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Subject: Re: Response to an archived U Chicago 2021 Football Recruiting Class Message


Author:
Observer15 (To Parent)
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Date Posted: 02:06:46 07/10/17 Mon
In reply to: Parent 's message, "Response to an archived U Chicago 2021 Football Recruiting Class Message" on 15:51:20 07/04/17 Tue

Thank you, Parent for your respectful and interesting letter.

First, let’s get this out of the way.

Please let us take off the table the quality of Chicago as a school. No one is debating that. It’s a great school! Period. Whether Chicago is “intellectually broader” and is a place where one is exposed to a ”broad range of ideas” more than this or that other school is a fine debate - I would have much to say about it - but it is irrelevant to the discussion about yield which is being discussed here.

Similarly, the issue about playing in the NFL - who imagines he will, what happens to them, etc etc.is irrelevant to this discussion. I accept easily that few students from the Ivies will be playing in the NFL. I still think there is a difference between Division III and 1AA athletes and also would have things to say about that,but again that is not the discussion that was raised.

The discussion raised had to do not with quality or character of school, but with yield, pure and simple. (By the way, it is yield that really matters -not application numbers. A school can have thousands of students who apply as a second choice, and so their yield may be low.)

Comparing yields at schools which have different systems of admissions is not comparing apples to apples but apples to oranges. Chicago, like a number of Ivy schools, has Early Action but it also has two – get that, TWO – Early Decision processes (!) the later one to catch Ivy + applicants who have been deferred. Students know they get a leg up for admission when they apply Early Decision –and while for some students it is an absolute choice, for many others it is a smart gamble, especially after deferral: they know that getting into an Ivy, especially HYP, or Stanford, is super difficult, so they go with a school they like where they make get a kick start as an applicant, even though they are required to attend if admitted. Once again Chicago offers that possibility TWICE, in two separate application periods within the same application year. The school fills a large part of its class with such students, AND of course these programs boost yield because the yield from these programs is 100!

HYP all have EARLY ACTION. When students apply and are admitted they are not hooked in. They can then go and apply to other schools knowing they have an admit to a wonderful school locked up, which a decent number do. When presented with two or three wonderful offers, they then make their decision later after visiting and comparing further.

Obviously, it is senseless to compare a school which has a 100% yield in Early Decision, where people are obliged to attend, with any school that has an Early Action plan, where after being admitted students can apply to other schools. The general public doesn’t focus on this - it does not make an easy sound bite - and ED schools use their “high yield” from admitted students obliged to attend to public relations advantage. But comparing ED and EA yields in this way is crazy.

BTW, this year Chicago, in an unusual move, seems to have determined not to release its admissions application or yield numbers until Fall, although it has done this happily in the past. And I quote: “The University of Chicago does not intend to release admissions numbers this spring for the Class of 2021. This includes the number of applicants and the acceptance rate.“

What is that all about? I have my own ideas.

Where did you get your belief that “Harvard beats Chicago head to head 7-3” on cross admits? I do not believe such information is reported anywhere. Admittedly my 10-1 was a sheer guess, but I would bet the farm I am closer than you. I do not know many students at all, period, who are cross admits and choose Chicago over an Ivy. Very few.

You say: “A football recruit with an offer from Chicago and Yale (Question: Yale in particular?)has the same number of reason to say yes to either school. This is an apples to apples decision from my points of view above.” Any student might prefer Chicago, I agree, but an “apples to apples decision for a football player” - or anyone else? –respectfully, No.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Response to an archived U Chicago 2021 Football Recruiting Class Message


Author:
IvyKnowledge
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Date Posted: 09:30:34 07/10/17 Mon

Harvard 71% - U of Chicago 29% - Cross-admit data is published by Parchment: http://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=University+of+Chicago&with=harvard

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Response to an archived U Chicago 2021 Football Recruiting Class Message


Author:
Observer15 (to IvyKnowledge)
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Date Posted: 11:46:11 07/10/17 Mon

Ah, yes, Parchment. Be advised:

Parchment is a transmitter of data and like all data collection it is limited by what it receives and is only as good as what it receives so it must be interpreted. Their data collection is heavily skewed to Midwestern high schools, which are way over represented. The denominator of cross admits for Chicago and Ivies is indubitably way smaller than the national figure. The 95% confidence interval is encouraging but the wide ranges confirm the small denominators and don’t do anything to account for regional differences.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Parchment ...


Author:
Observer
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Date Posted: 13:52:00 07/11/17 Tue

Their cross-admit stuff used to be far closer to "reality" (based on such glimpses of it as we have had) than it is today. I have asked many people why this is so. I think, as Observer 15 says, it is because their "reporting pool" has become less and less representative of the nation (and world) for a variety of reasons.

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