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Subject: IVY FOOTBALL


Author:
Walt Yale Blue
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Date Posted: 02:15:54 01/24/18 Wed

Princeton is now number 1 in football recruiting in the league and has a national rank of 103,

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[> Subject: Re: IVY FOOTBALL


Author:
Jerrylh
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Date Posted: 08:09:36 01/24/18 Wed

Thanks Walt
What I especially like about this class, is the number of linemen recruited, both defensive and offensive.
However, you can't be sure until they get on the field.
If you recall, Dudek wasn't even supposed to the be top running back recruit for Yale last year.

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[> Subject: Re: IVY FOOTBALL


Author:
Ivy Voyeur
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Date Posted: 11:38:13 01/24/18 Wed

What's your source -- are the other Ivies ranked?

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[> [> Subject: 247sports is lame


Author:
ungvar
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Date Posted: 12:09:52 01/24/18 Wed

I think he's referencing 247sports.com's commit lists, which are quite suspect for the Ivy League schools.

I've contacted 247sports three times this recruiting season to report 247-listed recruits who've committed to Columbia. Crickets. One remains on the Columbia offers list but hasn't been moved to Columbia Commits. The other two haven't made it to any of Columbia's lists. Apparently, they don't care about Div IAA schools or don't have the staff to respond to email.

I'll grant you that Princeton's got an impressive list this year. How it compares to the other Ivies, who knows.

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[> Subject: and


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 15:58:11 01/24/18 Wed

they still have Bonner listed as a D commit

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[> Subject: Re: IVY FOOTBALL


Author:
Roar Lion
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Date Posted: 18:41:08 01/24/18 Wed

247 has five Ivy classes ranked higher than the classes for James Madison or Richmond. Does that seem credible? Could Princeton and Yale have better classes than North Dakota State?

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[> [> Subject: Re: IVY FOOTBALL


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 19:40:15 01/24/18 Wed

You're not looking at the methodology. If you do, you will understand why they currently rank PU higher, and why it doesn't mean too much right now and there's no reason to draw long range conclusions.

They do a simple multiplication of the number of recruits times their number of stars. Obviously a team that currently shows only a few recruits will be ranked lower than a team with more recruits, even if its smaller number of recruits are individually graded higher.

So, PU with 13 "starred" recruits currently outranks North Dakota with 5 starred recruits and JMU with 2 starred recruits. Clearly that will change. Plus, many these FBS teams will be adding transfers and JC graduates.

On the other hand, it cannot be denied that PU is showing well versus some other teams with a comparable number of recruits.

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[> [> Subject: Star ratings


Author:
Ungvar
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Date Posted: 20:29:00 01/24/18 Wed

...if you buy their star rating system.

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[> Subject: Re: IVY FOOTBALL


Author:
Sprint66
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Date Posted: 22:15:43 01/24/18 Wed

Princeton is number one because they give full athletic scholarships. It's easy to win when you can "buy" your championships. Yeah I know Cornell is the poor dumb f..k of the Ivy League but at least we play by the rules.

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[> Subject: Re: IVY FOOTBALL


Author:
jerrylh
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Date Posted: 05:54:14 01/25/18 Thu

If Princeton actually gives athletic scholarships, then why isn't their football team head and shoulders better any other Ivy team (unless you are saying that Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth and Penn are also giving athletic scholarships). You should also remember than Cornell did quite nicely against Princeton this year.

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[> [> Subject: Re: IVY FOOTBALL


Author:
M3
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Date Posted: 06:50:50 01/25/18 Thu

From WSJ article on Brevin White 4*

"In either sport, what has historically made attracting top-notch players to these schools difficult isn’t just the inferior facilities or lack of nationally televised games. Unlike almost every other Division I program, the Ivies do not offer athletic scholarships.

Instead, Ivy League schools only offer need-based financial aid to students. And they have stepped up those programs in recent years. For example, students in Princeton’s class of 2020 with family incomes up to $140,000 typically pay no tuition, according to the university. This applies to all students, not just athletes."

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[> [> [> Subject: Don't bother...


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 07:21:12 01/25/18 Thu


This point has been explained to Sprint dozens of times. He just doesn't get it.

Then again, it took him about five years to understand that the Ivy football teams just can't "drop to Division III" without taking the rest of the athletic department with them. (For those not familiar with NCAA rules, please google "Dayton Rule"). He hasn't make that complaint in a while, so perhaps he understands it now.

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[> [> Subject: Re: IVY FOOTBALL


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 08:11:12 01/25/18 Thu

Sprint can't name a rule that prohibits giving a scholarship to any student whose family income is less than a certain amount.

He has always been a big advocate for reducing the financial burden of attending an ivy, such as by attending a community college the first couple of years, so it's odd he would oppose schools providing a scholarship to any student who is also an athlete.

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[> [> [> Subject: Better endowment returns would help expanding the scholarship base


Author:
remember it well
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Date Posted: 11:09:47 01/25/18 Thu

Seems the Ivys just can't accept the notion that indexing is the better alternative to the use of "highly touted" investment managers. Not to pick on the woeful returns of Harvard's endowment but these two articles are certainly disconcerting.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/harvard-endowment-chief-pushed-for-steeper-devaluation-of-assets-1513252800?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=20

https://www.wsj.com/articles/college-endowments-rose-12-2-in-fiscal-2017-reversing-decline-1516856461

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[> Subject: Re: IVY FOOTBALL


Author:
Sprint66
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Date Posted: 16:26:27 01/25/18 Thu

Hey I don't mean to sound so negative but when our football team hasn't had a winning record coming up on 15 years, it gets pretty depressing when Cornell loses recruits due to Ivy League differences in financial aide. Case in point the Patriot League has a set number of scholarships or merit aide packages they offer for each school, where in the Ivy League it's a free for all. Sure schools like Cornell can "match" but all we're getting is second pickings. Of course Robin Harris office is based in Princeton I have said for years she could give a rats A... about schools like Cornell. I am sure she enjoys our 3-7 records year in and year out.

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[> [> Subject: Re: IVY FOOTBALL


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 17:42:39 01/25/18 Thu

"Cornell loses recruits due to Ivy League differences in financial aide."

"Sure schools like Cornell can 'match'..."

So if they can match, there isn't a financial difference.

And if they don't match, there are no "Ivy League differences", there is only a (self-imposed) Cornell difference.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: IVY FOOTBALL


Author:
Sr Punter
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Date Posted: 19:57:21 01/25/18 Thu

Sprint seems right, if you have to match, you are sitting in the back seat.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: IVY FOOTBALL


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 21:03:07 01/25/18 Thu

I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole because I recognize people have their views that are resistant to change, but apart from the inconsistency of his comments per the quotes above, you are arguing a different point.

I believe you are saying Cornell (and presumably Brown) are at a disadvantage because they can only match and not initiate. I submit that first, this is a self-imposed disadvantage because the schools could establish whatever financial aid limits they want - it's a question of priorities - and second, assuming they don't want to or "cannot" adopt comparable financial aid terms and thus can only match, that might mean they are only reactive but they can still choose to meet whatever HYPPenn offer, thus contrarny to Sprint's claim there is no difference in aid amounts. It's a question of strategic benefit of timing, which is different than being unable to offer the same amount.

I further submit that if a player wants Cornell or Brown, he is not going to sign up with H, Y, etc. until he finds out whether C/B will match.

Finally, I submit that no one here has a firm grasp of exactly how many players might have been lost in this process, but rather are relying heavily on a few anecdotes and/or word of mouth and the examples are not universally true. For example Cornell's Luke Falk was intent on going to Cornell, not HYPPe, before switching to WSU ?which was a loss for all of us in the IL).

Not to mention, as someone pointed out, Cornell beat Princeton last year, so how disadvantaged were they?

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[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Agree to a point


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 07:34:24 01/26/18 Fri


I agree that at least some of the "financial disadvantages" Cornell and Brown face reflect institutional decisions, and hence, within some of their own control.

But I don't think its fair to cite Cornell's victory over Princeton and question how disadvantaged can Cornell be? The Oakland A's beat the Yankees and Angels every now and then. But everyone agrees that they are at a disadvantage.

If you want my opinion (and I know you value it so much), you'd be better of wondering why Dartmouth is doing more than fine against Yale and Princeton (ok, Harvard is another story), and also having their way with Cornell if Dartmouth doesn't have the financial advantages of HYP.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Agree to a point


Author:
Son of Eli
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Date Posted: 07:39:47 01/26/18 Fri

Please tell us Dartmouth's secret. In my opinion it's mainly due to Teevens and facilities.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: We do a lot of "Moneyball" moves


Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 08:15:41 01/26/18 Fri


People can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Jared Gerbino had tons of offers. But Teevens said "I think that guy might be a good wildcat QB."

And he ends up single-handedly beating Penn and Princeton for us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyvu1nWjOlI

:)

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: so


Author:
holtsledge
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Date Posted: 20:56:02 01/26/18 Fri

did your son wind up at one of the evil empire schools (HYPP) or the greatest college in New Hampshire, wherever he did I wish him luck

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Agree to a point


Author:
New Dad
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Date Posted: 12:18:47 01/26/18 Fri

I'll give you a real world example. My kid was recruited by most of the Ivy schools. His recruiter at Dartmouth stated very early in the process that Dartmouth "would not lose him because of money", and would use the financial aid rubric from Yale or Princeton (Harvard didn't really recruit him), whichever worked out best for us. They were consistent about that throughout. They never asked him to prove "recruiting interest", show the pre reads we eventually had done at other schools, none of that. Cornell by contrast didn't bring up matching until I raised the issue, and then wanted a copy of the pre read we wanted matched, copies of recent personal e mails or correspondence from the school, etc. None of that was really a problem, but it made the process longer at Cornell. It also made the guy writing the checks (me) wonder a bit about how aid would be handled two or three years down the road when my kid was no longer the shiny new toy.

Did the financial aid process determine where my son decided to play? I don't believe so. But it is inarguable that the non HYP schools have an extra hurdle to deal with in recruiting. How the schools handle that I think can tell you a bit about how the program runs in general. I think Dartmouth (Penn too) handled things well by being aggressive and dealing with matching directly and early. Both ended up on my kid's "short list". Cornell and Columbia (pre Bagnoli) did not and neither ended up on his list. Obviously there are a ton of other factors that goes into this, and I don't mean to over state it. But I do think it is part of the decision making process for a lot of kids/families.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Agree to a point


Author:
Calvin
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Date Posted: 11:34:51 01/26/18 Fri

I don't spend time wondering about Dartmouth (although perhaps interesting that it's endowment is about $1.5 B less than Cornell's and they still play competitive football).

One or two of its alums, maybe.

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[> Subject: Re: IVY FOOTBALL


Author:
TigerFan
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Date Posted: 18:26:32 01/31/18 Wed

Take Kanoff as an example. Was the best player in the league at Princeton on an athletic scholarship? No. His dad is head of investment banking at Jeffries. Kanoff didn't get a dime of financial aid. Paid full boat.

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