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Subject: 150th College Football "Celebration"


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 11:16:58 06/28/17 Wed

Mollie Marcoux Samaan, Princeton AD, has been named to the celebration committee, but she didn't even have the vision to schedule a commemorative game with Rutgers. She thought playing Dartmouth at Yankee stadium was an acceptable substitute. I'm sure the sports world will be riveted to that game.

http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/sports/fball/2016-17/releases/Ivy_League_to_be_Featured_in_College_Football

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Replies:
[> Subject: Is Marcoux really the villain here?


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 11:26:20 06/28/17 Wed


Surace has made clear that he wants nothing to do with Rutgers.

I suppose Marcoux could be faulted for not overruling him. But I think that's being a bit harsh...

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[> Subject: Re: 150th College Football "Celebration"


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 11:28:49 06/28/17 Wed

I'm mad at them both for squandering the Ivy League's last chance to play in the national spotlight. However, I agree it was mainly Surace's fault.

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[> [> Subject: Re: 150th College Football "Celebration"


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 12:14:50 06/28/17 Wed

The USA Today Sagarin rankings have 128th ranked Princeton beating Rutgers last year by two points if game was played at #156 ranked Rutgers. Meanwhile Howard is ranked #247. Click enter full site using link below:

https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/sagarin/
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[> [> [> Subject: Saban and Harbaugh


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 13:38:55 06/28/17 Wed

Two quick observations from the Sagarin rankings:

(1) Even after losing to Clemson in the national championship game, Alabama is still a four-point favorite over the Tigers and a full touchdown favorite over #3 Michigan. The Alabama machine is truly something to behold. Nick Saban, you do what you do very well.

(2) That Harbaugh can have the Wolverines the third best team in the country two years after inheriting a complete mess is just another step in a career of amazing turnarounds. There is no better coach than Nick Saban in terms of feeding the monster and keeping it hungry, but Harbaugh's repeated miracle worker performances are perhaps even more impressive.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Saban and Harbaugh


Author:
Son of EIi
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Date Posted: 14:58:10 06/28/17 Wed

And I bet that if Harbaugh was offered an opportunity to play Ruthers when he was coaching San Diego he would have taken it.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Saban and Harbaugh


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 14:59:08 06/28/17 Wed

I meant Rutgers not Ruthers.

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[> Subject: Re: 150th College Football "Celebration"


Author:
Unknown
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Date Posted: 11:48:01 06/28/17 Wed

Even a great Princeton team could not defeat a terrible Rutgers team. Rutgers beat Howard 52-14 last season and I would expect a similar outcome against the Tigers. Surace would risk his reputation and the players' health if he were to schedule that contest.

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[> [> Subject: Not So


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 12:11:43 06/28/17 Wed

The USA Today Sagarin rankings have 128th ranked Princeton beating Rutgers last year by two points if game was played at #156 ranked Rutgers. Meanwhile Howard is ranked #247. Click enter full site using link below:

https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/sagarin/

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Not So


Author:
Unknown
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Date Posted: 12:20:56 06/28/17 Wed

Rutgers also beat New Mexico, a 9-4 squad that was ranked #76 on Sagarin. I see a number of teams ranked below Princeton on that list that would beat them: Connecticut, Montana, UNLV, Grambling State, Rice, UTEP etc.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Not So


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 12:22:48 06/28/17 Wed

I guess you know something Sagarin doesn't then.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Not So


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 12:27:18 06/28/17 Wed

Of course, just because Sagarin says that Team A will beat Team B does not mean that it will happen. But, overall, Sagarin's track record is excellent. Let's put it this way: His error distribution is normally shaped around his predicted outcome. That's all you can really ask of a statistician.

Princeton 2016 may not have beaten Rutgers 2016 at New Brunswick. But, because of Sagarin's calculations, I feel very confident in saying that it would have been a competitive game.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Not So


Author:
Son of Elin
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Date Posted: 12:35:47 06/28/17 Wed

And btw, was the Howard coach fired after losing this game? I think his reputation is intact. Surace's reputation is damaged more by declining this game than by getting defeated on the field, regardless of the score.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: You might be Elin's son


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 15:44:46 06/28/17 Wed

But is Tiger Woods your daddy?

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[> [> Subject: Re: 150th College Football "Celebration"


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 12:39:08 06/28/17 Wed

The attitude of poster "Unknown" is why Surace would not be risking his reputation or that of Princeton football if he schedules Rutgers. The casual fan would expect any member of any Power Five conference to easily defeat any FCS team, to say nothing of an Ivy League team, which of course just screams "pocket protector."

But the serious fan should know that the top teams in the Ivy League, as determined over a few years rather than necessarily any given single season, are as good as the very bottom of the Power Five conferences.

And right now, Rutgers is at the very bottom of the Power Five conferences.

The only real risk that I see for Surace and Princeton is injuries. That's why it makes sense to play the commemorative Princeton-Rutgers game on the FIRST Saturday of the 2019 season, in late August. Princeton players would have four weeks to heal dings and nicks before their second game of the season in late September.

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[> [> Subject: Princeton vs Rutgers


Author:
al's wingman
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Date Posted: 13:23:36 06/28/17 Wed

There is another thread here that discusses the potential matchup more in depth but bottom line is you never know. Despite having scholarship talent Rutgers has fielded some incredibly bad teams. When guys are not motivated or dysfunction prevails, that opens the door for anything.

Princeton may very well have a shot in such a game though I do agree with Surace, no reason to risk injury against more physically inclined opponents.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Princeton vs Rutgers


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 15:02:47 06/28/17 Wed

Here's an idea following that logic, Surace can start playing Division III teams. That wil cut down on the chance of injury to his players.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Princeton vs Rutgers


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 15:17:58 06/28/17 Wed


How many of the 1986 Princeton guys ended up in the hospital after playing Northwestern?

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Princeton vs Rutgers


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 15:30:25 06/28/17 Wed

Good point. And the 2016 Princeton team is much bigger and better than the 1986 team.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Princeton vs Rutgers


Author:
Al's Wingman
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Date Posted: 01:33:28 06/29/17 Thu

You don't have to end up in the hospital to get beat up. On the average, very few players in any games end up in the hospital so that's a stupid comment. If you understood what it takes athletically to compete in games then maybe we can talk about logic. Princeton vs Rutgers is not a meaningful exercise in football. Good scheduling is one criteria for good leadership.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Yeah...


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 07:52:34 06/29/17 Thu


I only own three Ivy League championship rings. What do I know about competing?

Playing Rutgers is not materially different from playing UNH, Villanova, or Army.

Is Rutgers a step up from the PFL? Sure. But it's not like they're the Patriots...

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Yeah...


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 09:24:24 06/29/17 Thu

Way to go Go Green!

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[> [> Subject: Re: 150th College Football "Celebration"


Author:
Unknown
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Date Posted: 18:40:03 06/28/17 Wed

I'd like to see the matchup just to witness somebody finally smash Lovett.

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[> [> [> Subject: Why?


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 20:28:03 06/28/17 Wed


He hasn't said anything even remotely obnoxious.

At least not to the press...

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: 150th College Football "Celebration"


Author:
Eastern Sports Fan
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Date Posted: 16:46:59 06/30/17 Fri

Bet Princeton can beat Rutgers in soccer, and that's what they're celebrating on the 150th anyway.

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[> Subject: Re: 150th College Football "Celebration"


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 13:00:07 06/28/17 Wed

Maybe this special committee she's on will persuade her to have Princeton play Rutgers in a commemorative game. Hopefully it's not too late to schedule it.

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[> [> Subject: why don't you have


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 15:42:38 06/28/17 Wed

Tony Romo schedule Rutgers if you are so hot for any ivy team to play them

although quite the occasion I come down on Surace's side. I bet Rutgers would be super motivate to try and kick the crap out of Princeton. I could see coach doing ever thing he could to run up the score and embarrass them as well

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: why don't you have


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 16:07:35 06/28/17 Wed

Reno had already scheduled Army and he tried to schedule UConn, so I'm sure he would jump at the chance to play Rutgers.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: why don't you have


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 16:14:29 06/28/17 Wed

And Reno has scheduled Richmond and Mercer. Both of these schools have better football teams than Rutgers.

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[> Subject: Re: 150th College Football "Celebration"


Author:
TigerTown
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Date Posted: 18:48:00 06/28/17 Wed

From the Star Ledger:

Rutgers and Princeton played in all but seven seasons from 1933 through 1980, with the Tigers leading the all-time series 53-17-1. They haven't met on the football field since 1980, about the time when Rutgers entered what then university president Edward Bloustein called the "bigger time'' football era.

A 150th-anniversary meeting between Rutgers and Princeton won't happen after Rutgers scheduled Massachusetts as its 2019 season opener.

I hear Ash wanted no part of the Tigers.

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[> [> Subject: Re: 150th College Football "Celebration"


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 23:04:39 06/28/17 Wed

Rutgers and Princeton talking about the 150th anniversary reminds me of the girlfriend I had when I changed jobs and moved several states away. She said, "I can't wait until we move. It's going to be so much fun." I had to start the awkward conversation that I planned to make the move alone. Nine months later, we were still dating long distance and I wanted her to join me but, by then, she had just gotten a nice promotion and she said no.

First, Rutgers wanted to play Princeton in the worst way when the previous regime was running things in New Brunswick, but Princeton demurred. Now Rutgers doesn't want to play, even if the new Princeton administration is more open minded. Too bad. It would have been great for the Ivy League.

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[> Subject: Re: 150th College Football "Celebration"


Author:
Newb
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Date Posted: 07:30:05 06/29/17 Thu

Wouldn't part of the issue with trying to schedule a Princeton-Rutgers matchup be that the Ivy League teams don't start playing until other teams are 3 games into the season? Rutgers probably only has room for 1 or 2 non-BIG 10 schools at the point Ivy teams get in the mix. The 10 game schedule with no bye week is nice for the Ivy League student athletes, but I imagine it makes scheduling somewhat less flexible and more complicated than it is for other schools. The longer the Ivy League sticks to its unique ways, I'm afraid we might be seeing more schools like Ohio Dominican on the Ivy schedules. I get that if those in charge really wanted to make the game happen, they could, but the Ivy League schedule certainly doesn't make it easy.

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[> [> Subject: I guess, but...


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 07:46:29 06/29/17 Thu


It's even tougher when the Ivy team's coach doesn't want the game in the first place.

Surace's opposition to the game is the main issue here. Everything else is a distant second.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: I guess, but...


Author:
TigerTown
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Date Posted: 08:38:54 06/29/17 Thu

GG-While I enjoy your commentary on so many topics, you are dead wrong on this one.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Perhaps


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 08:47:20 06/29/17 Thu


I'm not privy to what's been said in rooms.

But there have been several articles in the past few years pushing Princeton-Rutgers. Pretty much all of them either say or at least indicate that Princeton/Surace is the reason that the game is not happening.

If there's anything publicly available suggesting otherwise, I'm happy to look at it.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Perhaps


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 09:30:06 06/29/17 Thu

Take a look at the two-item sub-thread immediately above this one, from TigerTown and me.

Here are two relevant stories:

https://www.onthebanks.com/2017/5/17/15655366/rutgers-football-completes-2019-schedule-with-umass-as-princeton-dream-dead-big-ten-boston-college

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2017/05/rutgers_football_to_play_liberty_in_2019_season.html

My takeaway is that, initially, under the Flood regime at Rutgers, the Scarlet Knights wanted to play, but Surace demurred. Now under the new Ash administration in New Brunswick, it's clear that Rutgers no longer wants to play.

Surace may or may not feel differently, but his opinion is no longer relevant because Rutgers has closed the door. The clearest sign is that, just this past month, they signed a contract to play UMass on 31 August 2019, the most logical date for a Princeton game. This fills Rutgers' twelve-game 2019 regular season schedule.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Perhaps


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 09:52:37 06/29/17 Thu

As John Lennon sang "the dream is over."

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Perhaps


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 10:09:07 06/29/17 Thu

The fact that Rutgers scheduled Liberty belies the notion that Rutgers wasn't interested in playing Princeton in 2019. I would think Rutgers would prefer a game of national historical significance to playing Liberty. Certainly the NCAA would give bowl counter status to Princeton under the existing historical exception rule so there is no advantage for Rutgers to play Liberty over Princeton.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I'll give you Rutgers


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 10:04:46 06/29/17 Thu


Although given the full context of what we know of the discussions, Rutgers' recent statements saying that they didn't want the Princeton game anyway strikes me somewhere between sour grapes and face-saving.

The claim that Rutgers v. Princeton would be a "mismatch of epic proportions" would be more believable if Rutgers hadn't actually lost the last FCS team it played from the Northeast.

http://www.scarletknights.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/091104aaa.html

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: I'll give you Rutgers


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 10:16:22 06/29/17 Thu

I think that Rutgers is likely sincere when they say, even through back channels, that they don't want to play Princeton.

The reason has been articulated by Son of Eli, you, me and others. The game will likely be competitive and there is a real risk that Princeton wins. Had the anniversary been in 2016 and late in the season when both teams' profiles were evident, I'd like Princeton to win, even in New Brunswick.

That's a huge disincentive for Rutgers, suffering an embarrassing defeat not only on national television, but during a much hyped celebration game complete with fanfare and hoopla.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: I'll give you Rutgers


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 10:24:09 06/29/17 Thu

Agreed. The only reason Rutgers has to not play Princeton is that they are afraid they would suffer and embarrassing defeat with the country watching. The program is already reeling and they don't want to risk that. I get it. What I don't get was Surace's reluctance when Rutgers originally floated the idea back in 2015. Princeton should of struck while the iron was hot.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Next topic


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 10:41:16 06/29/17 Thu

Who will be the next Ivy Football coach to resign retire get fired?

I am going with Tony Romo

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: My Guess


Author:
bulldog10jw
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Date Posted: 11:18:32 06/29/17 Thu

Tim Tebow

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[> [> Subject: Re: 150th College Football "Celebration"


Author:
John Harvard
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Date Posted: 23:48:49 06/29/17 Thu

Times have changed:

Rutgers could have physically dominated Princeton a few years ago, a bad and dangerous situation for Princeton's opening game. Princeton had too much to lose.

Now, Rutgers has nothing to gain and everything to lose.

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