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Subject: Lacrosse Saturday 4/1


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 14:09:48 04/01/17 Sat

Halftime scores

Princeton 11 Brown 5
Cornell 8 Dartmouth 1
Yale 6 Penn 4

Harvard off this weekend

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Replies:
[> Subject: Lacrosse Saturday 4/1 Finals


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 15:09:02 04/01/17 Sat

Princeton 21 Brown 11
Yale 14 Penn 12
Cornell 14 Dartmouth 5

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[> [> Subject: Re: Lacrosse Saturday 4/1 Finals


Author:
YAGreen
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Date Posted: 15:12:30 04/01/17 Sat

Sigh. No surprise in the Dartmouth-Cornell game.

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[> Subject: Re: Lacrosse Saturday 4/1


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 15:19:04 04/01/17 Sat

Makes last week's Yale win at Princeton even more impressive. The rematch in the Ivy tourney could be spectacular.

Tigers' Sowers today had four assists and five goals on eight shots. Princeton put 38 shots on goal.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Lacrosse Saturday 4/1


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 16:16:32 04/01/17 Sat

Sowers currently has 3d most points (g+a) ever by a PU freshman, with 5 regular games left to play. Surprising how Brown was unable to adjust to repeated move you could see coming.

If he can learn not to get so close to crease (2 more goals waved off today), he might turn out to be pretty good.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Lacrosse Saturday 4/1


Author:
HDallmar
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Date Posted: 17:16:04 04/01/17 Sat

Quite a turnaround from last year when Brown won by eleven goals.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Lacrosse Saturday 4/1


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 18:41:14 04/01/17 Sat

The stat they dreamed up on the PU website is almost disorienting: Last year's Tiger goal differential vs. Hopkins, Penn, and Brown combined -31, this year +30.

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[> Subject: Re: Lacrosse Saturday 4/1


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 02:55:29 04/02/17 Sun

Albany beat Harvard earlier in the week @ Harvard

https://youtu.be/S-_QdyAPssQ

Why has Brown taken such a step back after being a final four team in '16?

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[> Subject: Re: Lacrosse Saturday 4/1


Author:
Sr Punter
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Date Posted: 13:34:08 04/02/17 Sun

Brown had a great face off guy and a terrific goalie last year.

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[> Subject: Re: Lacrosse Saturday 4/1


Author:
AldoTBuff
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Date Posted: 23:25:02 04/06/17 Thu

Brown also graduated an AA running mate for Molloy (Belistri) on attack and tough guys Caputo and Yozzo-Scaparetta at the midfield. This year's team is young and not nearly as rugged.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Lacrosse Saturday 4/08


Author:
Sprint66
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Date Posted: 18:58:36 04/07/17 Fri

Cornell has a tough game on Saturday at Harvard then we play Syracuse on Tuesday night at the Dome. It's been a very disappointing season for Cornell but we are playing a little better now. I am sure Ben Deluca is chomping at the bit for this game. Let's hope the Cornell defense can get some turnovers and we may have a chance against the Crimson, otherwise it will be another long day. Go Big Red!!!

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[> [> [> Subject: Yale 13 Dartmouth 6


Author:
bulldog10jw
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Date Posted: 17:32:15 04/08/17 Sat

6 straight wins for Yale and a spot in the Ivy League tournament.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Cornell 12 - Harvard 9


Author:
Sprint66
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Date Posted: 20:15:50 04/08/17 Sat

Cornell dominated the 4th quarter to pull out what was a close game all afternoon. While the Big Red is not NCAA playoff contenders this year the team is definitely improving. Another very tough game against Syracuse at the Dome this Tuesday evening, but a nice win today in Cambridge. Go Big Red!!!

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[> Subject: Cornell vs Syracuse


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 01:53:57 04/09/17 Sun

A Cornell win over 'Cuse would be the best spoiler win of the season for the Big Red. Syracuse needs that game to be considered for the #1 ranking.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Cornell vs Syracuse


Author:
Memphis Bill
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Date Posted: 09:40:27 04/09/17 Sun

To Al's Wingman:

Don't count on it. Ivies' slide this season to possible one bid status in NCAA lax tourney is traceable to Achilles' heel that impacts all Ivy sports--caps on coaches' salaries. Lax programs in BIG and ACC that easily assemble half million (and up) pay packages are going to get better coaches, in part by luring top Ivy mentors to them (see recent experiences at Brown and Harvard).

Imagine the kind of money that would be waved in front of Blackman, Carrill, or Richie Moran if they coached today instead of Halcyon days of our League's first quarter century.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Cornell vs Syracuse


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 11:15:06 04/09/17 Sun

I think you have a point, although ivy contenders have done OK versus ACC teams this year (Penn beating UVA, Yale losing by 1 to MD and Cornell in OT to UVA).

But we have seen how some schools can mostly compensate (pun intended) the salary issue, witness Amaker at Harvard. In lacrosse, I think the bigger issue is recruiting, both in terms of how much latitude, and also how early the big schools sign players - as early as 9th or even 8th grade. Ivies get commitments as early as 10th grade but it's not quite the same because there is always an academic contingency.

Anyway, I think Yale probably gets a 2d bid if they don't win the ILT, and Princeton might, if they win out and lose only in the finals of the ILT, but that may depend on results of other teams. In future years, they (and other ivies) have to schedule another ranked team and win the game. Either Rutgers or Hofstra would have been good Ws this year.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Cornell vs Syracuse


Author:
Drew90
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Date Posted: 13:12:24 04/09/17 Sun

Excuses, excuses...Princeton has 2 9th grade recruits this year and nearly all the teams you recruit against (Hop, UVA, ND, Duke) have an academic contingency...at least 1 player a year disappears from above school recruit list due to failure to hit SAT cutoff or GPA.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Cornell vs Syracuse


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 19:24:03 04/09/17 Sun

If you are saying that all the schools you list have the same academic standards as ivies, i say you are wrong.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Cornell vs Syracuse


Author:
Drew24
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Date Posted: 15:12:19 04/11/17 Tue

I didn't say that -- you said academic contingencies. All those schools have them. Every recruit at the schools have to hit certain GPA and SAT - those vary depending on player. In fact, a player might be asked to hit 1300 or 1400 at one school and a lower number at another school depending upon how they view that recruit versus rest of class. Non-Ivies might not have AI but in non-revenue sports in particular employ similar approach to getting to an average GPA and SAT.

Moreover, you brought up frosh recruiting. Princeton, Penn, Brown and Cornell all have frosh recruits. Duke as an example has none.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Cornell vs Syracuse


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 12:55:50 04/09/17 Sun

Never mind other college programs, Carril turned down the Celtics at least once.

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[> [> Subject: Ivies Are Doing Fine In Lacrosse


Author:
Upper Valley
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Date Posted: 16:52:58 04/09/17 Sun

Sure, we might only get one bid to the NCAA tournament this year. But I think it's premature to say that the Ivy League is losing ground relative to other conferences in this sport. Indeed, I think that, evaluating Ivy lacrosse across a meaningful sample size of years, say, half a dozen, the League is getting better, not worse.

Cornell will not stay down. On that, I am fully confident. Too much history and too much local high school talent for that to continue indefinitely. Yale has gotten mysteriously better under the same coach who produced mediocre results for years. Good for him; sometimes it takes you a while to grow into a job. Penn seems to have stepped up in a fairly permanent way. Princeton looked as though it would return to whence it was before Tierney arrived but, for at least the next four years, they have Sowers. And he is a difference maker, the kind of singular player who will not just win games but change a program.

Ivy lacrosse is not getting worse; it's getting better.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivies Are Doing Fine In Lacrosse


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 21:36:30 04/09/17 Sun

I'm no expert in college lacrosse. I just watch some highlights on youtube and the occasional full game when available. It seems to me Yale has some very good talent that is playing well together this season. Sometimes that is all it takes. A down season for Cornell is not the end of the line for them by any stretch. Brown is not a good team this year but destroyed Johns Hopkins in the playoffs last season, beat Navy and gave Maryland and a very competitive game to be a step away from the championship game. I don't think the LAX pool of talent is that deep where any team in DI is that much further away from the traditional powerhouses.

I don't know where Notre Dame would fit into the equation but they are an example of a program with all the money and scholarships that are permitted. They have a ton of talent but seem to choke when it counts. They have not done much with what they have (could the coaching, they seem to mostly play conservative all things considered).

You just need a few guys in this sport to play well as a team to turn a season around.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivies Are Doing Fine In Lacrosse


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 12:15:23 04/10/17 Mon

Not quite to the degree of hockey, but you can't win consistently at the top 20 level without an above-average goalie; an All-American goalie can win 2-3 games on his own.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivies Are Doing Fine In Lacrosse


Author:
al's wingman
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Date Posted: 16:48:21 04/10/17 Mon

It would be interesting to know what the differences are between a lacrosse shot 10-15-20 years ago and what it is now. It seems there are some notable improvements in the technology of the sticks and heads perhaps contributing to better torque on shots. I recall seeing games 20 years ago and the ball did not seem to go 100MPH the way it does today. Are the kids stronger? Better shooting technique? It seems there is very little a goalie can do to stop a lacrosse shot. The better players shoot with incredible accuracy and power.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivies Are Doing Fine In Lacrosse


Author:
Sprint66
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Date Posted: 20:36:39 04/10/17 Mon

The reason why we're seeing such high scoring games today is midfielders and defensemen are no longer allowed to hit like they did 20 years ago. It drives me crazy when a player makes a clean hit and they draw a two minute penalty. Lacrosse is supposed to be a contact sport like hockey and taking the physicality out of the game hurts it's growth. Lacrosse is a contact sport with helmets and pads, get rid of the soccer players and bring back the game the way it is supposed to be played.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivies Are Doing Fine In Lacrosse


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 21:33:49 04/10/17 Mon

I'm seeing plenty of hitting. It is the head shots (elbow or stick) that draws the contact fouls. I really do wonder if the stick tech of today gives players a shooting velocity advantage.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivies Are Doing Fine In Lacrosse


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 21:42:54 04/10/17 Mon

Yes, stick technology gives a big advantage in both velocity and ability to maintain possession, despite even hard checks.

But a big disadvantage in shooting accuracy.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivies Are Doing Fine In Lacrosse


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 23:51:55 04/10/17 Mon

I have never, ever, in the Ivies seen anything scarier than Jesse Hubbard winding up after a perfect feed from Jon Hess. Never. Ever.

That was twenty years ago.

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[> Subject: Princeton @ Stony Brook Highlights


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 21:39:49 04/10/17 Mon

Bad soundtrack warning unless you like fake dance club music.

https://youtu.be/Aic1Cy5Bcik

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[> [> Subject: Re: #1 Syracuse over Cornell 15-8


Author:
Sprint66
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Date Posted: 21:33:33 04/11/17 Tue

Considering Cornell's dismal record this year, the Big Red played Syracuse tough in the first half, but we ran out of gas in the third quarter and the Orange ran away with it.

It's interesting in that Syracuse is about the exact same size as Cornell enrollment wise and their endowment is 1/6th the size of our $6B endowment. However, Syracuse's athletic facilities are just so much more impressive than Cornell, it's just an embarrassment. They have a beautiful indoor stadium plus a state of the art indoor practice field, first class weight rooms, manicured outdoor practice fields. Plus they televise all their games with Time Warner Cable. Meanwhile, Cornell isn't even mentioned in our local sports sections. Oh well.....we're just good at sucking at sports!

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: #1 Syracuse over Cornell 15-8


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 23:15:41 04/11/17 Tue

I wouldn't be too hard on yourself for Cornell's down season. (again I am just an armchair lacrosse observer) but from what I can tell 'cuse was primed for a down season this year. A few players saved them. A transfer from UMass (Nick Mariano) and the breakout of Sergio Salcido who did not do much his first 2 seasons but has really turned it on the last 2. Also, they have a very experienced goalie in Evan Molloy.

Cuse has a solid team and are deserving of #1 ranking but the rest of the pack are just a handful of top players away along with some unexpected breakout talent.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: and Syracuse has better tech


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 00:51:09 04/12/17 Wed

see the theory holds true: http://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/nike-unveils-new-untouchable-speed-uniforms/49044

Every advantage helps.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: and Syracuse has better tech


Author:
Memphis Bill
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Date Posted: 10:38:54 04/12/17 Wed

Perhaps someone with a crystal ball is correct, and this year's disappointing Ivy lacrosse results (big falloffs at Brown, Penn, Cornell and Harvard) are mere aberrations, but I persist in saying the Ivies need to get their respective acts together in this sport. Otherwise,we may be seeing a repeat of what happened to football in the forties and fifties, with our teams holding on to national relevance by their fingernails, but in the end being outspent and out-recruited by very well financed big conference competition.

In particular, I sense that the days of Cornell dominance, largely founded on great recruiting on LI, are coming to an end. Ten or fifteen years ago, the pitch made to a premium player on the Island to come to Ithaca was compelling--get an Ivy degree and play for a national championship contender. Today, with full or partial scholarship aid being offered, regardless of parental finances, at Duke, ND, Michigan, NC, UVA, etc., etc., and those schools much more credible as championship contenders than the Big Red, who among the best players gets very excited about an offer from Cornell (or Brown, Dartmouth or Penn for that matter) with very little financial backing? HYP prestige may keep those teams from getting crushed in recruiting competition by above named Public Ivies, or Near Ivies, but I fear the rest of the League may well be on its way to the dustbin of lax history.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: and Syracuse has better tech


Author:
al's wingman
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Date Posted: 19:44:10 04/12/17 Wed

It would be hard to dominate LI LAX recruiting with the number of options kids have these days.

I still think Cornell's down season is not that big an aberration. There is not a giant gap between Cornell and the top 10. They need some defensive help but I see speed, skill and intensity. They have good players, no reason to believe recruiting is dropping off. It's a team game so every program needs the right fit.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: #1 Syracuse over Cornell 15-8


Author:
Sprint66
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Date Posted: 21:54:29 04/12/17 Wed

I have been following Cornell football, basketball, hockey and lacrosse since I was a kid. Over the years I have watched some great Big Red teams from the Marinaro years, Richie Moran's NCAA lacrosse championship teams, and 2010 basketball run to the Sweet 16. However, overall Cornell athletics has been on a long term decline. Hockey is still competitive, but all the other teams above have posted losing seasons again this year. Lots of reasons from lack of administrative support, poor media coverage, deteriorating facilities, ongoing coaching turnover and just overall apathy. I know many at Cornell probably think I am just a trouble maker, but all I want is some of our teams to win! I am tired of being the laughing stock of Upstate NY college sports.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: #1 Syracuse over Cornell 15-8


Author:
KC
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Date Posted: 00:17:43 04/13/17 Thu

Sprint - I really appreciate and agree with your passion for Big Red athletics, but I don't think that the facts support your allegation that Cornell athletics have been and still are on a long-term decline.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: #1 Syracuse over Cornell 15-8


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 01:30:58 04/13/17 Thu

Highlights of the game: https://youtu.be/zb9xMtBnpHY

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[> Subject: Ivy vs. NCAA LAX computer ratings, over time


Author:
voy vey
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Date Posted: 09:18:10 04/13/17 Thu

Massey Computer Ratings, D-1 College Lacross, by year.
"Central mean ranking" is a weighted measure of the "average" ranking of an Ivy team among all D-1 lacrosse teams in Massey's lacrosse ratings.
Since the # of D-1 teams varies each year, I also provide the percentile (50th percentile would mean that the typical Ivy team was exactly in the middle of D-1. A lower mean = better than average.)

http://masseyratings.com/clax/ncaa-d1/ratings
2017 -- 71 D-1 teams Ivy rankings:
Pr-13 Y-15 B-25 Pn-28 H-34 Cor-40 D-65
Ivy Central mean ranking: 29.8 (42nd percentile of all teams)

http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=clax2016&sub=11590
2016 -- 70 D-1 teams Ivy rankings:
B-3 Y-6 H-17 Pn-24 Cor-30 Pr-35 D-67
Ivy Central mean ranking: 24.3 (35th percentile of all teams)

http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=clax2015&sub=11590
2015 -- 62 D-1 teams Ivy rankings:
Y-10 Pr-14 B-16 Cor-17 H-22 Pn-28 D-51
Ivy Central mean ranking: 20.4 (33rd percentile of all teams)

http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=clax2014&sub=11590
2014 -- 67 D-1 teams Ivy rankings:
Pn-8 Cor-13 H-16 Y-19 Pr-20 B-26 D-54
Ivy Central mean ranking: 20.3 (30th percentile of all teams)

http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=clax2013&sub=11590
2013 -- 61 D-1 teams Ivy rankings:
Cor-3 Y-6 Pr-8 Pn-12 B-24 H-26 D-42
Ivy Central mean ranking: 15.8 (26th percentile of all teams)

http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=clax2012&sub=11590
2012 -- 60 D-1 teams Ivy rankings:
Y-9 Pr-13 Cor-15 B-28 H-30 Pn-31 D-33
Ivy Central mean ranking: 23.5 (39th percentile of all teams)

I was going to calculate five years, but decided to go back six years to avoid the appearance of cherry-picked data. That doesn't change the fact that:

The mean performance of Ivy LAX vs. all of D-1 has decreased for the past five years.

And even though 2012 was a middling year for the League overall, it's worth noting that in 2012, ALL of the teams were in or very close to the upper-half of D-1.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Ivy vs. NCAA LAX computer ratings, over time


Author:
observer
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Date Posted: 10:41:27 04/13/17 Thu

The big takeaway here is that even with expansion over the past decade, very few schools compete in the sport at all, especially Power 5 schools. If the Pac 12, Big 12 or SEC ever got into lacrosse, goodbye Ivy competitive advantage.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Ivy vs. NCAA LAX computer ratings, over time


Author:
Diogenes (voy vey)
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Date Posted: 11:06:11 04/13/17 Thu

Thank you for taking the time to put those very revealing numbers together. Would it be a fair to compare Ivy lacrosse to PAC-12 football?

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivy vs. NCAA LAX computer ratings, over time


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 12:30:50 04/13/17 Thu

I don't attend these ivy games, but I will look into it if they have cheerleaders comparable to the Pac 12.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivy vs. NCAA LAX computer ratings, over time


Author:
Diogenes (Calvin)
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Date Posted: 13:01:37 04/13/17 Thu

I'll go to Ivy League golf matches if they have anyone who looks like Sergio's fiancee.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivy vs. NCAA LAX computer ratings, over time


Author:
Sr Punter
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Date Posted: 20:27:24 04/13/17 Thu

I have been to Ivy golf matches and they do have participants who look like both Sergio and his fiancee.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: News we can use


Author:
Diogenes (Sr Punter)
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Date Posted: 05:23:21 04/14/17 Fri

Short skirts, Sergio and Ivy golf. The Convergence.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: News we can use


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 10:12:23 04/14/17 Fri

Was that a skirt, or a handkerchief drafted into emergency service?

You have an eye for detail.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I thought it was one of the Seven Veils


Author:
Diogenes (Calvin)
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Date Posted: 12:53:18 04/14/17 Fri


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[> [> Subject: Re: Ivy vs. NCAA LAX computer ratings, over time


Author:
al's wingman
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Date Posted: 15:56:54 04/13/17 Thu

Interesting numbers. Ivies used to have a reputation as premier LAX schools for high achievers to play at. Now choices are much greater.

Bottom line is LAX is almost but not quite a deep sport for recruiting. If you go back a few decades, neither was football or soccer. We all know what happened there. It also took awhile for ice hockey to gain traction with organized leagues kids could play in and become groomed for collegiate level play. On the women's side lots of team sports are booming successfully.

Men's LAX is primed for a bigger expansion. There are a few hundred schools nationwide playing in the Men's Collegiate Lacrosse Association (MCLA) which is not varsity but not a whole lot different than the lower top 20 and outliers of DI and all of DII and III. They have coaches and playing fields. What is missing is the funding for things like recruiting and locker rooms, overall more structure around the program.

More teams will be added every year to Di so in a decade LAX will look the same as the other nationwide sports.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivy vs. NCAA LAX computer ratings, over time


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 16:20:56 04/13/17 Thu

On the one hand, if men's lacrosse expands to big conference schools, I agree that womens' expansion shows that schools with club teams can progress rapidliy. Florida, Colorado and Southern Cal all former club teams but ranked top 10 currently in D1. The former men's club team at Michigan is rapidly improving too.

But on the other hand, Title IX has always been cited as holding back more schools from adding a mens team and I don't see that changing.

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[> Subject: Re: Lacrosse Saturday 4/1


Author:
Sprint66
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Date Posted: 18:56:43 04/13/17 Thu

Lots of lacrosse talent right here in Upstate New York. Just ask #1 Syracuse and #5 Albany, who scoop up all the talent. Both teams are regularly on Time Warner Sports, where Cornell is never on television. Cornell lacrosse is barely even mentioned in the local newspapers despite all this lax talent in New York State and Ontario. Nearly every neighborhood up here has lacrosse goals on their front lawns and last year I attended a high school game with over 6,000 fans. Once again Cornell athletics is "Out of sight and out of mind". That's why we're getting our A... kicked by Syracuse, Hobart, and Albany. It's just ain't that complicated.

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[> [> Subject: Chill


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 21:11:58 04/13/17 Thu

Cornell has lost to Hobart, what, once in the last 20 years? It's a rivalry, you cannot expect to win every year in perpetuity.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Lacrosse Saturday 4/1


Author:
Sprint66
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Date Posted: 22:15:53 04/13/17 Thu

Under Ben Deluca Cornell was 14-4 with a tight loss to Duke 14-16 in the Final 4. Kerwick has been head coach now for four seasons and the program has been in steady decline ever since. It was obvious back in 2015 when we got throttled by Albany in the first round of the playoffs 10-19. Last year we finished 6-7 and this year we're 3-7. We have some talented players, but no face off man or defense. Against Syracuse on Tuesday our all-league goalie Christian Knight (who was recruited by Deluca) was facing one on one shots nearly the entire second half. I am fine with a bad season or two, but this program is going backwards not forward.

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