprainy, sprainy... havent figured out if your just an anonymous troll trying to stir the pot or a delusional family member of a young lion who didnt get to play much this year.

Calling the rest of us fans on an anonymous message board "not smart" because we do not adhere to your broad stroke philosophies is hilarious.

So lets listen to the experts...
"Sometimes I don't know what comes first in recruiting rankings, the cart or the horse," Saban told reporters in December. "When a guy gets recruited by what I'm going to call high profile programs, he gets ranked higher. That's where I question the validity of how accurate some of those things may be."

Who creates these rankings? Seasoned successful college coaches? Or young interns that never played/coached? What data are they using? Is the data accurate? Have heights and weights been updated? Are 40 times verified? Are injuries, growth spurts, changes in position or system considered? How much do the rankings consider projections to other positions based on size/speed potential? How often are updates made as 16 to 18 year olds physically change ever 3-4 months? If a kid only goes to one camp, gets offered by one school and commits does he get any credit in ranking?

Again, a 6'4 wr who is also the state champ in the 100 and a 1500 pt scorer in basketball is easy to accurately rank. Even us not smart voy posters can see the great ones. Also if Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State offered I would give a bunch of stars sight unseen.

Are there times that the 2 star and 3 star rankings are right on a prospect? Of course. (see blind squirrel or Farmers Almanac) But they are wrong so often that to use them as a measuring stick is irresponsible, even laughable.

Rankings work for the elite HS prospects. These kids pass ever possible test and are easy to predict for greatness. Beneath that top group of a few hundred kids
are thousands of kids who will not and cannot be accurately ranked/rated by some recruiting service with a couple dozen 30K a year employees.

Div 3 schools will yield hundreds of non rated players that are superior to some of the 2 stars heading to Yale. I would wager Mt Union, granted not your typical div 3, would have beat Yale by 3 touchdowns this year.

So a stupid voy fan's "eye test" or the "all area" recognition in a great area like Western Pa, or a quote in the commitment release from a HS coach that "knows"... are all just as accurate and valid reason to be optimistic as a bunch of irrelevant and inaccurate 2 star rankings.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Jack Young Commits to Columbia


Author:
spainy
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Date Posted: 15:24:57 01/05/17 Thu

Well LionFan, sounds like I got you attention. Sorry to irritate you, but maybe you're proving my point. And maybe your the one with a non-ranked kid?

Rankings are relative. No real difference between a 2 and 3 star. But huge difference between a non-ranked kid and a ranked kid, just like huge difference between a 2star and a 5star.

I've also said on and individual basis, only a small factor but number of ranked in a class it's a great indicator.

Of course, FBS coaches like Saban, Jimbo and Shaw all talk down rankings while their assistants sign nothing but ranked kids. When the last time you saw Alabama play more than an unranked kid. Or USC, or even lowly BC. Look on the commits boards and count the unranked kids.

But having hard time seeing how having more ranked kids is a bad thing for any Ivy. Sure seems like the coaches want these kids bad. And, I'd point out that like FBS, the Ivy's are going all over the country these days looking for them.

Finally, please look at the more academic FBS programs like Duke, Northwestern and Stanford. All ranked kids. Huh? Why is that??

Also note that every spring and summer, virtually all Ivy offers (ok, academic support offers) are to ranked kids, and it's not until they fall off the board that the teams start to pay attention to the unranked kids. Maybe that means nothing? Oh, snap!

But as I've said, ranking doesn't make a kid good. But it does highlight what kids may be good, and really good. So the more ranked kids, the higher the chance of some kids that can make plays rather than just be totally adequate.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Jack Young Commits to Columbia


Author:
LionFan
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Date Posted: 16:34:56 01/05/17 Thu

Why is that?
Because as soon as they get offered, they get ranked.

You are trying to use a Top 25 argument for the Ivy League. But we are not the smart ones?

Will look forward to watching your son's stars shine whether they are two, three or none.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Jack Young Commits to Columbia


Author:
spainy
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Date Posted: 20:02:09 01/05/17 Thu

well LionFan, since you're doing your detective work let me give you some hints. It's true that I'm a CU dad, and carefully followed some "rough" seasons. Unfortunately, my daughter wasn't ranked in football so I'm pissed. Sure team would have been better if she were.

Hopefully, my 14yr old son will be at least a 3star, and I'll inform him that's you're ready and eager to watch him at CU even if he is ranked. Hopefully you can look past the ranking, and have some pull w/coaches 'cause financial aide is a big deal! Only minor issues for him at CU is that "another" key family member is more interested in a New Haven apt. But Reno should be out by then otherwise Bags wins the day (assuming he's still around).

As for me, I'm just an ex-FBS guy (or more accurately, and D1A guy). Would love to be a full-time coach, but can't afford to be. Have to do real work to pay for things.

One more clue! Oh, isn't it a $^#* rip-off travesty that Penn State didn't get into the playoffs. OU didn't deserve it!!! Damn!!! But looks like USC did with all those ranked kids. Can you believe the USC QB was only a 4star!!!!

Gotta go. Late for dinner. Hope this clears things up. Don't like being called a troll.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Jack Young Commits to Columbia


Author:
LionFan
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Date Posted: 12:51:37 01/06/17 Fri

You come on here
Insult Ivy League football
Insult Columbia Football
Insult Coach Bagnoli and staff
Insult the intelligence of other posters
Insult kids (some of whom read this) who... are not ranked by some ridiculously inaccurate system you wish to use... or who won meaningless all state awards...

and you don't consider yourself a Troll?

you are the worst kind of troll. Foehi, pokes fun and tries to be clever but doesnt even take himself too serious.

you have fooled yourself into thinking you have intelligent arguments to support your insults...

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Jack Young Commits to Columbia


Author:
spainy
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Date Posted: 14:39:16 01/06/17 Fri

Didn't insult Ivy football, just saying they're not the most athletic league in D1.

Didn't insult the kids. Just saying it's not the most athletic crew in D1. Gone out of my way to point out many non-ranked kids will do very well and in some cases become stars.

Didn't insult CU or Bags. Truth is, they're a chronic loosing program that looks like they're finally turning around.

Don't know any CU coaches so no comment either way.

As for posters, there are some very good posts and some not-so-good posts. But when I see posts that say things like "they can move serveral DL to LB easily", or a kid runs 4.36 at 200LBs and is coming to an Ivy my "dumb-$^#D" sensor goes off.

Sorry pissing you off so bad. Not really intentional so let's stop now given you're getting irrational.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Please refresh your memory on your post...


Author:
LionFan
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Date Posted: 14:55:50 01/06/17 Fri

Sprainy's post season analysis of Ivy League;

1.) The new kick-off rules make boring games more boring!

2.) As usual Ivy league talent is a mishmash of some really talented players with mostly boring HS level players who can barely run.

3.) How did some of the kids who made all Ivy actually get there??? League politics or what!

4.) The overall season (minus the H-Y game) was very boring. And the "who cares" standings reinforce this. (I'm sure some Ivy folks will claim parity of league - I agree, most teams suck).

5.) The Ivy league coaching staffs all proves again how much they suck compared to the rest of FCS (and especially the FBS). Absolutely no offense or defense innovation and trick plays from the '40s.

6.) So happy Ivy is leading college football on injury prevention mostly because there is absolutely nothing else they lead in except most boring games. And we definitely got some "Ivy football meets safe space" stuff going on.

7.) If you want some fun East Coast football for a change, watch the Patriot or Colonial league if you can't watch a real FBS game. Oh, and they're still playing....




Your whole schtick has been along these lines. You come to an Ivy Board and anonymously insult people

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Please refresh your memory on your post...


Author:
spainy
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Date Posted: 15:00:57 01/06/17 Fri

are you sure you got the same guy???

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Copy and Pasted word for word


Author:
LionFan
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Date Posted: 15:07:44 01/06/17 Fri

That is copy and pasted from just one of your posts (11/23 to be exact) insulting the Ivy League this fall.

Now you are not even owning your expert opinions?

We are the stupid ones for sure.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Copy and Pasted word for word


Author:
spainy
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Date Posted: 15:13:56 01/06/17 Fri

you really should be sure about things like this before you post them! NG in a big way.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Please refresh your memory on your post...


Author:
spainy
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Date Posted: 15:05:45 01/06/17 Fri

better yet, I'll just go into read-only mode to avoid any more LionFan spankings!!!! But re-post was fun to read.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Jack Young Commits to Columbia


Author:
spainy
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Date Posted: 14:56:43 01/06/17 Fri

oh, and never said there are NO athletic kids in league. Rather, they're mostly, and you guessed it - ranked. But I admit there are some surprises from the other kids as well.

But I've also seen my share of 220lb full-back types that trip or nose-dive after more than 5yrds of running, 5-flat 40 type DB's, LBs that can't move laterally, and lineman that carry all 280lbs around their tummy and hips. In the Ivy's, it's often a weird mix of really good kids, and barely average kids on field at same time.

But optimistic and hoping that continues to improve as teams bring in more and more talent, which again, you guessed it, means more ranked kids. Not insulting anyone. Just saying things need to improve for Ivy's to keep up with rest of FCS.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: i don't think there are many


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 15:52:45 01/06/17 Fri

lineman 280 and up anywhere in college that don't have a belly and big hips, in fact the pros like the guys that have big hips thick thighs etc

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Jack Young Commits to Columbia


Author:
Old Lions (Snacks' stars)
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Date Posted: 16:13:09 01/06/17 Fri

Damon "Snacks" Harrison, just named first team all Pro, had zero stars coming out of high school. Right now he may be the best run stopper in the NFL. He was barely recruited coming out of high school.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: and


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 17:36:58 01/06/17 Fri

he has a big belly and big hips

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Jack Young Commits to Columbia


Author:
Roar
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Date Posted: 02:01:12 01/05/17 Thu

Sprainy, I think you're wrong about the RBs. Rankings or not Moore looks like a bigger talent than Thomas and Rose, both of whom will have to show more to hold their spots, and Filacouris is a strong and smart runner who can really find the holes, with Jalen Allen up there in potential as well. I look for Moore or Filacouris to be starting before long.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Jack Young Commits to Columbia


Author:
Old Lion (Power back)
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Date Posted: 09:08:29 01/05/17 Thu

Moore looks like the type of power back which Al has always recruited, but I think there are plenty of carries to go around. Thomas is very good, and Rose is more of a third down guy. I do not think that RB is going to be an issue. We will need some more help on the OL, especially to replace the under appreciated Kendall Pace, plus a legitimate pass catching TE. On defense I really like the young DEs and LBs, but we have go get some more DB help and more DLs who can play inside.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Jack Young Commits to Columbia


Author:
The Mountain Lion
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Date Posted: 22:12:16 01/05/17 Thu

Cameron Lipton-Martinez could very well be that "legitimate pass catching end" that Lion fans are wishing for and he is a very good blocker as well. In addition, the Lions already have a number of tight end possibilities returning. This should be one of the most highly contested positions this spring.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Jack Young Commits to Columbia


Author:
spainy
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Date Posted: 15:39:51 01/05/17 Thu

nice to see if your right on Moore. Agree he'll turn up heat on other guys, who were all adequate but didn't break out as frosh. My guess is that if the 2017 guys prove themselves, they'll be in rotation within a few games. Starting will likely be more tied to injuries than beat-outs. For all the frosh that played this year, still feel team was going too slow putting new talent in game. Not sure 1 extra win was worth not getting more experience for young kids, but it's in the books now.

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