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Subject: Re: btw


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 10:39:19 06/20/17 Tue
In reply to: holtsledge 's message, "btw" on 09:41:39 06/20/17 Tue

Will it be worth it if he gets his NC trophy? From watching the TV, it doesn't seem like being a reserve bothers too many players who storm the court after winning the big one.

Plus, and not that they are equal, it seems like he has a better chance of getting that trophy than an Ivy championship.

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Replies:
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Not according to some people...


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 10:53:53 06/20/17 Tue


All we have to do is take fourth, qualify for the Ivy tournament, and then its complete random chance from there.

:)

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Based on past performances


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 11:07:54 06/20/17 Tue

Fourth place hardly seems likely.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Yep


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 11:21:44 06/20/17 Tue


It wasn't like we were still alive for the tournament on the last day of the regular season or that we're bringing everyone of significance back for 2017-18.

No, sir.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Yep


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 12:21:16 06/20/17 Tue

UNC winning the NC seems more likely to me than DC getting 4th in the ivies next year.

I suspect few people would agree with you that DC will be improved versus the top 4 from last year. If you didn't notice, #4 Penn got a lot better as the season went on and they have solid recruits coming in; their trajectory looks good. Columbia has a solid recruiting class, some claim it as the League's best. If I were you (oh Lord, the humanity), I'd be worried about Cornell passing DC in the near future. You seem to ignore that "everyone of significance" produced a 4-10 record, after all.

Ultimately the question isn't what you or I think, it's what the player thinks. "Hmmmm, possibly sneaking in a 4th place in the ivies with a losing record and then a long shot at the ivy championship, versus a very good shot at the National Championship. How to decide?" Not a hard calculus from the basketball perspective that seems to be motivating him.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Yep


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 12:41:13 06/20/17 Tue

Gotta go with Calvin on this one.

North Carolina played in the last two national championships game. It took a Kris Jenkins buzzer beater to lose the first one. The Tar Heels are not too far from being the two-time defending national champion as we speak.

Sure, a national championship sounds like more of a reach than a mere Ivy title. But programs like the Tar Heels can realistically think that way more than Dartmouth can realistically think of an Ivy trophy, or even playing at The Palestra next March.

Alabama football will win its next national championship before Dartmouth football wins its next Ivy title. You can book it.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: You brought it up, not me


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 12:49:45 06/20/17 Tue


I'll take Dartmouth achieving fourth over any single team winning the NC next season.

Penn should indeed be improved next season. Maybe even good enough to earn a split against Dartmouth.

Should also add that if you want to ask someone whether its more fun to be scrub for a NC or join probably-not-ready-for-prime-time Dartmouth, we can always go ask an expert:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawford_Palmer

And this is a guy who actually did see playing time--albeit not much--for the reigning ACC power.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: You brought it up, not me


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 12:52:48 06/20/17 Tue

I think that the right expert to consult on this question is Andrew Hatch.

"Andrew, which option would you be more willing to forego? Telling prospective employers about your Harvard degree or recounting to attractive young women stories of your winning the national championship at LSU?"

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Extrapolation for $100, Alex


Author:
Clavin
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Date Posted: 15:40:39 06/20/17 Tue

I never cease to be amazed how, with an apparent straight face, you construct arguments based on what someone else says or did, ergo it must be true for everyone else, too. Law school, even in western PA, must provide some powerful antidote to common sense.

Crawford Palmer is (was, 30 years ago) his own case. Walker Miller is his own case. Young Mr. Miller has made his decision, right or wrong (I think basketball is the wrong standard, but I'm neither 18 nor Mr. Miller). He has decided the chance of sneaking into that ivy tournament does not equal his chance of being on a NC team. I doubt a phone call from Palmer would change his mind.

Here's an offer for you, if you are truly serious (versus merely being argumentative because you love arguing). If Dartmouth finishes 4th or higher in the League next year, I will cease posting for 3 months. If they don't, you will cease for 3 months. Deal?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: How about this?


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 15:56:19 06/20/17 Tue


Pick any college basketball team you want. Duke, UNC, Gonzaga, whoever.

If they finish closer to winning the NC than Dartmouth does finishing fourth in the Ivy, I will stop posting for three months. If Dartmouth is closer, then you stop for three months.

And if your team wins the NC and Dartmouth finishes fourth or better, then its a draw.

Deal?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Mutual suicide pacts don't work well for either party


Author:
Diogenes
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Date Posted: 16:17:10 06/20/17 Tue


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I've got my popcorn


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 20:24:14 06/20/17 Tue

I thought Dartmouth guys liked a good food fight? Are you telling me Animal House was inaccurate?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: My offer was simple and clear


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 17:32:02 06/20/17 Tue

How could anyone ever determine how a team finishes "closer"? Why try to complicate matters or leave a lawyer's "out"?

If you are so certain, then say yes to my very simple and unambiguous offer. If you don't accept, it's clear you don't truly believe what you have claimed.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: You mean this?


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 18:35:16 06/20/17 Tue


"I'll take Dartmouth achieving fourth over any single team winning the NC next season."

Which of course was in response to your claim that "UNC winning the NC seems more likely to me than DC getting 4th in the ivies next year."

Even AO thinks you should take the bet.

As for "closer," what exactly was your definition when you made your claim that UNC was more likely to win the NC than Dartmouth was to take fourth?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Based on past performances


Author:
Diogenes
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Date Posted: 11:35:43 06/20/17 Tue

Dartmouth showed excellent improvement last year. If that leads to continued progress, fourth place is well within reach.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: UNC is a mecca for athletes


Author:
al's wingman
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Date Posted: 14:53:52 06/20/17 Tue

...at least it used to be before the football grades scandal. UNC has historically lavished student athletes with lots of perks. It is a great place for a mid level bball player to sit on a plush bench and live very well.

I'm no fan though I don't begrudge them for taking advantage of every nook and cranny of legal and borderline "legal" stretch of the imagination possible to be competitive in as many sports as they can - since the 70s.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: UNC is a mecca for athletes


Author:
Drew2411
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Date Posted: 17:35:04 06/20/17 Tue

Football grades scandal? The African American Independent Studies scam was developed by and for UNC men's basketball full stop. Every key player on 05 and 09 took advantage of scam.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: UNC is a mecca for athletes


Author:
al's wingman
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Date Posted: 19:02:56 06/20/17 Tue

the fake classes covered a few sports. for an allegedly prestigious university they had a passion for winning at any cost.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: UNC is a mecca for athletes


Author:
Drew2411
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Date Posted: 19:21:29 06/21/17 Wed

True...once it was put in place, women's soccer, basketball, football and baseball took advantage but it was created for men's hoop

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: UNC is a mecca for athletes


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 23:05:20 06/21/17 Wed

woah, women's soccer? seriously? I have a history in the sport having been a coach and financier of amateur teams. I know head coach (since the 70s) Anson Dorrance and 100% certain he would never allow that with any of his players. On the average, women's soccer players are good students and don't need fraud to get by. They welcome a full scholarship of course but they earn it.

UNC used to completely dominate women's DI soccer. The rest of the pack has caught up. West Virginia beat them in the tournament this year. There was a time the very thought of that would be laughed at.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: UNC is a mecca for athletes


Author:
Drew2411
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Date Posted: 18:11:44 06/23/17 Fri

Read the Weinstein Report...Anson personally has emails pushing for these faux independent classes. Some will say the reason for the fall off in UNC soccer is tied to the crack down on these classes.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: UNC is a mecca for athletes


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 21:27:33 06/24/17 Sat

I didn't deep dive into that report but I'm not seeing anything glaring or definitive. Any way it is looked at it is a largely bogus claim to include women's soccer in that scandal. That program has absolutely at no time ever needed to rely on anything fraudulent to recruit and retain top talent. Perhaps most telling is the fake classes were set up specifically in the afro-american dept. Not to be insensitive but that diminishes the pool of possible women's soccer students involved. It just doesn't add up. The process is a student athlete gets admitted to the program the same as any student. There's just no scenario that would put a student athlete in a situation that is different from her peers in the soccer program.

I know Anson Dorrance has his detractors but he's far from dumb. He wouldn't risk his career on anything like that. What's in it for any coach to do that unless they needed the talent enrolled at any cost?

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