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Subject: Good point


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 09:16:32 01/17/18 Wed
In reply to: Ivy Patriot 's message, "Re: "Doc" Bonner decommits" on 21:42:01 01/16/18 Tue


Pretty sure no Ivy or Patriot will take him if he was an ED admit.

Otherwise, Dartmouth will be happy to return the favor with one of the other school's ED admits down the road. And the whole thing falls apart.

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Replies:
[> [> [> Subject: Perhaps not such a good point?


Author:
Diogenes (Go Green)
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Date Posted: 10:42:17 01/17/18 Wed

May a school force someone to attend against their wishes?

Would a college attempt to force someone to attend against their will?

Would other colleges boycott any student who applied early and changed their mind?

These students are, for the most part, 17, 18 and 19 years old. Are they going to be subjected to lawsuits, boycotts etc. if they have one of the many valid reasons for changing their mind regarding their choice of college?

Does the Ivy League (or anyone else) really want to penalize young people for changing their mind?

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[> [> [> [> Subject: The Ivy certianly will


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 10:58:38 01/17/18 Wed


I will be utterly flabbergasted if another Ivy or Patriot school accepts this fellow.

I doubt that Dartmouth will do the Joe Yukica thing and file a lawsuit to force an unwanted marriage. But that doesn't mean that the ED process is meaningless either.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: If Dartmouth can't, or will not, enforce the contract, why is anyone else required to honor it?


Author:
Diogenes (Go Green)
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Date Posted: 11:52:09 01/17/18 Wed

The gracious thing would be for Dartmouth to wish the young man well and "release" him from any obligations--even if those "obligations" are unenforceable or nonexistent. Some classy conduct seems in order.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Benefit of the bargain


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 12:22:22 01/17/18 Wed


Dartmouth has a regular decision process. If the kid isn't 100% committed to going to Hanover upon acceptance, he can apply regular decision like everyone else.

ED increases your chances of admission. But... you have to go there.

As for your question- the short answer is that if (say) Brown or Penn don't honor Dartmouth's ED policies, then why should Dartmouth honor Brown's or Penn's? Then the ED process would then become indistinguishable from ordinary EA or regular decision process. Who wants that?

I'm sure this kid will be fine. But my gut is that this kid ends up at a school that doesn't have a high overlap of applicants from Dartmouth. I doubt that (say) the University of Maryland will worry about pissing Dartmouth off by accepting the guy.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: If Dartmouth can't, or will not, enforce the contract, why is anyone else required to honor it?


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 12:28:14 01/17/18 Wed

I have always been under the impression that ivy schools have always "taken their medicine quietly" in such cases rather than try to enforce the "rules" in such cases. This impression has been anecdotally supported. http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=701468

And seriously, what ivy school would ever seek to enforce such a commitment - meaning legal action? This is a lawyer's concept of how to proceed - meaning totally unrealistic.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: As the thread you posted indicated


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 12:36:10 01/17/18 Wed


There are other ways schools can effectively enforce their ED policies short of litigation.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: As the thread I posted indicated


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 13:05:15 01/17/18 Wed

"When we were applying for my daughter, I was concerned we would be accepted ED but without getting enough financial aid. I mentioned my concern and they told me that they would release us from the contract in a case like that. Most colleges probably wouldn't press too hard if you don't want to go,..."

"For the record, in 1990, I declined an early decision offer and was sent a sternly worded letter. That was it."

"My grandson applied to both an early decision and an early action school. I think they both knew he was doing that."

"Where I work, we don't force compliance at all. There are always a handful of individuals who don't enroll after an early decision, we account for that in our enrollment planning. We never want one individual student that badly, whatever, who cares."

Unknown how many of these were ivy schools....

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Calvin, thanks for that thread and that link to an interesting message board


Author:
Diogenes
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Date Posted: 13:23:16 01/17/18 Wed


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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Perhaps not such a good point?


Author:
AsiaSunset
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Date Posted: 11:59:33 01/17/18 Wed

Don't have a clue what you guys are thinking. The switching between Ivies for ED FB players happens all the time. I just read an early commit OL named Conor Smith flipped from Harvard to Yale just a couple days ago.

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: If you say so, I believe you


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 12:14:54 01/17/18 Wed


I'm not recalling it happening to Dartmouth's ED commits though.

And my recollection is that Harvard does Early Action, not Early Decision. You can still go elsewhere under Harvard's EA program.

https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/apply/application-timeline/restrictive-early-action

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Perhaps not such a good point?


Author:
Diogenes (AsiaSunset)
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Date Posted: 12:53:15 01/17/18 Wed

Asia,

There is a difference between Early Action and Early Decision, but at the end of the day, what difference does it make? If someone doesn't want to attend your college, forget the legalities, be gracious, respect his wishes and do what you can to help him. Whether he wants to go to Cornell or Columbia for their top notch engineering programs, or Oklahoma for its football program, wish him well and do everything you can to help him. Isn't that the essence of Ivy sportsmanship and just plain decency?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Perhaps not such a good point?


Author:
observer
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Date Posted: 13:02:40 01/17/18 Wed

Ask Keenan Jeppesen ...

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Perhaps not such a good point?


Author:
AsiaSunset
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Date Posted: 13:41:56 01/17/18 Wed

Keenan Jeppersen was a potential transfer and is irrelevant in this discussion, but a small number of kids, athletes and non athletes are let out of these contractual ED commitments all the time. With regular students it often relates to finances or changed family circumstances. Sometimes with athletes it's a coaching change or simply a change of heart. The overwhelming number of ED admits, both athletes and non athletes, keep their commitment.

What athletes do is they submit multiple applications to multiple Ivies. They are held by the Athletic Dept who get the candidates pre screened by admissions. Then if they decide to commit early in the ED cycle, they simply have the fb dept check the ED box and submit them to admissions. Technically normal ED applicants aren't allowed to even have their high schools send transcripts to other schools.

If anybody thinks athletes and non athletes are treated similarly at Ivies they should know better by now. It's not the Power 5 but there are a lot of things that get handled differently.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Dio..


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 14:50:39 01/17/18 Wed


If that's the outlook the Ivy were to take, they would only offer regular admission to students.

There is zero point to having the ED option if the student was free to see if he could get in somewhere competitive or better and the Ivy school being cool with that.

I fully acknowledge that there is little the Ivy school can do if the guy wants to go somewhere else for whatever reason (close to home, where his girlfriend is going, etc.) that doesn't care about pissing the Ivy school off. If Bonner ends up at Maryland or Morgan State, best of luck to him.

But I expect Ivy and Ivy peer schools to respect the ED process. Otherwise, there is no point to ED.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Dio..


Author:
Bill
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Date Posted: 17:37:21 01/17/18 Wed

I agree 100%. Why bother? Commitment means nothing anymore.

Id think twice before going to Maryland. Aren't they on their 6th qb?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Dio..


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 19:49:28 01/17/18 Wed

Some people would think that means more opportunity to play.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Dio..


Author:
Bill
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Date Posted: 08:38:03 01/18/18 Thu

Being that he is committed to Air Force, its a moot point. However, I believe the turnover on Maryland Qbs is due to injuries. With the Qb emphasis on run first, typically equates to more injuries. RG3?

Congrats to Doc. Although I am not a fan of decommitting, not knowing his circumstances, I am grateful to anyone who serves this country.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: General MacArthur preached "duty, honor, country"...


Author:
Jack Hatfield
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Date Posted: 20:01:48 01/18/18 Thu

...to the West Point cadets. The people running the Air Force Academy? Not so much, at least where it concerns encouraging young men to honor their commitments. Maybe the legal status of pot in Colorado has clouded their moral clarity. Or maybe honor doesn't apply when football recruits are to be had.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Or...


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 14:39:06 01/19/18 Fri


Maybe Air Force sends the guys who renege on commitments to the prep school.

:)

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Air Force Prep is $75,000 cheaper than Choate


Author:
Diogenes
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Date Posted: 21:42:12 01/19/18 Fri


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Maybe he'll learn about these


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 09:46:01 01/20/18 Sat


https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/non%20sequitur

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