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Subject: Brown hockey


Author:
Grin and Bear it (Help)
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Date Posted: 21:23:45 01/13/17 Fri

Can someone who knows more than me about hockey please explain why Brown is so bad. It is my opinion that Whittet is a terrible coach. Off of his record that can not be denied, but I was wondering if there is something I am missing. Talent? brown seems to get its fair share, at least I always read about Brown hockey players making it to the pros. But watching the team lose a lead tonight and fall to St Lawrence was just painful. The players seem so dispirited and careless with the puck. The Brown power play is terrible and they can't defense an opponent's power play. This is not new, it has been going on for years. Yet Whittet remains the coach. I can't believe Hayes has not sent Whittet on his way? The program needs a complete overhall. What am I missing?

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Replies:
[> Subject: Re: Brown hockey


Author:
Counsellor
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Date Posted: 22:35:33 01/14/17 Sat

Goaltending has again been weak...the freshman was expected to be more solid...even when Brown scores the goaltending leads to losses...2 goals let up in the last pd last nite after leading 1-0....not the coaching in my opinion...

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[> [> Subject: Re: Brown hockey


Author:
Grin
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Date Posted: 22:32:14 01/15/17 Sun

The AI does not favor HYP. The AI favors Brown. Brown has the lowest AI. But money is a big factor. And Brown has the least. Brown probably does have too many teams for the resources, but they keep adding. For example, I don't think Brown has ever won an ivy league squash match. They have had the same coach for about 30 years. How can that be justified? But the situation with hockey is disturbing. Brown is simply terrible and under the current coach they have made no progress. I ask why? Brown needs to do what Columbia did with Football,hire someone who can rebuild from scratch. The program is a disgrace to the good name of the university.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Brown hockey


Author:
florida lion
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Date Posted: 19:16:49 01/16/17 Mon

Interesting comment about squash. My very vague understanding is that schools have to offer a variety of sports for NCAA rules, Title this or that rules and so on. I don't know what latitude they have, but not every school offers every sport. A side effect is that non mainstream sports offer additional entrance opportunities to a relatively small group of athletes, not too many public high schools have squash or fencing teams.

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[> Subject: Re: Brown hockey


Author:
Sr Punter
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Date Posted: 19:13:57 01/15/17 Sun

I have a great deal of empathy for AD Hayes. He has too many teams for the resources he has, and some alums will always believe he is not using them in the right places, but he still has to make choices. The AI favors HYP, and they also have superior resources.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Brown hockey


Author:
Counsellor
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Date Posted: 19:40:14 01/16/17 Mon

Cornell has the lowest AI not Brown - such assists Cornell in wrestling, hockey and lax...not so much football so far...

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[> [> Subject: Re: Brown hockey


Author:
Counselor
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Date Posted: 20:13:02 01/16/17 Mon

Brown committee recommended cutting several sports years ago, but a weak President relented facing an onslaught from the wrestling contingent and then there was the debacle decades ago when Brown sought to eliminate Gymnastics leading to millions lost in legal fees and a seminal Title IX decision...Brown needs 39 sports like a hole in the head but will never be able to pull off any reductions...Lax program top ten national calibre...football upper half Ivy...soccer always competitive...swimming and water polo more than competitive as is rowing...the aforesaid wrestling program improving under an energetic coach....basketball and hockey struggling..to be objective not a bad portfolip all things considered

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[> Subject: The Waning Impact of The AI Over The Years, Now Money Talks


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 21:54:31 01/16/17 Mon

The AI does not favor HYP. On the contrary, it was designed to handicap HYP as an offset against their advantages in finances and brand name.

However, after the re-centering of the SAT, everybody's scores got bumped up by about 100 points. Now, between the re-centering of the scale and the proliferation of test prep courses and coaches (anybody want to make $100 an hour coaching affluent kids in comfortable suburbs?), SAT figures in the Ivy League have been compressing against the 2400 ceiling for years. 25% of the kids at HYP now sport a perfect 2400 score; the other Ivies are close behind.

Because the SAT scores have become so compressed, the AI is much less of a handicap for HYP than it used to be. Today the HYP advantages in money and stature, which of course have always been a factor, become much more significant on a relative basis.

This is bad for competition and, in the long run, it's bad for the League. And I say that as an HYP alumnus. Now with Harvard leading a race to the bottom academically, the situation is likely to get worse, not better.

If you define a "good" conference as one whose RPI is higher than it used to be, well, I guess we're better than we used to be. But if you define a good conference as one in which the primary determinant of winning and losing is the talent and dedication of the players and coaches, then we are worse than we used to be. Today, money and brand name are more influential than ever before, especially money in the form of financial aid, facilities and equipment, as well as million-dollar coaching salaries. And that imbalance is bad for any conference.

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[> [> Subject: Re: The Waning Impact of The AI Over The Years, Now Money Talks


Author:
Sr Punter
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Date Posted: 17:15:56 01/17/17 Tue

Observer, I don't see how you conclude that the AI doesn't advantage HYP. The AI reduces the number of fish in the pool, so that all of the Ivies are fishing for the same fish. Singe the "little five" rarely win head-to-head competitions with HYP for non-athletes for the reasons you have identified (those numbers are known) and, I suspect it's even greater when athletes are involved. The financial and brand name advantages are only magnified when the AI numbers are included. The AI Floor is the same for all of the Ivies, and HYP get first shot at the biggest fish.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: The Waning Impact of The AI Over The Years, Now Money Talks


Author:
florida lion
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Date Posted: 20:05:13 01/17/17 Tue

I'm not sure that you aren't both sort of agreeing with one another. With inflation in both GPA and SAT scores, it seems that the differential in AI between the eight schools is less than it was. So Harvard isn't prevented from going after the same prospects as every other Ivy. As Observer suggests, it may have been designed to level the playing field, but no longer does.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: The Waning Impact of The AI Over The Years, Now Money Talks


Author:
Sr Punter
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Date Posted: 20:16:02 01/17/17 Tue

Correct, FD. If I may beat my metaphor to death. The AI allows those with the best bait, to fish upstream.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: The Waning Impact of The AI Over The Years, Now Money Talks


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 12:53:39 01/18/17 Wed

As Florida Lion said, I think we actually agree with each other. My point is that the AI was originally implemented to handicap the recruiting of HYP. But events since then have conspired to turn what was intended to limit the freedom of HYP into a perverse system where arguably the HYP recruiting advantage is now codified within the structure of the AI, which I believe is your main point, Sr Punter.

I know that things move in cycles and just a simple thing like a changeover in coaches will necessarily shake up the deck. But right now, it appears that the structural advantage of HYP over the rest of the league is growing. I find that very regrettable.

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[> Subject: Re: Brown hockey


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 19:35:48 02/01/17 Wed

It's not just the AI. There are a lot more hockey programs now all competing for a relatively small pool of top talent. Even Arizona State has a hockey program now which seems surreal. Maybe they have a selling point for Canada kids to escape the winter.

As others have said, you need something to offer the better players or they will go with another option, despite the appeal of an Ivy education. All things considered, Brown has hung around the middle of the pack the last few seasons (I have not checked this year's results). Considering how challenging it is to compete in their own conference, maybe middle of the pack is not so bad for Brown in hockey.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Brown hockey


Author:
Brown Fan
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Date Posted: 20:10:37 02/01/17 Wed

You're fortunate not to have checked this year's results -- middle of the pack is a dream. 4-16-1 overall, 3-11 in conference, 88 goals allowed versus 50 goals scored. One nice OT win over Dartmouth, and wins over Colgate, RPI, and Army. 1-7-2 in last 10 games. Sigh -- not even broadcaster Mike Rubin can make this one look good.

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