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Subject: It was The Best of Times, It was The Worst of Times


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 13:17:05 03/06/17 Mon
In reply to: Jerrylh 's message, "IVY League playoffs-could we have 3 in the post season" on 12:47:51 03/06/17 Mon

I think it's fascinating that, in the very first year of the Ivy tournament, on the women's and men's sides, we get the very best and very worst outcomes.

With the ladies, Penn is clearly the best team but they lost to Cornell and have been pushed by others. By logic, they should get to host the tournament, but it's not unreasonable for them to face another test, especially if they happen to lose to Princeton tomorrow night. (I wouldn't mind if the Quakers got a bye, facing the winner of Princeton/Harvard after an extra day of rest.)

With the men, Monmouth/Siena showed us once again the risk that all one-bid conferences take when they fix the tournament site at one school's home court before the season starts. The worst case scenario for our conference always was for any undefeated Ivy team to have to play a #4 Penn team at The Palestra.

And here we are, both the best and worst possible outcomes for any conference tournament. It's almost poetic.

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Replies:
[> [> Subject: People keep saying this--what am I missing?


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 13:31:07 03/06/17 Mon


Is there a reason why an undefeated regular season champ playing a weakass #4 seed Penn team with a losing league record is considered a "worse" scenario than the undefeated regular season champ playing 12-2 and #2 seed Penn at the Palestra?

Even with the home court advantages, Princeton should still win on Saturday if they show up. Seems to me that an undefeated champ playing a strong Penn team would be the greater concern of an unjust outcome.

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[> [> [> Subject: It's A Question of Merit versus Happenstance


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 14:13:08 03/06/17 Mon

The Penn women are the proper team to host their tournament because they earned the right by winning the regular season. I have no problem with the lady Quakers having the HCA. In fact, I'd strongly prefer that they get it.

Of the four men's teams, Penn is the least deserving of having the HCA. That the Quakers will have it against Princeton and potentially again versus Harvard/Yale is inappropriate. That Princeton ran through the field twice undefeated only adds to the injustice.

Penn men did nothing to earn their advantage. Indeed, they are the least deserving team in the field. That's why this is the worst case scenario in terms of merit and fairness.

The Quaker men are getting the HCA because, many decades ago, the Penn administration invested the money to build a beautiful facility, not because they earned it in 2017.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: I think we will agree to disagree


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 14:25:25 03/06/17 Mon


As I said in another post, I think any HCA here means that Princeton might not win by as much on Saturday than if the game was at a neutral court or at Jadwin.

Whereas if they played a strong Penn team in the finals, they might actually lose because of HCA.

If Princeton plays bad enough on Saturday that they actually lose the game, I'm going to have a hard time accepting any "if only we were playing on a neutral court we would have shot better than 10% in our treys" arguments.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: I think we will agree to disagree


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 14:33:03 03/06/17 Mon

So you're saying that Princeton is a 100% probability to win on Saturday, the only question is by how much? Wow, I can barely believe that you think that.

I guess you and I simply don't agree on the nature of sporting events. No team is a 100% probability to win any game.

Princeton might lose on Saturday. It would be an upset, just like Penn losing to your team Dartmouth last Friday night was an upset. But it's a very real risk for the Tigers. If you're so sure that Princeton will win, I assume that you are mortgaging your house to bet the Tigers on the money line. Right?

Princeton and all #1 seeds, especially those which are undefeated, deserve the right not to play a tournament game on their opponent's home court because they might lose outright, not because it affects the margin of victory.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: I think we will agree to disagree


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 14:45:09 03/06/17 Mon


Of course, if Princeton plays like crap, they will lose. But that's true regardless of where the game is played.

How much advantage do think HCA is worth? Three or four points? Princeton is better enough than Penn that they should cover that. If they lose on Saturday, it will be because they laid an egg, not because of Penn's HCA.

But if Penn was a strong team, those three or four points could very well be the difference even if Princeton plays well.

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