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Subject: Cornell vs Syracuse


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 01:53:57 04/09/17 Sun
In reply to: sparman 's message, "Lacrosse Saturday 4/1" on 14:09:48 04/01/17 Sat

A Cornell win over 'Cuse would be the best spoiler win of the season for the Big Red. Syracuse needs that game to be considered for the #1 ranking.

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Replies:
[> [> Subject: Re: Cornell vs Syracuse


Author:
Memphis Bill
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Date Posted: 09:40:27 04/09/17 Sun

To Al's Wingman:

Don't count on it. Ivies' slide this season to possible one bid status in NCAA lax tourney is traceable to Achilles' heel that impacts all Ivy sports--caps on coaches' salaries. Lax programs in BIG and ACC that easily assemble half million (and up) pay packages are going to get better coaches, in part by luring top Ivy mentors to them (see recent experiences at Brown and Harvard).

Imagine the kind of money that would be waved in front of Blackman, Carrill, or Richie Moran if they coached today instead of Halcyon days of our League's first quarter century.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Cornell vs Syracuse


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 11:15:06 04/09/17 Sun

I think you have a point, although ivy contenders have done OK versus ACC teams this year (Penn beating UVA, Yale losing by 1 to MD and Cornell in OT to UVA).

But we have seen how some schools can mostly compensate (pun intended) the salary issue, witness Amaker at Harvard. In lacrosse, I think the bigger issue is recruiting, both in terms of how much latitude, and also how early the big schools sign players - as early as 9th or even 8th grade. Ivies get commitments as early as 10th grade but it's not quite the same because there is always an academic contingency.

Anyway, I think Yale probably gets a 2d bid if they don't win the ILT, and Princeton might, if they win out and lose only in the finals of the ILT, but that may depend on results of other teams. In future years, they (and other ivies) have to schedule another ranked team and win the game. Either Rutgers or Hofstra would have been good Ws this year.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Cornell vs Syracuse


Author:
Drew90
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Date Posted: 13:12:24 04/09/17 Sun

Excuses, excuses...Princeton has 2 9th grade recruits this year and nearly all the teams you recruit against (Hop, UVA, ND, Duke) have an academic contingency...at least 1 player a year disappears from above school recruit list due to failure to hit SAT cutoff or GPA.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Cornell vs Syracuse


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 19:24:03 04/09/17 Sun

If you are saying that all the schools you list have the same academic standards as ivies, i say you are wrong.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Cornell vs Syracuse


Author:
Drew24
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Date Posted: 15:12:19 04/11/17 Tue

I didn't say that -- you said academic contingencies. All those schools have them. Every recruit at the schools have to hit certain GPA and SAT - those vary depending on player. In fact, a player might be asked to hit 1300 or 1400 at one school and a lower number at another school depending upon how they view that recruit versus rest of class. Non-Ivies might not have AI but in non-revenue sports in particular employ similar approach to getting to an average GPA and SAT.

Moreover, you brought up frosh recruiting. Princeton, Penn, Brown and Cornell all have frosh recruits. Duke as an example has none.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Cornell vs Syracuse


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 12:55:50 04/09/17 Sun

Never mind other college programs, Carril turned down the Celtics at least once.

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[> [> Subject: Ivies Are Doing Fine In Lacrosse


Author:
Upper Valley
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Date Posted: 16:52:58 04/09/17 Sun

Sure, we might only get one bid to the NCAA tournament this year. But I think it's premature to say that the Ivy League is losing ground relative to other conferences in this sport. Indeed, I think that, evaluating Ivy lacrosse across a meaningful sample size of years, say, half a dozen, the League is getting better, not worse.

Cornell will not stay down. On that, I am fully confident. Too much history and too much local high school talent for that to continue indefinitely. Yale has gotten mysteriously better under the same coach who produced mediocre results for years. Good for him; sometimes it takes you a while to grow into a job. Penn seems to have stepped up in a fairly permanent way. Princeton looked as though it would return to whence it was before Tierney arrived but, for at least the next four years, they have Sowers. And he is a difference maker, the kind of singular player who will not just win games but change a program.

Ivy lacrosse is not getting worse; it's getting better.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivies Are Doing Fine In Lacrosse


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 21:36:30 04/09/17 Sun

I'm no expert in college lacrosse. I just watch some highlights on youtube and the occasional full game when available. It seems to me Yale has some very good talent that is playing well together this season. Sometimes that is all it takes. A down season for Cornell is not the end of the line for them by any stretch. Brown is not a good team this year but destroyed Johns Hopkins in the playoffs last season, beat Navy and gave Maryland and a very competitive game to be a step away from the championship game. I don't think the LAX pool of talent is that deep where any team in DI is that much further away from the traditional powerhouses.

I don't know where Notre Dame would fit into the equation but they are an example of a program with all the money and scholarships that are permitted. They have a ton of talent but seem to choke when it counts. They have not done much with what they have (could the coaching, they seem to mostly play conservative all things considered).

You just need a few guys in this sport to play well as a team to turn a season around.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivies Are Doing Fine In Lacrosse


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 12:15:23 04/10/17 Mon

Not quite to the degree of hockey, but you can't win consistently at the top 20 level without an above-average goalie; an All-American goalie can win 2-3 games on his own.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivies Are Doing Fine In Lacrosse


Author:
al's wingman
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Date Posted: 16:48:21 04/10/17 Mon

It would be interesting to know what the differences are between a lacrosse shot 10-15-20 years ago and what it is now. It seems there are some notable improvements in the technology of the sticks and heads perhaps contributing to better torque on shots. I recall seeing games 20 years ago and the ball did not seem to go 100MPH the way it does today. Are the kids stronger? Better shooting technique? It seems there is very little a goalie can do to stop a lacrosse shot. The better players shoot with incredible accuracy and power.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivies Are Doing Fine In Lacrosse


Author:
Sprint66
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Date Posted: 20:36:39 04/10/17 Mon

The reason why we're seeing such high scoring games today is midfielders and defensemen are no longer allowed to hit like they did 20 years ago. It drives me crazy when a player makes a clean hit and they draw a two minute penalty. Lacrosse is supposed to be a contact sport like hockey and taking the physicality out of the game hurts it's growth. Lacrosse is a contact sport with helmets and pads, get rid of the soccer players and bring back the game the way it is supposed to be played.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivies Are Doing Fine In Lacrosse


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 21:33:49 04/10/17 Mon

I'm seeing plenty of hitting. It is the head shots (elbow or stick) that draws the contact fouls. I really do wonder if the stick tech of today gives players a shooting velocity advantage.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivies Are Doing Fine In Lacrosse


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 21:42:54 04/10/17 Mon

Yes, stick technology gives a big advantage in both velocity and ability to maintain possession, despite even hard checks.

But a big disadvantage in shooting accuracy.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivies Are Doing Fine In Lacrosse


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 23:51:55 04/10/17 Mon

I have never, ever, in the Ivies seen anything scarier than Jesse Hubbard winding up after a perfect feed from Jon Hess. Never. Ever.

That was twenty years ago.

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