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Subject: Re: Columbia: The Athletic "Sleeping Giant" That Is Starting to Wake Up

The Mountain Lion
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Date Posted: 09:09:39 07/01/17 Sat
In reply to: Tod Howard Hawks 's message, "Columbia: The Athletic "Sleeping Giant" That Is Starting to Wake Up" on 20:21:08 06/30/17 Fri

Bollinger gets an A+ for finally supporting the football program and improvements at Baker Field. However, Bollinger has been a total disaster for the Columbia basketball program and all the other Columbia winter sports as he has done nothing to replace the antiquated Levien Gymnasium facility. Columbia needs desperately to construct a new world-class physical fitness facility for its winter teams and general student body. Until that happens, Bollinger's gets an F grade.

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[> [> Subject: Finding money to replace Levien

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Date Posted: 13:11:00 07/01/17 Sat

Prez. Bollinger has to find an alumnus willing to fork over $200 million for a new facility--easier said than done. I understand your frustration but an F grade is ridiculous and a bit insulting given how much he's done of the institution. You may not know it but Columbia's just started another $5 billion campaign just two years after finishing off a $6 billion campaign. I'm sure Mr. Pilling's got something up his sleeves.

To Observer, I quote a famous Monty Python line, "I fart in your general direction."

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[> [> [> Subject: Columbia's Future Prospects and Its Low Admit Rate

Upper Valley
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Date Posted: 14:10:50 07/01/17 Sat

Re: Observer, Harvard has been near the top for so long that a step toward the middle of the pack feels threatening and induces defensiveness.

Re: Our Columbia friends, the Lions have been at the bottom for so long that even a small step toward the middle of the pack feels exciting and inspiring, inducing optimism and more than a little exuberance.

Columbia fans should indeed be energized and forward-looking at this time. We'll see if the initial momentum can be translated into actual wins and then championships. I believe the future looks very bright.

It's interesting to read Tod refer to the possibility of Columbia's athletic fortunes one day matching its world class academic reputation. The favorite statistic of all Columbia students and alumni is its low admission rate.

But there are two influential factors which depress Columbia's admission rate independent of the draw of the Core Curriculum and the university itself. The obvious one is New York City, which draws young people like a flame attracts moths.

The more important but less obvious factor is sports. HYP and Stanford have their admission rates substantially increased by their large athletic programs. Applicants supported at the admission office by their coaches have an admit rate of nearly 100%. This dramatically distorts the overall admit rate for small schools with big athletic programs.

Look at the most extreme example: Princeton. A full 20% of the student body is a varsity athletic because the campus is small and the Tigers support 39 varsity sports. That's about 250 of the 31,000 applicants to Princeton which had an admit rate of 100%. Think about how low the admit rate was for the 30,750 non-athletes applicants. If an applicant is not a recruited athlete, Princeton must be the most selective college in the country. Next would be Harvard, then Stanford and Yale.

Columbia on the other hand has a larger overall student body and a smaller athletic program with 29 varsity sports. Athletic recruits don't impact the overall admit rate to the same extent.

It's New York City and a smaller athletic program which make Columbia look as selective as HYP and Stanford.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbia's Future Prospects and Its Low Admit Rate

Old Lion (Columbia Admissions)
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Date Posted: 18:22:53 07/01/17 Sat

You are misinformed. Columbia College has 4,400 students. It is either the smallest or second smallest college in the IL. That has been the case for years. Approximately 20 % of the class are recruited athletes. That leaves 900 places, give or take.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Columbia's Future Prospects and Its Low Admit Rate

Upper Valley
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Date Posted: 19:39:35 07/01/17 Sat

Columbia College is not the relevant denominator.

The relevant denominator is at least Columbia College plus the Fu Foundation School of Engineering and Applied Sciencesl, as those are the core undergraduate schools in which most of the athletes are enrolled. Arguably, if you are counting as the numerator both men and women athletes, you should include Barnard College as well since a significant minority of female athletes are enrolled at Barnard. Finally, since every year there are a handful of athletes plucked from the School of General Studies, the most inclusive yet still appropriate denominator would be:

Columbia College 4,644
Fu School 1,619

Minimum Subtotal 6,263

Barnard 2,573

Subtotal For Male and Female Athletes 8,836

General Studies 2,449

Maximum Total For Male and Female Athletes 11,285

Columbia's undergraduate student body including CC and Fu is definitely larger than Dartmouth, Princeton, Yale and Brown. If you include Barnard since we are measuring Columbia's 29 varsity teams including 15 women's teams, Columbia is also larger than Harvard.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Whatever the numbers

florida lion
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Date Posted: 07:50:59 07/02/17 Sun

It's clear that CU's are on the upswing. Upper Valley identifies the key factor, which is NYC. Beyond anything else, CU's fortunes are tied to those of the City. It had to be an almost impossible sell, at a least to parents, in the 70's, after the campus riots, with the Upper West Side in full decay and NYC facing bankruptcy. NYC is now being used a selling point.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: YMMV

Go Green
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Date Posted: 12:11:12 07/02/17 Sun

But I don't think that Yale is getting "nearly 100%" of their football recruits admitted.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Columbia: The Athletic "Sleeping Giant" That Is Starting to Wake Up

Tod Howard Hawks
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Date Posted: 16:36:57 07/01/17 Sat

Mountain Lion,

I agree with you about the plight of Levien.

Maybe Pilling can work his magic to bring about a world-class facility, which Columbia sorely needs.

If he can, look out--and up!

Tod Howard Hawks CC 66

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