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Subject: Montague/substance abuse

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Date Posted: 20:15:18 03/29/17 Wed

I came across this recently. Now I don't know the truth about the allegations, but one thing is certain, Montague was drunk at the time and had two previous run ins of a disciplinary nature at Yale, also while intoxicated.

It is so depressing to constantly read about young men or women whose lives are destroyed by alcohol or opioids, etc.
Montague is just one of tens of thousands. Look at Johnny Manziel.

And now we are about to legalize another mind altering drug

Oh well!!

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[> Subject: Re: Montague/substance abuse

A Dose of Reality
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Date Posted: 10:56:11 03/31/17 Fri

Woe is me, college students are drinking? Where does it end? First alcohol, next thing you know they are giving out handys for smack at a warehouse in Bridgeport.

Alcohol is part of college culture. Particularly at Yale where it is deeply entwined in the social scene. You can't expect your hard-studying introverts of the Ivy League to know how to interact without the aid of the social lubricant. Alcohol is responsible for a big part of American culture whether you like it or not, and it isn't going away anytime soon. (See: prohibition).

Yes, alcohol impairs judgment. And alcohol is responsible for plenty of regrets and morning after "what have I done"s. But there is a distinct difference between the cases of actual rapists (Brock Turner assaulting a passed out victim, and was witnessed), versus the cases that are so consistently being brought to University kangaroo courts, dealing with regretful consent. A fourth sexual encounter with conflicting reports of consent is a far cry from a forceful assault on an unconscious victim, yet the treatment of these cases induce the same reputational shame regardless.

The pendulum is shifting back to center. The campus left has gone far astray from reason in countless proceedings. Wouldn't be surprised to see a class-action lawsuit within the next decade to make a statement that the American college climate has become gruesome.

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[> Subject: Montague is the victim

Diogenes (Jerrylh)
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Date Posted: 11:06:33 03/31/17 Fri

Alcohol or drug induced intoxication is a widespread societal problem. College students are no better or worse than the rest of our country.

Mr. Montague is the victim of Yale's man-hating females and Yale's men who are cowed by those man-hating females.

The academy's pogrom against men is illegal.

Whether Mr. Montague was drunk or had been drinking is irrelevant because consensual sex during or after drinking is not illegal, or even bad manners.

A jury will kick the tar out of Yale and Yale will deserve every bit of it.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Montague is the victim

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Date Posted: 11:11:54 03/31/17 Fri

Who knows what a jury will do, but it's not hard to see that happening. From the link above:

"Stephanie Spangler, the person in charge of Yale’s sexual assault adjudications since 2011, was blunt on this issue (before Montague filed his lawsuit). On February 15, 2016, in an official Yale report, she stated, “Only in extremely rare cases, where there is serious risk to the safety of individuals or the community, will the University take independent action.” [emphases added] After charges were filed against Montague (but before the Title IX office’s involvement was public), Spangler told the Yale Daily News, “Except in rare cases involving an acute threat to community safety, coordinators defer to complainants’ wishes.”

So how did Yale explain this critical discrepancy? With the following assertion: “Nothing in the Report suggests that in this circumstance the Title IX Coordinator is empowered to file a complaint only where there are ‘risks to the safety of individuals and/or the community.’” Nothing, that is, except the words of the person who wrote the Report, in sentiments that she confirmed in a subsequent interview.

The most recent Spangler Report, produced after Montague filed his lawsuit, didn’t include Spangler’s damning admission."

Don't you just hate when people have the temerity to quote you, when it means a result that you don't want?

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[> [> Subject: Re: Montague is the victim

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Date Posted: 13:04:09 03/31/17 Fri

Hi Diogenes

Whether Montague was drunk at the time is very relevant. His testimony is skewed because he was impaired.

My guess is that had he not been drunk, the whole thing wouldn't have happened in the first place. Apparently his two previous run ins with Yale university officials involved alcohol as well.

I am a physician and see just so many people who are dependent on alcohol or have a family member with that problem.

It so is sad to see a fine talented young man, captain of the basketball team, attending one of the finest universities in the world, having his career wrecked probably because of alcohol

OK I will get off my soap box.

And has been pointed out, alcohol is part of the culture of college campuses today and that is a big problem

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Montague is the victim

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Date Posted: 14:56:57 03/31/17 Fri

As Calvin points out, Yale violated its own procedures in bringing the charge against Mr. Montague and has now lied about it to the Court.

As Jerrylh points out, drinking is a problem when carried too far. However, consensual sex whilst drinking, or even when drunk, is not itself a crime or even inappropriate when it takes place in your own bedroom. There is also a big difference between mere drinking and being knee-walking drunk insofar as memory is concerned.

The young lady refused to "press charges". That should have ended the matter.

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