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Subject: Penn State and Sandusky Jr. - Another Reason to Stay Ivy vs. Big-Time


Author:
Boston Lion
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Date Posted: 16:04:52 02/14/17 Tue

News Bulletin: Penn State's child-sex-abuse scandal is back in the news. Just when the warped PSU in-denial set thought it was safe to get back to business as usual, it comes out that Jerry Sandusky's son has now also been charged with child sex abuse. Not done with this yet. So, is there enough after-shave in Pennsyltucky to drown out the smell of this second steaming pile? Time to torch some more cars in Happy Valley. The Ivies keep athletics in perspective for a very good reason, and this PSU stuff is exhibit 1.

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[> Subject: Re: Penn State and Sandusky Jr. - Another Reason to Stay Ivy vs. Big-Time


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 16:32:39 02/14/17 Tue

Not with you on this point. The good people of State College, PA didn't know a small but influential number of their leaders would allow such heinous criminality behind everyone's backs.

And as the Penn State football program has shown this past season, they don't need a great legacy to kickstart a new one. The program is on excellent footing. If not for politics and a tough break here and there, they might have had a shot at the playoffs last season.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Penn State and Sandusky Jr. - Another Reason to Stay Ivy vs. Big-Time


Author:
Bostonj Lion
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Date Posted: 17:08:17 02/14/17 Tue

"Their LEADERS"? Really? Focus on your word "influential." When a football program at an EDUCATIONAL institution is the source of a university's leaders, people have lost their way. This is a school we're talking about and not a farm-team system, right? Paterno had more authority than the university president, and that's where the warp set in. Tail waggin' the dog. Name a corporation where the CEO answers to a departmental manager.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Penn State and Sandusky Jr. - Another Reason to Stay Ivy vs. Big-Time


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 17:29:54 02/14/17 Tue

Nothing you have said even addresses the point you are trying to make. Your pompous attitude doesn't give you the right to disparage a community.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Penn State and Sandusky Jr. - Another Reason to Stay Ivy vs. Big-Time


Author:
Boston Lion
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Date Posted: 10:14:58 02/15/17 Wed

1. As far as addressing the point, I don't get your reply.

2. Name calling not necessary. If believing that a university president, and not an athletics coach, should be running a university makes me pompous, then I accept the charge.

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[> Subject: Re: Penn State and Sandusky Jr. - Another Reason to Stay Ivy vs. Big-Time


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 17:02:39 02/14/17 Tue

I too strongly prefer the Ivy model to big-time athletics, but there is plenty of hypocrisy in our world as well. Our academic standards have never been stretched further, so we had better be careful before picking up any stones to throw.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Penn State and Sandusky Jr. - Another Reason to Stay Ivy vs. Big-Time


Author:
Boston Lion
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Date Posted: 17:12:29 02/14/17 Tue

Agreed. But like many things, there are degrees of a problem. Big-time programs have commensurately much, much bigger-time distortions as compared to Ivy-scale distortions.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Penn State and Sandusky Jr. - Another Reason to Stay Ivy vs. Big-Time


Author:
Diogenes
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Date Posted: 18:45:56 02/14/17 Tue

Exactly what "academic distortions" are you talking about? There is certainly an argument that the Ivy League is, by definition, an academic distortion. The largest Ivy "academic distortions" would seem to be the flagrant discrimination against people of Asian descent, the discrimination in favor of the more affluent, the discrimination in favor of "minorities" and the discrimination against those not espousing current politically correct orthodoxy.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Penn State and Sandusky Jr. - Another Reason to Stay Ivy vs. Big-Time


Author:
florida lion
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Date Posted: 20:14:36 02/14/17 Tue

The Ivies aren't perfect, so no stones will be cast by me. It does seem, however, that the distortions, academic or otherwise, are much less than they are elsewhere. Ivy athletes participate in the same classes as the rest of the student body, and so on. Compare the graduation rates of the Ivy athletes with any other schools.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Penn State and Sandusky Jr. - Another Reason to Stay Ivy vs. Big-Time


Author:
Boston Lion
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Date Posted: 21:49:11 02/14/17 Tue

First, I never used the phrase "academic distortions." I said distortions, period.

Second, the distortion I'm talking about is having a football coach be given higher earnings and more de facto authority than his org-chart boss, the university president. Boiling it all down, that is the root cause of the Penn State mess.

It's one thing for this model to set in at big-time programs. It's even worse when people fail to recognize how that's completely upside-down when it comes to governing an institution whose central purpose is the education of students.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Penn State and Sandusky Jr. - Another Reason to Stay Ivy vs. Big-Time


Author:
Diogenes (Boston/Florida lions)
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Date Posted: 00:12:50 02/15/17 Wed

I conflated your two posts because I thought you were both referring to stretching Ivy admission standards for athletes--which if really a problem, pales in comparison to far more significant Ivy problems. With very few exceptions, Ivy athletes are extraordinary young people.

To the extent I misunderstood your two posts, my apologies.

The Penn State and Baylor situations are tragic and emblematic of problems which bedevil certain aspects of college athletics. What gets lost amidst the wreckage is the fact that most college athletes benefit from their experiences/studies, are decent people and go on to lead good lives.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Penn State and Sandusky Jr. - Another Reason to Stay Ivy vs. Big-Time


Author:
Boston Lion
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Date Posted: 10:10:36 02/15/17 Wed

Agreed.

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[> Subject: Re: Penn State and Sandusky Jr. - Another Reason to Stay Ivy vs. Big-Time


Author:
metrolax
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Date Posted: 23:31:59 02/14/17 Tue

What's sad about this is that its possible his son was himself a victim. I'm not an expert on the subject by any stretch, but the issue of culpability of the university in State College has run its course. Now its a sad continuation of a tragic event.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Penn State and Sandusky Jr. - Another Reason to Stay Ivy vs. Big-Time


Author:
Boston Lion
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Date Posted: 10:11:19 02/15/17 Wed

Also agreed.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Penn State and Sandusky Jr. - Another Reason to Stay Ivy vs. Big-Time


Author:
Old Lion (Kendall Pace)
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Date Posted: 10:30:01 02/15/17 Wed

There is a terrific piece by Kendall Pace, who was an all Ivy LT this year, on why he went Ivy despite having D 1 offers. It is an open letter to all HS athletes with the talent to play D1 but the grades to go Ivy and is not Columbia specific. If I could attach it I would.

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[> Subject: Re: Penn State and Sandusky Jr. - Another Reason to Stay Ivy vs. Big-Time


Author:
CornellFan
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Date Posted: 11:57:22 02/15/17 Wed

The recent news out of Baylor is disturbing as well. The NCAA appears to have little interest in pursuing sanctions. In the case of Penn State, a jury found that crimes were committed. It does appear that knowledge of the crimes were limited to just a few officials at the university. The NCAA imposed severe sanctions, making the case that the supposed cover-up impacted competition balance supposedly because if the facts were known it would have affected PSU's ability to compete, e.g., recruiting, etc. subsequently, that "scope stretch" was subsequently disputed upon appeal. In the case of Baylor, officials shielded players from the consequences of their actions allowing them to continue to compete, and it appears the "anything goes" culture was used to recruit talent. The actions directing impacted competitiveness, but the NCAA remains relatively passive?

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