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Subject: CU basketball against Princeton


Author:
cadyellow
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Date Posted: 10:23:07 01/13/18 Sat

Last night was a blowout, down by 30 at one point. Hopefully there will be signs of life against Penn tonite, otherwise it will be a LONGGGG season ahead....

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[> Subject: Re: CU basketball against Princeton


Author:
Boston Lion
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Date Posted: 13:21:47 01/13/18 Sat

The coaches need to drill Meisner in std cost-benefit analysis and press into his mind that whatever benefit he thinks might be gained from fouling twice in the first minute of a game, it will NEVER justify the costs. LettIng in a couple of scores doesn't hurt the team anywhere near as much as benching yourself.

He sat for 15 mins because of that, so our starting 5 never got started. Not saying that we would have won, but his loss was an artery cut. It was doubly a shame because just when we finally got Castlin back and could return to full strength, Meisner takes himself out of the game.

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[> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball against Princeton


Author:
cadyellow
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Date Posted: 13:59:29 01/13/18 Sat

I didn't catch game. Let's see if things change tonite with Meisner and Castlin working together. Not quite time to press the panic button, but I fear that we have lost some real momentum as a program. I would have thought our CIT championship (albeit a lesser tourney) recently would have really spiked national interest in recruiting impact players. Point guard Smith seems to be the only one. Faulds seems like he could turn into something. But I thought we would be riding the wave of one of our best seasons in CU history a couple of years back. How come our recent success did not make us a more attractive to more athletes? Seems like we have decent players, but the Ivy League has become incredibly competitive and teams like Princeton and Yale have forged ahead by keeping ahead of the curve. Good players are not enough to stay in the mix. We need some GREAT ones--more three star caliber players or we will be left high and dry and out of tournament for years to come. Engels obviously has proven himself with his upset win of Michigan not long ago, but I'm just wondering....Any thoughts? Everyone on the team is healthy now (except Killingsworth?), so let's see against Penn.

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[> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball against Princeton


Author:
Old Lion (Coaching)
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Date Posted: 15:29:20 01/13/18 Sat

I think we need to see if Engles has the right stuff. I am not convinced that his NJIT experience necessarily translates into Ivy success. Al Bagnoli started with a program in liquidation and has us in the upper echelons in football with another really strong recruiting class. So I don’t think it is an institutional problem. And having seen Pilling in action, if he doesn’t think that Engles is the right guy he will make a change. As far as this team is concerned, it makes no sense that we have played competitive games against national powers and yet have lost to some of the teams we have played so far, or that we were blown out so badly by Princeton. We have some talent in Smith, Meisner, Castlin and a few of the first years, but the whole seems to be much less than the sum of the parts. I am pretty sure that Kyle Smith would have done better with the same group.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball against Princeton


Author:
cadyellow
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Date Posted: 16:19:23 01/13/18 Sat

It might be valid that Engles has trouble translating to Ivy success, although he did coach as an assistant to Columbia before, so not sure. I agree that Kyle Smith would have us in a better position right now. We lost to Princeton with him only a couple of years ago in the last half second. I am hopeful your assessment is right about Pilling and that he does not waste time making the call. DA's like Murphy seem to hang on with losing coaches far too long to the point of no return.

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[> Subject: Re: CU basketball against Princeton


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 12:54:40 01/14/18 Sun

For the sake of context, Tigers laid 53 points on Cornell in the first half Saturday night, went into the break up by 34. With three frosh still improving week to week, they are going to terrorize a lot of folks at Jadwin from here out. Penn was lucky to get them at the Palestra in January.

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[> Subject: Re: CU basketball against Princeton


Author:
Big Dawg
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Date Posted: 17:55:32 01/14/18 Sun

You don't make an angel food cake out of gravel. John Wooden wouldn't have a winning record at this point with our talent.

Face it. We might have maybe 2-3 extra wins, but so what. As far as league play, we will be lucky to go 7-7. Very lucky. Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, and a split with Yale. My personal prediction is 5-9. We don't have the horses. Give the man a chance to bring in a couple of classes.

Coach must bring in the talent. In the meantime, make as much as possible with what he has. That "tournament" championship is worthless as a recruiting tool. The 20+ wins meant a lot more. So next year is when you should reasonably expect to see something, not before.

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[> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball against Princeton


Author:
Big Dawg
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Date Posted: 18:10:15 01/14/18 Sun

Addendum to above.

You do all understand, I hope, that the coach came on board in April of '16. Ergo, his direct recruiting efforts are all frosh this year. So unless you seriously expected a "Fab Four" reincarnation, you are getting the upperclass leftovers of the great migration from our 20+ win team, with a record to match.

I suggest you wait till next year before serious bitching.

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[> Subject: Re: CU basketball against Princeton


Author:
The Mountain Lion
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Date Posted: 09:27:45 01/15/18 Mon

Big Dawg is correct generally speaking about about the basketball recruiting situation, , but the lack of improvement of nearly all the players and what's is happening on the court this year and last seems to suggest that there are some coaching issues. that need to be dealt with if Columbia Basketball is going to be successful. Unlike football, this is not a situation where the preceding coach knew not what he was doing. Kyle Smith was a terrific game coach and took Columbia to a post-season tournament championship despite some devastating injuries. He was an excellent evaluator of talent and recruited some great under the radar guys such as Maodo Lo, Alex Rosenberg and Grant Mullins. And he certainly did not leave a bare cupboard for his successor as Mike Smith, Lucas Meisner, Kyle Castlin and Patrick Tape, among others, are talented players.

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[> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball against Princeton


Author:
Old Lion (Agreed)
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Date Posted: 13:38:18 01/15/18 Mon

Kyle Smith with the same talent would have had a better record at this point. He also brought passion to the sideline, something which seems totally lacking with Engles. And Smith knew how to coach defenses. This program was in good shape when Engles came in, and since the midpoint of the last Ivy season we have been on a slide.

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[> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball against Princeton


Author:
cadyellow
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Date Posted: 14:10:24 01/15/18 Mon

Agree about lack of passion on the sideline. Engles seems not to have any fire. (Of course if he was winning we not notice it). But players like Meisner and Hickman seem to have lost their way. Mike Smith and Adlesh seem to be the only consistent players.

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[> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball against Princeton


Author:
Dr. V
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Date Posted: 16:38:31 01/15/18 Mon

Funny, when Kyle was here there were complaints about his ranting and raving.

There is no basis for the claim that Kyle would have a better record with today's team. And, except for the screwup at the end of the first half against Penn in not guarding Brodeur, we actually played pretty good D in both games this weekend. We just couldn't hit baskets to save our lives.

Re cupboards being full or bare, there are no Lo's or Mullins's or Rosie's on this team except, of course, for Smith. Meisner is a great rebounder, but in the two games this weekend he shot 1 for 10; Tape was 2 for 7; and Castlin was 3 for 11. At least Castlin has an excuse: he's rusty from having missed so many games.

In today's game, you need at least 2 to 3 three point shooters on the floor at all times. Princeton has 3 to 4 and sometimes 4 to 5. Princeton shot 48% from beyond the arc; we shot 26%. Penn shot 36%; we shot 24%.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball against Princeton


Author:
Louise
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Date Posted: 17:05:49 01/15/18 Mon

In addition to his recent poor shooting %, Meisner took 6 shots in 32 minutes vs Penn.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball against Princeton


Author:
joiseyfan
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Date Posted: 17:56:17 01/15/18 Mon

Not entirely sure how giving up 12 threes and 52 points in the first 23 minutes at Princeton qualifies as good defense. ?

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball against Princeton


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 20:26:41 01/15/18 Mon

It sounds like you are saying there is no way to defend 3 pt shooting. I don't think many people would agree with that notion.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball against Princeton


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 22:19:30 01/15/18 Mon

Sorry, this post was in response to DrV not Joisey.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball against Princeton


Author:
Dr. V
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Date Posted: 19:44:09 01/15/18 Mon

I was at the game. The effort on D was there on our part, but when the opposing bigs are hitting 3's the way Princeton's bigs were, not a lot you can do. Gladson, 6'10", was 1 for 1; Much, 6'8", was 4 for 6 and Desrosiers, 6'7", was 4 for 5 from beyond the arc.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball against Princeton


Author:
Dr. V
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Date Posted: 11:08:16 01/16/18 Tue

This conversation seems to be going off of the rails. Engles has had one recruiting class and you're questioning his skills as a coach??? NJIT is a Division I school. It plays the same kind of schools that we play. Engles took it from 1-30 to several 20 win seasons. What in the world is there to question? He took an NJIT team into Ann Arbor and beat Michigan, which is coached by a future Hall of Fame coach, John Beilein.

The first years have shown flashes, as Stefanini did at Penn and Hanson did in an earlier game. Bibbs has been hurt. Bigs, i.e., the 6'10" and + players, tend to develop more slowly, but Faulds has shown he can play.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball against Princeton


Author:
Old Lion (First years)
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Date Posted: 19:59:19 01/15/18 Mon

Faulds was the highest rated incoming first year. Bibbs was also highly rated. And Stefanini and Hansen were supposed to be very good players. Yet other first years around the league are doing better. Were our guys overrated, or is it too soon to tell, or is it coaching?

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: CU basketball against Princeton


Author:
Lion1967 (Freshmen)
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Date Posted: 20:40:34 01/15/18 Mon

Like you said, we were supposed to have some good freshmen incoming this year. Faulds especially was supposed to be one of the best freshmen in the Ivy League. Players like Bibbs were also supposed to be important players for us. Despite this, other players in the league who were not rated as highly are performing much better. I think this is largely due to poor coaching and recruitment by Engels. Under Smith, I believe some of these players would have reached their potentials and been more successful players. I’m still not sure if Engels’ performance and skills at NJIT will translate to the Ivy League.

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