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Subject: 5 Year Trend


Author:
B Green
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Date Posted: 17:15:58 12/06/17 Wed

Is it fair to look at wins-losses during league play over the past 5 years as a predictor of future success, since every team outside of Columbia has had coaching stability during this timeframe? Or has everyone stepped up their game in recruiting similar talent and there will be more parity in the future across all teams.

See below for 2013-2017 wins/losses during league play:

Harvard: 27-8
Dartmouth: 23-12
Penn: 21-14
Princeton: 20-15
Yale: 20-15
Brown: 12-23
Cornell: 9-26
Columbia: 8-27 (but 8-13 under Bagnoli)

Interested in anyone's take on this.

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Replies:
[> Subject: Re: 5 Year Trend


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 19:12:48 12/06/17 Wed

I believe that the Ivy League is entering into a new era of parity and that the next five years will show a much smaller gap between the top three and bottom three teams. I also predict Yale will move into the top tier.

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[> [> Subject: Re: 5 Year Trend


Author:
Hyacinthum
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Date Posted: 20:48:09 12/06/17 Wed

#ITO

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: 5 Year Trend


Author:
bowwowwow
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Date Posted: 07:21:20 12/07/17 Thu

#ITO Dilly Dilly

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[> Subject: Re: 5 Year Trend


Author:
Sprint66
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Date Posted: 21:45:47 12/06/17 Wed

Son of Eli.....the Yale Bulldogs are the top tiered team this year as they won the Ivy League Championship outright and you have the best running back in the league for the next three years.

The issue with the Ivy League is the disparity in admissions and financial aide packages offered to recruits. Harvard, Yale, and Princeton are all two hundred years older than Cornell and your endowment has been fed by decades of "Old Money". Sure Cornell and Brown can match, but we're only getting "second pickings". The Ivy League aide formula needs to change so all eight schools are playing by the same set of rules. Unfortunately for us, Robin Harris loves HYP and could give a rats A... about the lowly five.

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[> [> Subject: Re: 5 Year Trend


Author:
Bengal
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Date Posted: 22:24:40 12/06/17 Wed

It was action by the Bush 41 Department of Justice's Antitrust Division that ended the overlap meetings and the colluding among the schools to even out financial aid packages among them.

Harvard enlisted then Sen. Kennedy, activated their then Board of Overseer Liddy Dole to get Minority Leader Bob Dole engaged, and tried to block the DOJ action. The effort largely failed.

Blame whoever satisfies your need to cite outside forces being responsible for Cornell's persistent football woes, but neither HYP nor the League had anything to do with it then or now. And H, at least, mounted a serious, if somewhat inept effort, to stop it at the outset. Maybe other schools tried to get their Congressional alumni/alumni connections engaged to stop it, I do not know. And today, I doubt any of the schools would risk the attention of DOJ in trying to go back to the old ways.

Princeton once went 20 years between titles, and the 1970s was the worst decade in P football history, so I do feel your pain. But as I think another poster once illustrated, Cornell football wasn't very good under the old financial aid system either. Cheers.

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[> Subject: Re: 5 Year Trend


Author:
ivyfbdad
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Date Posted: 14:13:55 12/07/17 Thu

In my exposure to the recruiting process, every Ivy stated to present any financial offer from another ivy and they would match that offer. How does the endowment of bigger schools impact offers if they all offer to match the highest bidder?

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[> [> Subject: Re: 5 Year Trend


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 18:30:57 12/07/17 Thu

Good point Ivyfbdad. Then it really comes down to school location, reputation, coaching and facilities. The last two factors are controllable. The AI also helps to even the playing field somewhat for 28 of the 30 recruits.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: 5 Year Trend


Author:
voy vey
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Date Posted: 18:42:54 12/08/17 Fri

"The AI also helps to even the playing field somewhat for 28 of the 30 recruits."

Agreed.

Looking at the above hypothetical (or not?) example of bands, Dartmouth can theoretically accept 9 players with AI's of 180 or below. Harvard can accept only 2. Those margins are where the less-endowed (pun not intended) schools can/should be focusing.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: 5 Year Trend


Author:
Football Fanatic (SonofEli Almost a HR)
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Date Posted: 06:31:30 12/09/17 Sat

Son of Eli nearly nailed it with his list of what matters when it comes to recruiting teen age boys that are talented fb players (and have DI options outside of the Ivy League).

Remember, these are teenagers. They often get wowed by the “love” the coach gives them during the campus and official visit. I would rank Eli’s criteria a little differently in terms of impact on highly sought recruits:

1) stadium and practice facilities (indoor)
2) locker room
3) school reputation (academically)*
4) position coach
5)head coach
6)culture/history of winning (league championships and nfl players)
7) weight room facilities and strength coach
8) uniforms, shoes etc
9) location

The above are how I would rank the factors on what can really make a difference in winning the recruiting war. Remember these are 17 and 18 year old boys and we are not just recruiting against the other Ivies.

I suspect MOST 3**talent do not view Ivy football as their initial #1 choice if seriously being recruited to play football. Therefore, #3 on my list gets lost in the shuffle until they start to focus on Ivy. When they reach the point of considering IVY, the school reputation definitely matters (HYPP have an inherent advantage in name recognition no doubt).Prior to that point, recruits are comparing the other factors above.

Gotta like your position coach as that is who you spend the most time with. Head coach too. The problem with coaches is they can leave or get fired after the player has been sugned, so don’t get too attached.

Location: urban vs non urban is probably the biggest factor, beyond that, who really has the time to explore the surrounding town? If location were so important, how do Youngstown State and North Dakota State recruit so well ( no disrespect intended for either school, but these are not typically thought of as destination cities)?

Locker rooms, player lounges and uniforms do matter to this generation. Old schoolers can embrace this reality or see their teams left behind (probably where I would start with most Ivy programs, followed by the weight room). #GetOffMyLawn

Hard to change stadium image quickly, but something needs to be done in most cases. Sorry, selling history and nostalgic memories to an 18 year old does not work when your stadium and practice facilities are a mess and the competition has “the shiny new ball”.

Winning football tradition. Important yes, but hard to create if you don’t already have it. Athletes want to win, and a pattern of success matters (where Youngstown and ND State get you). Only 4 chances to win a ring, so go where your chances are historically the best if that is important to the kid.

Soooo, if I were Brown and Cornell (building an Ivy football program) I’d focus on 2,7,8 first. #1 is harder to change for most schools, so just put “lipstick on the pig” for now and hire an experienced head coach that will be around while you build. He also has to be a great people relations person&salesman. #6 is what we are after, so can’t change that overnight.

Oh, and one other thing, make sure your fb recruiting website is current, cool and relevant to recruits. Nothing is worse than having out-of-date rosters and articles. You can leave the alumni site quaint and boring; we older alums don’t know how to use most of the new features anyway 😏

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[> [> Subject: Re: 5 Year Trend


Author:
bowwowwow
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Date Posted: 10:14:33 12/10/17 Sun

Agree with all of the above but also add playing time to the list. Stars want to contribute right away. Sitting 3rd or 4th on a depth chart because they are first years doesn't sound too appealing either. Varies by position of course.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: 5 Year Trend


Author:
Football fanatic
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Date Posted: 01:15:24 12/11/17 Mon

Good call about playing time. At schools outside the Ivy, most freshman would be redshirted to get stronger and learn the system, while maininintaing 4 years of eligibility. Generally speaking, players really only get 3 bites at the apple in the Ivy League (some skill positions and injuries excepted).

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