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Subject: Darien and Greenwich


Author:
Tod Howard Hawks
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Date Posted: 00:14:29 06/11/17 Sun
In reply to: holtsledge 's message, "winner and still champ" on 17:23:46 06/10/17 Sat

At Andover, from which I graduated in 1962, I can remember several handsful of fellow students, specifically from Darien and Greenwich, whose individual and collective mean- spiritedness poisoned the whole school, students and teachers alike. I remember countless acts of unkindness perpetrated by these students from Darien and Greenwich. In the main, this is why I chose to go to Columbia instead of Yale. Yale, in those years, would have been a continuation, I feared, of Andover. Columbia asked only to be myself. I made the right choice.

Tod Howard Hawks CC 66

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[> [> Subject: Re: Darien and Greenwich, Ivy League colleges, "Too Many DBs"


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 10:14:42 06/11/17 Sun

THH, I agree with you. Many people who attend elite colleges and enter intense occupations do so with the express objective of winding up in a beautiful wealthy town where the schools are great, the town facilities are extensive and, not least, other successful people can be found to further one's career.

But the cost of living in these towns, besides financial, can sometimes be psychological. A good friend of mine sold his beautiful house in one of these exclusive Fairfield County towns and moved to a suburb further afield. When I asked him why he would extend his commute so drastically, he replied simply, "Too many douche bags."

I don't know what can be done about this feature of the stereotypical American rat race. People aspire to attend an elite college in part because their fellow students will be ambitious, high achieving and in many cases aggressive. That can indeed correlate with being a douche bag.

I think you characterize the difference between Yale and Columbia fairly. Many talented students select Columbia in some part so that they can go to college in an exciting, stimulating city which also offers anonymity. In contrast, very few people pick Yale because they think it offers anonymity.

This critical difference is both a strength and a weakness for Columbia. Almost all Yalies go to Yale to be a part of Yale, for better and as you point out also for worse. Many kids select Columbia so that they can blend into the city around them. That's one of the reasons why the alumni giving rate at Columbia is so low. Students identify with New York City more than they identify with Columbia.

Years later, I'll bet that the percentage of Yale graduates who end up in these exclusive suburbs probably is higher than the percentage of Columbia graduates. The same kids who self-select for Columbia are less likely to say, "You know, I want to live in Darien so my kid can start playing competitive lacrosse in second grade and I can shovel thousands of dollars a year to further his or her lacrosse career so that, when he or she is in high school, there is a chance he or she will be on the top lax team in the country."

This is absolutely a difference between attending Columbia and winding up years later in a place like Darien. This may or may not be sad, but I think more high school kids will instinctively opt for the more intense rat race, not necessarily recognizing the choice that they are making until they arrive on campus in New Haven.

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[> [> Subject: eh not sure


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 12:00:36 06/11/17 Sun

A bit whiny tad, Andover is an elite prep school that 99.9 % of the people in this world including me had or have little or no chance of attending. Small class sizes are just one advantage. I went to catholic HS and we had over 30 in every class. I bet you didn't have over 15. If it was so bad why didn't you ask your parents to send you somewhere else.

No doubt there are a lot of douche bags populating lower Fairfield county perhaps I am one of them. I doubt it since I spent most all of my working career in the small mining towns of W PA and WV living out there for almost 10 yr.

I have lived here for almost 35 yrs, my daughter has MSW & MPH and works for a non profit. My son used to work for hedge fund in Greenwich and now is a trader in ATL. I think despite the distractions I raised my kids to be outstanding citizens, one is a lefty the other wants to make America great again so they cancel each other out LOL

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[> [> [> Subject: To an observer and holtsledge


Author:
Tod Howard Hawks
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Date Posted: 16:01:28 06/11/17 Sun

An observer: Thank you for your thoughtful response to my post. On balance, I think your commentary was accurate.

Holtsledge: You asked, why didn't I go somewhere else. In short, I was at Andover because that's where my Dad wanted me to be; and at that time in my life, I didn't have the guts to defy him. It took me quite a while to become my own man; Columbia was the first step.

Moreover, your kids grew up to be "outstanding citizens." My bet is that the reason that happened is because they had a good father.

Tod Howard Hawks CC 66

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[> [> [> [> Subject: nah


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 14:42:40 06/15/17 Thu

has much more to do with their mother than me

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: BTW Tod


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 15:35:01 06/15/17 Thu

my daughter has volunteered at this camp for 8 yrs. They just had their big fundraiser at Chelsea Piers couple of weeks ago. Next year I will drag you along, bc it is a very worthy cause
https://elm-project.org/

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[> [> [> [> Subject: What You Can Learn At a Cocktail Party


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 12:47:29 06/16/17 Fri

I went to a cocktail party Wednesday night and chatted with a father whose eight-year old daughter attends lacrosse camps with mine. I said that, at their age, the girls don't have the hand-eye coordination to really "play" lacrosse, they just chase the ball around the field.

Without batting an eye, the other father said, "I don't care if they can pass or catch, I want her to learn early on that life is all about competition."

I thought back to this thread and said, "Yup, that's why these towns are like these towns, great lacrosse, DBs and all."

I don't know where the other father went to college but, no surprise, I know it wasn't Columbia because he played lax in college.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: What You Can Learn At a Cocktail Party


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 15:44:02 06/17/17 Sat

we need to have lunch, I promise I won't blow your cover or stalk you :). I appreciate your perspective on this area and would like to talk more. I would invite you to play golf at WFGC but I am on the DL with really sore bicep tendon that hopefully is just a strain and not partial tear. It happened on a shot out of the deep rough hit it well but stopped playing two holes later

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