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Subject: "How Yale Lost Football"


Author:
remember it well (Eastern Sports Fan)
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Date Posted: 21:14:55 01/03/18 Wed
In reply to: Son of Eli 's message, "Re: Northwestern- An Alternative Model to the Ivy League" on 19:47:14 01/03/18 Wed

A worthwhile read from 11/4/2016 YDN.

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2016/11/04/football-a-division-decades-old/

For Eastern Sports Fan: My comments were about Yale's past attendance numbers being in the tens of thousands well beyond the "40s" even without The Game attendance numbers included. Perhaps "you're not reading very well these days" so here's Carm's quote from the above linked article.

"The atmosphere on game day at Yale also rivaled that of the larger schools. “The Bowl was a tremendous place, we were drawing really well then,” Cozza said. “The smallest attendance we had in the 60s or 70s would have been 35,000 or 40,000 We filled the Bowl [over 72,000] for Harvard, we’d have 56,000 for Dartmouth, 47,000 for Cornell. When we went to I-AA it definitely affected the attendance … we were not on major television as much. That probably hurt the league more than anything else.” The comparative dearth of other entertainment at the time, in addition to the NCAA’s monopoly on TV rights and policy of televising just one game a week, meant the student body attended the games en masse".

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: "How Yale Lost Football"


Author:
Football Fanatic (Question)
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Date Posted: 21:56:10 01/03/18 Wed

I really have no idea on this: how many D1 schools outside the Ivy League are non scholarship (don’t count for bowl status)?

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Non Scholarship Schools


Author:
DFW HOYA
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Date Posted: 07:00:47 01/04/18 Thu

I really have no idea on this: how many D1 schools outside the Ivy League are non scholarship (don’t count for bowl status)?

There are 12-- a total of 11 Pioneer schools and Georgetown from the Patriot.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: "How Yale Lost Football"


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 22:44:03 01/03/18 Wed

Other than the Ivy League it’s just the 11 Pioneer League schools.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: "How Yale Lost Football"


Author:
Football Fanatic
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Date Posted: 11:14:11 01/04/18 Thu

So basically there are only about 20 D1 schools the NCAA precludes from counting towards bowl eligibility? That is crazy, discriminatory or as someone else already said, a sign of apathy on the part of our conference. I am not sure I want Ivy football compared to Georgetown or the Pioneer schools in terms of on-the-field quality...aren’t those some of the same teams this board bashes when they are scheduled as our OOC opponents?

It would seem that this issue could be corrected fault easily through petition? Or do we provide all athletes a scholarship capped at $1 or set it equal to the financial aid package they otherwise qualify for(could be a problem since not all athletes receive aid)? Just making up suggestions, but there has to be a way of not being such a small minority that has these scheduling restrictions...if the Ivy League really wants to.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: "How Yale Lost Football"


Author:
Eastern Sports Fan
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Date Posted: 19:05:19 01/04/18 Thu

See related comment floating around this thread I made earlier. It was on purpose and intended to drive Ivy League into irrelevance.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: "How Yale Lost Football"


Author:
Football Fanstic
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Date Posted: 21:43:08 01/04/18 Thu

Eastern, I’d say they have been mostly successful, if that was indeed their goal. A spark of hope remains, but it’s only a spark at this point.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: "How Yale Lost Football"


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 20:39:19 01/04/18 Thu

Agreed. But the Ivy League Presidents took it lying down because they don’t like football. They would immediately petition the NCAA for a rule change to the FBS Bowl Counter Rules as they apply to the Ivy League if they cared at all about football. The truth is the presidents want Ivy League Football to be irrelevant.

However, I do have reason to believe that President Salovey is different. I think he really likes football judging from his enthusiastic behavior at games. The fact that he even goes is a big improvement from his predecessor Levin.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: "How Yale Lost Football"


Author:
Sprint66
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Date Posted: 22:45:27 01/10/18 Wed

I said many years ago on this site the move to I-AA or FCS in football has been a disaster for Ivy and other member schools. The fact is I-AA does not exist for any other college sport, so why football? We don't have it in basketball, baseball, hockey, lacrosse, track or any other sport..........why football? All I-AA ever did was chase our fans out of our stadiums. Unfortunately at schools like Cornell I doubt we'll even have football within the next ten years, as the program is nothing but a huge financial drain on our athletic department. Our new president Martha Pollack is more interested in promoting her political agenda than trivial things like athletics. The biggest sport today on the Cornell campus are drinking games.....seriously. Go Big Red!!!

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: In fairness, Sprint


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 07:05:18 01/11/18 Thu


The downward decline in Ivy attendance began in the 1970s, and predated the move to I-AA.

You want to argue that the move to I-AA accelerated the decline in attendance or made the declined permanent, go to town. But to suggest (as you have done repeatedly on this Board) that Ivy attendance was at peak levels in 1980, and didn't begin to decline until 1982 is simply not accurate.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: In fairness, Sprint


Author:
old blue
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Date Posted: 09:20:57 01/11/18 Thu

gentlemen; thought i would chime in on attendance and think mr go green is correct for the most part attendance for a majority of the ancient eight began to decline in the mid 1970's and decade later for our blue with the exception of the tiger and cantab clashes. move to minority status was indeed the major contributor to the decline.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: "How Yale Lost Football"


Author:
Memphis Bill
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Date Posted: 14:22:58 01/11/18 Thu

Concerning the decline in Ivy attendance, it is true that it was on the downswing throughout the 70's, prior to the downgrade to Div 1AA. At that time, the reasons for the decline were apparent: move to cooeducation at three of the four powers then at top of League, Yale, Princeton and Dartmouth, thus removing the "Big Weekend" scene with undergraduate population doubling due to influx of dates from girls schools; rise of youth sports disabling attendance of Ivy alum-parents in their 30's and 40's; and more diverse student bodies with fewer avid fans. Even so, the team with the top talent at that time, Yale, resisted those trends quite well, as Harvard game attendance from 1975-1981 exceeded what was the norm in the 50's and 60's (all those games in the Bowl were essentially sellouts), and Dartmouth attendance stayed north of 30,000 when those games were in the Bowl. Also, Navy game in 1981 drew over 40,000. The biggest drag on attendance was collapse of Princeton game as a major draw, caused by The Streak (which largely was caused by Bowen abandonment of Tiger football, a phenomenon I have previously commented on). The moral of this story is that teams succeeding in playing competitive mid-major style football like Yale, could still draw fans (and I think Harvard illustrates this as well). The supine attitude of Bowen, Bok and Giamatti to the 1 AA downgrade proved to be a devastating mistake from which we never have recovered.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: "How Yale Lost Football"


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 15:28:25 01/11/18 Thu

Giamatti wanted to further de-emphasize football and was more than happy to have the NCAA do the dirty work for him.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: "How Yale Lost Football"


Author:
Steve Mathiason
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Date Posted: 16:40:42 01/11/18 Thu

It is true that attendance was sliding in the 70's, but the addition of that tenth game enabled Ivies to schedule major and mid-major teams. They were just at the cusp of reversing that trend when the demotion took place.

Among the OOC games on the schedule just prior to the demotion were Army, Navy, Air Force, Boston College, Miami of Ohio, Cincinnati, Penn State, etc

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Even if we stayed in what is now FBS


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 18:06:50 01/11/18 Thu


The AI made us noncompetitive against several of those schools.

We got games against Northwestern, Hawaii and Cornell on the books after the I-AA move. The games were not close.

With the AI and without the enhanced financial aid packages that we enjoy today, we would have lost tons of relevance (and therefore attendance) in the 1980s even if we had stayed at FBS. I believe that our best case scenario would have been have been Army in their C-USA years.

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